Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Under-age training misconduct

1…6791112…17

Comments

  • #242
    Bonzo Delaney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Bonzo Delaney


    The one good thing to come of this is as Tell me how touched on is that there can't of been a mentor or club official or club member that hasn't read this article by now. At least every mentor dealing with underage groups will check themselves myself included when approaching underage groups be it in a positive manner and also a negative manner which would cover a dealing with a child's bad behaviour when under your supervision. Which is every mentors nightmare.


  • #243
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    danganabu wrote:
    The juvenile club in its entirety has been sespended, thats over 300 young players being deprived of games, of course they will be driven to other sports.


    Which is entirely the fault of the individuals involved with the running of the club.


  • #244
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Which is entirely the fault of the individuals involved with the running of the club.

    I'm not sure anyone has suggested otherwise :confused:


  • #245
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    danganabu wrote:
    I'm not sure anyone has suggested otherwise


    I believe it was said 300 kids can no longer play and maybe lost to other sports, entirely the fault and behaviour of the club in Athenry.


  • #246
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    danganabu wrote: »
    You have used this phrase ''bully the complainants'' in almost every post you have posted here, you seem very certain that their was some sort of campaign against these parents, based solely on their and PK's account of events where no right to reply has been afforded to the club and the relevant officials.

    Croke Park's official findings makes no reference what so ever to bullying.

    runawaybishop referenced the statement.

    The statement highlighted the bad behaviour of the club members who challenged the complainants who had children present at the second meeting in the hotel.

    The very fact that the complainant parents were isolated by having a meeting of parents not involving them to rally support was basically bullying.

    Now you can try spin it any way you want, but if I, or I would bet most right thinking people, were met and challenged by the other parents and club officials as I and my child went into to speak to an enquiry I would find it as a type of bullying.

    Does using the word intimidatory make it any less because that was alluded to in the statement.

    BTW had the enquiry not told the club to keep this under wraps whilst they investigated ?
    The investigative committee had emphasised the importance of confidentiality at the first hearing, but Athenry officials decided to throw that all out the window and invite all the other parents to a meeting about the issue.
    danganabu wrote: »
    Apologies for the confusion my intention was to highlight the fact there was no mention of orchastrated or systematic bullying on behalf of the club itself. Bullying in my mind is a very very serious accusation.

    It was very much orchestrated, because they got other parents and club members to be present in the hotel foyer as the complainants and witnesses were about to go into the enquiry hearing.

    I am beginning to despair that there are a lot more Athenry's out there.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Advertisement
  • #247
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,025 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    The similarities between this and what Maurice McCabe had to put up with are telling.

    For some, unless there's video proof of someone saying "I want you to bulky them", they refuse to believe it.

    This mightn't have been holding them by the ankles with their head in the toilet bullying but the holding of a meeting without the complainants present at which their story was derided was at the very least, passive aggressive and unfair to them. In my view. And it seems the view of GAA hierarchy.


  • #248
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    danganabu wrote: »
    The whole article is a rant and if that's not rambling I suggest Mr Kimmage go back and do a refresher course on journalism.

    That's a bit of a limp effort at pointing out what parts in particular are a rant.
    If you really believe that the "whole article is a rant" then you're saying the quotes by people at the meeting are also a rant.
    C'mon be a bit more specific.


  • #249
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    danganabu wrote: »
    The juvenile club in its entirety has been sespended, thats over 300 young players being deprived of games, of course they will be driven to other sports.



    Dunno what your logic is though... just say there's nothing to see here and let them carry on swearing at kids and requesting their sole presence in changing rooms!
    What would you have liked to happen?


  • #250
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    danganabu wrote: »
    I'm not sure anyone has suggested otherwise :confused:

    Actually there have been a few suggesting otherwise on here and in the article.


  • #251
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Stoner wrote: »
    I'd imagine the logic is clear clear enough. Why punish the kids and drive them away. They did nothing wrong, other sports benefit.

    I think there's a thing called the greater good! The club was suspended because there was stuff to sort out. In cases of child protection I think it's good practice not to leave people with complaints against them in situ (whether there's any substance or not!).

    Stoner wrote: »
    Reminds me of a joke my father told me years ago back when milkmen used horses and carts.

    A man comes home from work early to find the milk cart and horse parked outside his house.

    He sneaks into the house and into the bedroom to find the milkman and his wife going at it.

    He took his broken heart down to the pub to drown his sorrows and told his friends about it.

    A friend asked "What did you do to the milkman, did you give him a hiding?"

    "No" said the man, "but I gave his horse a right kick in the boll**x"

    Ok I see the humour there... although it would have been funnier with this ending:
    A friend asked "What did you do to the milkman, did you give him a hiding?"

    "No" said the man, "but to get back at him I f****d his horse"

    But this isn't funny Benny Hill times.

    This could have been avoided if proper child protection practices were adhered to and the guy stopped swearing at the kids (which was against GAA protocol too).
    But it was allowed to continue, so they are where they are.

    If it takes a season off for the club to get their house in order, then I think it might prevent adults from acting the numpty in future. Small price to pay.


  • Advertisement
  • #252
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,207 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    ChippingSodbury wrote: »
    The sanction at the moment is extremely severe (and on the wrong parties i.e. the kids) but sometimes, this is a good way to handle the situation. What one would hope is that there will be a clear-out of the existing hierarchy and a willingness of new parents/ adults to get involved who may have been not so inclined beforehand due to the incumbents. This will get sorted, kids will play hurling and football: there may be a temporary dip in numbers but I've no doubt it will be sorted albeit with different people at the helm.
    It is extremely difficult to get people involved in clubs. If anything this article and resulting outcomes will make it less likely for people to become involved in sports clubs in general.


  • #253
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    I believe it was said 300 kids can no longer play and maybe lost to other sports, entirely the fault and behaviour of the club in Athenry.

    Yes, yes and Yes, what is it exactly you are trying to say :confused: Which one of those three facts are you claiming anyone disputed.


  • #254
    Stoner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,952 ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    evolving_doors wrote:
    I think there's a thing called the greater good! The club was suspended because there was stuff to sort out. In cases of child protection I think it's good practice not to leave people with complaints against them in situ (whether there's any substance or not!).


    As in most cases people want the perpetrator punished. I don't see any greater good in banning the kids, but I guess that's is the punishment they can and did hand out


  • #255
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Dunno what your logic is though... just say there's nothing to see here and let them carry on swearing at kids and requesting their sole presence in changing rooms!
    What would you have liked to happen?

    My point is that the people that are ultimately being punished are not those that committed any offence............its really not rocket science :D:D


  • #256
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Actually there have been a few suggesting otherwise on here and in the article.

    I must have missed them, I dont recall anyone in this thread exonerating the club. If you could throw up the quotes I would very much appreciated it.


  • #257
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    That's a bit of a limp effort at pointing out what parts in particular are a rant.
    If you really believe that the "whole article is a rant" then you're saying the quotes by people at the meeting are also a rant.
    C'mon be a bit more specific.

    I guess that the analysis and rating of an article is very much a subjective practice, but to this readers eye its a steaming pile of horse sh*t which is a shame becasue amidst all the bluster and woefully structured story a hugely important and significant message is somewhat lost.

    I have spoken to a number of people about the article over the last few days and almost to a person they have said they were left with more questions than answers and had to re-read the article a number of times to fully comprehend what exactly Kimmage was trying to say, Kimmage trys a little too hard when there was really no need. The Orwelian quote just about sums him up.


  • #258
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    danganabu wrote:
    My point is that the people that are ultimately being punished are not those that committed any offence............its really not rocket science


    As our American friends would say, 'unavoidable collateral damage'. It's a pity on the kids but how you would propose sanctioning the club for it's behaviour?


  • #259
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,025 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    danganabu wrote:
    I guess that the analysis and rating of an article is very much a subjective practice, but to this readers eye its a steaming pile of horse sh*t which is a shame becasue amidst all the bluster and woefully structured story a hugely important and significant message is somewhat lost.

    I have spoken to a number of people about the article over the last few days and almost to a person they have said they were left with more questions than answers and had to re-read the article a number of times to fully comprehend what exactly Kimmage was trying to say, Kimmage trys a little too hard when there was really no need. The Orwelian quote just about sums him up.

    That's his style. Always is. You don't like it, that's fine.
    He always is a marmite kinda guy.

    Any holes in the story are relating to the clubs behavior, in my view.


  • #260
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    As our American friends would say, 'unavoidable collateral damage'. It's a pity on the kids but how you would propose sanctioning the club for it's behaviour?

    I agree with you thats its a very difficult situation and to be perfectly honest I dont really know what they most ideal solution is, but it doesn't stop it being wrong that 350 innocent kids are being punished for a couple of foolish, ignorant committee members. Perhaps it would have been more pertinent to hand out lenghty/life bans to those that were specifically found guilty of wrong doing and force the club to clean house.


  • #261
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Tell me how wrote: »
    That's his style. Always is. You don't like it, that's fine.
    He always is a marmite kinda guy.

    Any holes in the story are relating to the clubs behavior, in my view.

    I agree fully but that was my original point that Kimmage was not the best fit for this story imo. There should be no one even talking about the author in a case like this, but of course that wouldnt suit PK.


  • Advertisement
  • #262
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,025 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    danganabu wrote:
    I agree fully but that was my original point that Kimmage was not the best fit for this story imo. There should be no one even talking about the author in a case like this, but of course that wouldnt suit PK.

    I'm not so sure. I think people often use that argument to discount his message/article. They say he's just saying it for attention. Such as the time he spoke about drugs in rugby. It was all "that's just Kimmage looking for attention again". I don't think so.

    I am biased on this. I think we need journalists like Paul to look in to the dark corners.


  • #263
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    danganabu wrote: »
    I agree fully but that was my original point that Kimmage was not the best fit for this story imo. There should be no one even talking about the author in a case like this, but of course that wouldnt suit PK.

    The only ones ****ing on about the author seem to also be seeing the club as fairly innocent. Funny that.


  • #264
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    danganabu wrote:
    I agree with you thats its a very difficult situation and to be perfectly honest I dont really know what they most ideal solution is, but it doesn't stop it being wrong that 350 innocent kids are being punished for a couple of foolish, ignorant committee members. Perhaps it would have been more pertinent to hand out lenghty/life bans to those that were specifically found guilty of wrong doing and force the club to clean house.


    Not wanting to be callous but as pointed out by another poster. The action the governing body ie the GAA sent out will concentrate a lot of minds not just in Athenry. Again the kids will suffer for a short time but it is completely unavoidable.


  • #265
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    The only ones ****ing on about the author seem to also be seeing the club as fairly innocent. Funny that.

    Again can you please point out who or where anyone has said that the club was innocent, please stop making shi* up. Also not sure what exaclty you find funny about this whole episode.


  • #266
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,523 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    danganabu wrote: »
    Again can you please point out who or where anyone has said that the club was innocent, please stop making shi* up. Also not sure what exaclty you find funny about this whole episode.

    Loads of thinly veiled posts, some not even veiled, that the author has an agenda, that the parents are just pricks, that the club shouldn't have gotten in trouble, the club had no opportunity to respond, people strangely unable to read the article to see clear statements and outright denying facts.

    Let me rephrase. It's not funny, its logically falacious and disingenuous - just like the club rep on the call transcription.


  • #267
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Loads of thinly veiled posts, some not even veiled, that the author has an agenda, that the parents are just pricks, that the club shouldn't have gotten in trouble, the club had no opportunity to respond, people strangely unable to read the article to see clear statements and outright denying facts.

    Let me rephrase. It's not funny, its logically falacious and disingenuous - just like the club rep on the call transcription.

    You inferred that I said the club was fairly innocent. Are you retracting that??


  • #268
    Wombatman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    danganabu wrote: »
    I guess that the analysis and rating of an article is very much a subjective practice, but to this readers eye its a steaming pile of horse sh*t which is a shame becasue amidst all the bluster and woefully structured story a hugely important and significant message is somewhat lost.

    I have spoken to a number of people about the article over the last few days and almost to a person they have said they were left with more questions than answers and had to re-read the article a number of times to fully comprehend what exactly Kimmage was trying to say, Kimmage trys a little too hard when there was really no need. The Orwelian quote just about sums him up.

    For better or worse I can understand the actions of the parents and the club officials. What I can't understand is why a professional journalist can't write a complete balanced story, without all the unnecessary hyperbole and so many unanswered questions. I expect when the dust settles the article, as presented, will be far more damaging than constructive.

    By contrast, the quality of the journalism in the following story highlights how a well researched, informative, balanced and controversial article can be presented without all the drama and junior cert histrionics. The click bait headline in the Indo piece speaks volumes.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/media-and-marketing/leslie-this-storm-will-pass-denis-the-inm-controversy-1.3460850


  • #269
    Road-Hog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,412 ✭✭✭Road-Hog


    Does anyone know what kimmage’s motivation is here other than trying to get readers attention. Is he anti gaa by nature or is he trying to just fill his column on a Sunday/weekend that has little else going on sport wise. my biggest issue/concern would be the demoralizing of the children by being sworn at and being taken into a room by an adult and bring told that they would never wear the athenry jersey again rather than any personal danger they were in by being alone with an adult.....?


  • #270
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Wombatman wrote:
    For better or worse I can understand the actions of the parents and the club officials. What I can't understand is why a professional journalist can't write a complete balanced story, without all the unnecessary hyperbole and so many unanswered questions. I expect when the dust settles the article, as presented, will be far more damaging than constructive.

    Wombatman wrote:
    By contrast, the quality of the journalism in the following story highlights how a well researched, informative, balanced and controversial article can be presented without all the drama and junior cert histrionics. The click bait headline in the Indo piece speaks volumes.


    Classic example of playing the man and not the ball. Well done.


  • Advertisement
  • #271
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Road-Hog wrote: »
    Does anyone know what kimmage’s motivation is here other than trying to get readers attention. Is he anti gaa by nature or is he trying to just fill his column on a Sunday/weekend that has little else going on sport wise.quote]


    From this article there is no inference at all that Kimmage has an anti GAA agenda. Its quite clear who is at fault here, and it ain't the kids, their parents or Croke Park HQ.


Advertisement