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Under-age training misconduct

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 479 ✭✭ rgace


    "our son and another player were asked to stay back in the dressing room by John Cloonan. John shoved the door out, and at this point our son and the other player were on their own in the dressing room with John. What happened next is as follows: John Cloonan told our son and the other player that they "got a jersey to play today, but it would be the last time they would get an Athenry jersey"."

    These were 10 year old children, what a complete gobshíte.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭ evolving_doors


    The club were trying to close ranks and fob it off.
    Enter Paul kimmage :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,449 ✭✭✭✭ lawred2


    rgace wrote: »
    "our son and another player were asked to stay back in the dressing room by John Cloonan. John shoved the door out, and at this point our son and the other player were on their own in the dressing room with John. What happened next is as follows: John Cloonan told our son and the other player that they "got a jersey to play today, but it would be the last time they would get an Athenry jersey"."

    These were 10 year old children, what a complete gobshíte.

    Billy big balls bullying kids

    Probably referred to as a legend about town


  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭ krazyklown


    Some serious insinuations there. Sad to read. I assume the angle portrayed by the indo is accurate as they would hardly run a story of such a serious nature without verification. I hadn't heard the content portrayed here, but I had heard anecdotally that the football side of the club get treated miserably (allegedly). The attitude of the exec is alarming. Whatever about a guy doing a solo run and acting inappropriately, the exec come across very poorly. It's almost exactly what's happened to the garda whistle-blower... They complain locally but issue isn't taken seriously. They escalate and the club hierarchy circle the bandwagons and attempt to discredit the complaintants. I can imagine the atmosphere there is toxic with all of this going on, small area like that.
    In another way I can see how the exec are in a very difficult position. It's so hard to get help running the club, I don't doubt the two guys do a huge amount, and probably feel a certain amount of ownership. The incident in the dressing room sounds sinister. That guy shouldn't be let near kids, he sounds like a bully.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭ big_drive


    Interesting read.
    Easy to see why it’s hard to get volunteers in clubs , it’s dangerous these days. You could be accused of anything, often falsely

    I believe the club could handle it better but I think you’d need to know the parents involved to fully know. Some parents nowadays are awkward and difficult to deal with

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldn’t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. I’m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident

    Overall I’d be falling on the side of the club from what I’ve read but feel they need to improve a few things and let it be a lesson to everyone else out there in clubs to cover yourself in every situation


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  • Registered Users Posts: 789 jimd2


    big_drive wrote: »
    Interesting read.
    Easy to see why it’s hard to get volunteers in clubs , it’s dangerous these days. You could be accused of anything, often falsely

    I believe the club could handle it better but I think you’d need to know the parents involved to fully know. Some parents nowadays are awkward and difficult to deal with

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldn’t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. I’m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident

    Overall I’d be falling on the side of the club from what I’ve read but feel they need to improve a few things and let it be a lesson to everyone else out there in clubs to cover yourself in every situation

    Hmmm, I read the full article and would not be coming down on the side of the club on this. I do agree that there were mistakes made all round letting the younger guys move up to under 14 but the circling of the wagons and obfuscation from the club cannot be condoned.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,928 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    Paul Kimmage is a real journalist. And a very good one at that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,928 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    big_drive wrote:
    Overall I’d be falling on the side of the club from what I’ve read but feel they need to improve a few things and let it be a lesson to everyone else out there in clubs to cover yourself in every situation

    I agree that stories can be twisted. And that some parents can be unfairly argumentative.

    But, the clubs behavior in inviting other parents to a meeting and then posting a false statement on the outcome of the proceedings was attempting to influence and twist events as much if not more so then any action by the complainants.

    Also, a letter signed by 16 parents that the atmosphere wasn't ideal is quite telling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,199 ✭✭✭ Ardent


    big_drive wrote: »
    Interesting read.
    Easy to see why it’s hard to get volunteers in clubs , it’s dangerous these days. You could be accused of anything, often falsely

    I believe the club could handle it better but I think you’d need to know the parents involved to fully know. Some parents nowadays are awkward and difficult to deal with

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldn’t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. I’m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident

    Overall I’d be falling on the side of the club from what I’ve read but feel they need to improve a few things and let it be a lesson to everyone else out there in clubs to cover yourself in every situation

    Whatever about which side of these stories you believe, you can't excuse the club's behaviour in dealing with the complaints - for example, rallying support at an impromptu meeting to which the complainants were not invited. What were they trying to achieve there? Is that how you run a club?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,602 ✭✭✭ Hitman3000


    big_drive wrote:
    I believe the club could handle it better but I think you’d need to know the parents involved to fully know. Some parents nowadays are awkward and difficult to deal with


    So despite reading the full article, you believe it's the parents whom may be the problem?
    Having been the parent of a child who picked up a hurl at 4 and dropped it at 13 because of the crap he and his fellow players dealt with this behaviour is not exclusive to Athenry.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭ Gravelly


    Kimmage is one of a very, very small number of real journalists in Ireland. In fact, Gemma O'Doherty is the only other one that springs to mind.

    I've coached underage and youth in both football and soccer for years, and this article angers me a lot. I've come across the attitude displayed by so many coaches in both codes. There are some coaches that are in coaching either for the glory of it, or to promote theirs and others kids. This is a simple fact. I've seen teams with a poisonous atmosphere around them, where winning was all (unless little Jimmy the nephew needed to get on the team, then winning became secondary), and where most of the players were miserable most of the time. I know of dozens of very good players who ended up dropping out of sport because the coach they had either didn't know what he was doing, or was deliberately excluding them for nefarious reasons. One of the reasons I gave up GAA coaching was because of this attitude, as it is nearly impossible to get a GAA club to take a complaint against a "good club man" seriously. It can be problematic in soccer too, but usually it isn't as bad (mainly dues to the fact that GAA clubs often have lads that are the third, fourth or fifth generation of the family involved, whereas that's not as common in soccer, and there is far more of an omerta culture in the GAA than in soccer).


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,337 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Weepsie


    big_drive wrote: »

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldn’t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. I’m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident

    This they can, and parents can be the biggest nightmares for teachers becasue of what their darlings might have done.

    But GAA (and Soccer etc) clubs around the country have the odd bully who thinks it's okay to treat underage players like they are inter county stars. They've a win at all cost mentality and suck the fun out of it for kids. Some of the parent on the sidelines don't help either.

    For all the good volunteers, who give up their time and try to let them enjoy it, there's the occasional prat more worried about their own legend and winning whatever they can at the end of the day.


    Edit: Gravelly said it better!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,724 ✭✭✭ nice_guy80


    Pity he wouldn't do a piece on all the money being got by private boarding schools in South Dublin to renovate their private sports grounds when other clubs in rural Ireland can't afford to fix showers or mower to the pitch


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,928 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    nice_guy80 wrote:
    Pity he wouldn't do a piece on all the money being got by private boarding schools in South Dublin to renovate their private sports grounds when other clubs in rural Ireland can't afford to fix showers or mower to the pitch

    If he did, some would say it was a pity that he didn't do a piece on allegations of bullying amongst underage GAA clubs....


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭ The_Honeybadger


    I really can’t see how anyone would take the side of the club here. Whatever the facts are, the kids and parents involved deserved a fair hearing. The attempted whitewash by the club officials and the ordeal at the hotel is shameful quite frankly. The instigators have no business running a sweet shop let alone a sports club with a duty of care to children.

    I too can see how hard it is to get people to volunteer for things, that does not mean that bullying, intimidation and foul language in the course of training and mentoring children should be swept under the carpet. If even half of what is in the article is true, that man should not be training kids.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 Squatter


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    Pity he wouldn't do a piece on all the money being got by private boarding schools in South Dublin to renovate their private sports grounds when other clubs in rural Ireland can't afford to fix showers or mower to the pitch


    Translation: "look over there - I don't want you looking under this stone"

    Anyway, that kind of begrudging article is the preserve of the SIndo's Gene Kerrigan so I assume that the excellent Paul Kimmage didn't want to stray into a fellow journalist's specialist area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭ Bonniedog


    Kimmage lives in hope of finding some major scandal in the GAA that will revive his fortunes. Thousands of words about something that concerns unacceptable behaviour by some individuals in a club. Something the club ought to have sorted out in a better manner. Hardly the basis for a verbose feature in a Sunday newspaper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭ TCDStudent1


    Taking an extract from the report:
    This compassion for the respondents was a response, curiously, that had not been extended to any of the complainants, who all say they were neither invited to the meeting, nor asked how they were feeling, and whatever the initial intention, it wasn't long before the gathering had become a rally for the troops as the audience nailed their colours to the mast:

    "I've no problem with Paddy or John."

    "I'll second that."

    "The young lads are mad about Paddy."

    "John Cloonan is an absolute saint in my eyes.

    "If the players could put half the fire in their bellies that Paddy Kelly has there'd be a lot more silverware around here."

    "John Cloonan does savage work. We couldn't replace him with three men."

    "I've two lads and they worship Paddy."

    "Bad language is part of the game."

    "If these guys are punished you'll get nobody to do anything next year. The club will fall apart!"

    Then the spotlight turned to the complainants.

    "I think ye should tell us who's making the complaint?"

    "Is it true they bypassed the club and went straight to Croke Park?"

    "It sounds like an agenda."

    "Are they here?"

    (Laughs)

    "What was their evidence like?"

    "Were they well prepared?"

    "It's hard to know," the secretary replied.

    "That's open to interpretation," the treasurer said.

    The audience laughed.

    does Kimmage give a source for these quotes? Was he actually at the meeting? Where are these quotes coming from? Is it a source that was present at the meeting but as far as I can see, he mentions no other source than the complainants who state they were not invited to the meeting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,928 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    does Kimmage give a source for these quotes? Was he actually at the meeting? Where are these quotes coming from? Is it a source that was present at the meeting but as far as I can see, he mentions no other source than the complainants who state they were not invited to the meeting.

    I'm sure if the club had evidence that the complainants were invited, in the form of text histories, then that would have been used to support their claims.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭ Gravelly


    Circle them wagons boys, circle ‘em tight.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭ The_Honeybadger


    Taking an extract from the report:



    does Kimmage give a source for these quotes? Was he actually at the meeting? Where are these quotes coming from? Is it a source that was present at the meeting but as far as I can see, he mentions no other source than the complainants who state they were not invited to the meeting.

    I saw that as well. The very fact that there was a meeting in the first place is what I’d be more worried about. It appears to have been a rally of sorts, and shows a worrying lack of good judgement by club officials.

    I am going to assume that most of the facts presented in the article are true, they would never have printed it otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,956 ✭✭✭ TCDStudent1


    mickeyk wrote: »
    I saw that as well. The very fact that there was a meeting in the first place is what I’d be more worried about. It appears to have been a rally of sorts, and shows a worrying lack of good judgement by club officials.

    I am going to assume that most of the facts presented in the article are true, they would never have printed it otherwise.


    Aah yeah, I'd assume the same. I just thought it looked strange that there were all these quotes without being attributed to some sort of source. However, I have to admit I did find myself getting a little confused during the article as there were so many committees etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭ big_drive


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    So despite reading the full article, you believe it's the parents whom may be the problem?
    Having been the parent of a child who picked up a hurl at 4 and dropped it at 13 because of the crap he and his fellow players dealt with this behaviour is not exclusive to Athenry.

    Yes that’s the conclusion I’d come to. But again as I said I’d need to know the parents involved to know what sort they were. I’d be putting money on it though they’d be awkward, the sort who couldn’t accept their child being a sub because they actually weren’t much good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭ Happyilylost


    big_drive wrote:
    I wouldn’t be surprised if the dressing room incident was twisted a little. He may have just been explaining they wouldn’t get a game because they were younger than that age group. And a different slant was put on it. I’m a teacher and see it every day in school how kids can be very inaccurate in retelling the details of an incident


    As a teacher you would know the gentleman involved broke the biggest no no involved with coaching kids "NEVER BE ALONE WITH KIDS. NO EXCUSES." I put it in capitals because that's the way it is in the handbook when you do the child protection course. You say the story the kids could of been inaccurate. And it very well could have. And it very well could of been a hell of a lot worse. The rule is there to protect kids and protect the volunteers involved.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,602 ✭✭✭ Hitman3000


    Ardent wrote:
    Without naming names and all that, I wonder how widespread this behaviour is throughout the rest of the country?


    Just change the name of the club. Same behaviour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,928 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Just change the name of the club. Same behaviour.

    I wouldn't be as negative as that. It's like all walks of life. There are examples of positive and negative behaviour.

    I know of a very similar case in a junior soccer club but in that case, I think the parents were at fault and had an ulterior motive.

    But I know of several cases of coaches involved in underage sports where it is selfless and ran in a way which is for the benefit of all participants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭ The_Honeybadger


    big_drive wrote: »
    Yes that’s the conclusion I’d come to. But again as I said I’d need to know the parents involved to know what sort they were. I’d be putting money on it though they’d be awkward, the sort who couldn’t accept their child being a sub because they actually weren’t much good.

    Whatever the dynamics involved, the behaviour of the club officers and members is inexcusable.

    It said that 16 parents signed the letter outlining concerns, I doubt they are all sore that their young lad wasn’t the star player.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭ Are Am Eye


    Taking an extract from the report:



    does Kimmage give a source for these quotes? Was he actually at the meeting? Where are these quotes coming from? Is it a source that was present at the meeting but as far as I can see, he mentions no other source than the complainants who state they were not invited to the meeting.


    Usually whenever you see detailed quotes like that there is an audio recording of a meeting. No doubt somebody recorded it in on their phone. Somebody who was at that time or subsequently became sympathetic to the parents who made the complaint. And the recording/transcript was passed on to Kimmage.

    One of the facets of modern life when you speak you have to assume you are being recorded.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭ Bonzo Delaney


    So the crux of this mountain of a mole hill is
    a mentor cursed at the 10 yr olds in training - a no no but was a reason given for his colourful language.

    Juve seceratry had words with two 10 yr olds alone in dressing room. See this is the problem wtf was he thinking . Even to speak positively to children it's imperative it's done in adult company . And should of known better. I can totaly understand his frustration with having to field the players but a bit of cop on would of saved the club and all involved the hassle and embarrassment with it going public.
    In my own opinion what parent would let their 10yr old compete with u 14s hurlers . I don't care if theyre the great great grand child of Christy Ring. It's dangerous .

    What ever the club done afterwards to defend/ coat over the incident was always going to look bad.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭ munchkin_utd


    whats worrying to me is the win at all costs attitude at u10 when really kids should be playing as much ball as possible in small go games type leagues and not flat out inter club competitions.

    Talking about putting fire in their belly and getting silverware. They are only 8 or 9 years old ffs.


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