ASTI Ballot results **SEE MOD ANNOUNCEMENT IN LAST POST***

ASISEEIT wrote:

In the absense of a movement towards a strike lets see if the process delivers. A strike motion might emerge at convention or is that allowed? Cant recall

Zero chance that this process will deliver anything worth something to us teachers. The release is quite clear that the government has the mindset of, can't pay won't pay.

acequion wrote: »

Oh come off it km with the negativity! I get that you're pyssed off and jaded like all of us. But your ZERO chance?? How can you dismiss the spirit of your collegues like that? Beat a docile dog long enough and he'll eventually BITE. Viciously. We have to believe that we can encourage teachers to finally rise up. Otherwise it really is game over in this job.

And hey I needn't give a shyt cos I'm out in 5 years! Are all you younger folk just going to suffer on til ye collapse exhausted at around 60,if yer not dead by then!

Like I said I'm in a real mean mood today. Already in 2018,a friend of mine, a teacher aged 52 has died of cancer. Another, the same age, had just been diagnosed with a very serious illness. Coincidence? Or something to do with an extremely stressful, undervalued job?

Talk to me in June
There will have been no strike
We all know it
There is ZERO appetite for it
The vast majority of LPTs in our large school broke the picket and/or left the ASTI during the last strike . The last strike which was for them .
So they have left and the remainder will strike again for them ?
Not going to happen and we all know it.
The lack of ANY type of action from the union for the past few months is telling . But the lack of anger about lack of action is more telling.
It's Paddy's Day and it's the same auld heads who are posting again .
Vast majority don't care and want it all over
That's not negativity.
That's reality

keoclassic wrote: »

If teaching is causing you that much stress, you really need to think about early retirement. If your buddies think that teaching has brought on serious illness then they also need to think about early retirement, with 5 years left, you should be thinking about the wind down and stop letting all this wind you up.leave the younger folks to straighten out the mess that has been allowed to happen.....I'm sure they will get around to it at some stage......

This post is a typical example of the sheer ignorance that is out there about how difficult teaching has become! And most likely another non teacher sticking their oar in about matters of which they are totally clueless.

In fact this post is both funny and frightening given that droves of 50 something teachers have already run for their lives this past decade. And at the other end droves of 20 something teachers are running off overseas and into careers where they will feel valued and professionally satisfied. Soon there may not be enough young left to sort it out for themselves!

Early retirement? To do what exactly? And is that the general attitude? That people who have dedicated their entire lives to education should be retired off when they complain about the breackneck speed not so merrygoround the job has become!! Wow!

And as for my "buddies" why not re read my post again and perhaps show some respect! One of said "buddies" is now dead so can hardly think!! And the other"buddy" is so ill that thinking is out of the question. Nothing to do with the job they were in?? Have a read of this: It's about England, but Ireland is only one step behind:

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/teaching-one-most-stressful-jobs-britain

keoclassic wrote: »

You this cross in school? I most certainly was not disrespectful to anyone in your post, get a life. I taught for 10 years in this country and teachers like you used to give me a pain in the h@le in the staffroom. I'm glad I don't have to listen to this tripe any longer. Saying I was disrespectful was a real cheapsot by the way.....you clown.

I've reported this post and will now add yet another "clown" to my block list.

keoclassic wrote: »

By the way, if you think that the Laos framework is putting too much work on teachers then why don't you retire and let those that want to teach do their jobs, I know all about the English system and I also think that the des have taken some good ideas from it.......you don't think so, maybe you don't like thinks like reflection, collegial teaching, learner experiences, teachers pedagogical analysis.......you don't agree with a professional approach?

Saying yes to every hare brained scheme in the name of professionalism is what has the working conditions as bad as they are and continually deteriorating imo

and if the new JC (in science anyway) is a professional approach Ill be monkeys uncle - just read the "specification" and then go "unpack" it if you are unsure what I'm saying has any truth to it. Its yellow packing and the thin end of the wedge to worker exploitation and while the teaching profession will suffer for it theres no doubt in my mind the standard of education the students get will decline also................but if the state wants to create a completely dysfunctional education system to go alongside the health system by screwing the frontline workers and creating a load of bull**** middle management roles, red tape, administration, ass covering (some of which is sadly necessary) box ticking etc etc...then its doing a stellar job.

If more teachers had a bit of fight in them like acequion then maybe the race to the bottom would be less further advanced. Its not that some of the things you mentioned are not a good idea...its more that you have to do too much of them with not enough support in an environment where you have all the responsibilities and your students increasingly have all the rights.....its unbalanced, kids can sit in a classroom, do nothing or their level best to disrupt and they are an increasingly larger cohort and unless they physically assault someone, sweet **** all can be done to them and sometimes not even then........contact hours very high, increases in supervision and substitution hours and planning/corke park hours meaning more and more prep pushed into your "free" time...the very time you need for some headspace....not to mention the pressure to support and be part of very time consuming extra curriculars + extra classes, breakfast clubs etc etc.......not to mention mention high pupil teacher ratios etc etc

Its on its way to average career length of 5 years just like the UK if it continues.....who in their right mind with a decent 3rd level qualification (many to masters level even before the new 2 year PME) and another option probably with much better long term prospects for the same or less stress would would opt for it the way it is going......the answer is, probably in the future there will be more people that just scrape into it and a small unlucky percentage for whom it is a vocation get stuck in ever worsening conditions.

BTW I'm finding it very hard to believe you are a teacher but perhaps I'm wrong.

keoclassic wrote: »

You are also confused as to what a choice is.....nobody holds a gun to your head for extracurricular......proverbial or otherwise. From what I've seen in schools teachers are not very nice to each other, there must be 4 different pensions currently in operation and I would not hazard a guess as to how many different types of contracts are in schools........Did all that happen since 2011? Not from what I can remember!

No but this is the 21st century and things are getting worse and worse. Not very appealing. You are right regarding pension changes occurring before 2011, but this new career average pension is a scam.

I will end up paying more into this so called "pension" than I'll ever receive. Moreover, I'm still paying the same pension and pension levy rates as pre-2013 and Pre 2004 colleagues. How is that fair to have pension schemes that are totally different yet I pay in the same amount of money. More inequality.

This inequality thing is really making my blood boil, it's not just unequal pay but an unequal pension scheme on top of heavier workloads that weren't witnessed 5 years ago.

Unpaid Croke Park hours crap as well, a stupid meeting about discussing a policy we all know about and one we live and breathe everyday in our classrooms.

When does No mean No and when is it enough for this crowd. A strike needs to happen and I would highly welcome it.

At least with Ed Byrne as last year's president, we tried to stand our ground and we did no Croke Park hours. Even though he was militant, I commend him for his leadership as I thought it was necessary and still do. Too much Diddy daddling happening now with the unions. Such a kick in the stomach for a lot of us.

spurious wrote: »

Clearly the trolls were not driven out by the blessed Saint.
Thank you to those who reported and please ignore any more slitherings.

New posters, I refer you to the charter.

Care to clarify there spurious. You afraid of an alternative view?

Sir123 wrote: »

No but this is the 21st century and things are getting worse and worse. Not very appealing. You are right regarding pension changes occurring before 2011, but this new career average pension is a scam.

I will end up paying more into this so called "pension" than I'll ever receive. Moreover, I'm still paying the same pension and pension levy rates as pre-2013 and Pre 2004 colleagues. How is that fair to have pension schemes that are totally different. More inequality.

This inequality thing is really making my blood boil, it's not just unequal pay but an unequal pension scheme on top of heavier workloads that weren't witnessed 5 years ago.

Unpaid Croke Park hours crap as well, a stupid meeting about discussing a policy we all know about and one we live and breathe everyday in our classrooms.

When does No mean No and when is it enough for this crowd. A strike needs to happen and I would highly welcome it.

At least with Ed Byrne as last year's president, we tried to stand our ground and we did no Croke Park hours. Even though he was militant, I commend him for his leadership as I thought it was necessary and still do. Too much Diddy daddling happening now with the unions. Such a kick in the stomach for a lot of us.

One hundred percent agree Sir123! And I also feel that we had a great president in Ed Byrne. The present incumbent, though I voted for him,is a disappointment by comparison.

I actually think that you young teachers deserve medals for your commitment. I work in a large school where we have quite a few young teachers and my heart bleeds for the styte they have to tolerate and then to add gross insult to injury,can't even afford,as you say, a takeaway. It is clear as day that the writing is on the wall for Irish education and parents in our baby boom economy would be wise to take note. But they won't.They can't be arsed. But still we'll all have a pain in our faces repeating the same thing at junior cycle P/T meetings when parents are having a hissy fit and though 8 in the evening and shattered,we'll have to tell them that ya actually we made a big fuss about this years ago,where were you!!

Yet even now, when we open our mouths to reveal just how bad it is, we have to deal with ignoramuses here and elsewhere thinking they're cool by telling us to put up and shut up.Or else take early retirement,get another job. As if the whole thing really were that simple!

Apart at all from the huge threat this poses to the welfare of education, given that we live in a country with a high rate of suicide,depression and substance abuse,the blinkered bias against teachers and the blatant contempt for worker welfare makes my blood boil.

It's time to strike.

SligoBrewer wrote: »

It's time to strike.

Agree but thats the existential Question in ASTI. I asked SC to survey LPT teachers on whether or not they wanted a srike because I have doubts that a majority do. However if called upon to strike I will do so and for weeks. Please dont cry over your mortgage. You wont even get a letter from the bank until yiu are three months in arrears. Just a letter. Grow a pair

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Can you tell me one thing Ed byrne achieved? Yes he was let down by members but he also agreed to talks after two days of strike. I heard no evidence that he spoke against those on SC who wondered about an open ended strike? Fightback members He didnt walk away from talks when he clearly saw they were delivering nothing. At least he had the balls to apologize for his actions later on but he deserves no praise. He took his pay. could have resigned anytime but didnt

If I were you I'd reserve your ire for those who deserve it. Directing it at Ed Byrne,arguably the most militant president we've had in recent years, is way wide of the mark.

Yes, going into those talks was a mistake, but please remember that was not his decision, it was the SC of the day who voted for it. There was no motion tabled at SC or at any of those CEC meetings for open ended strike, so that is a moot point. Yes, he should have walked away from those talks,that I agree was a fatal mistake,but like you say,he took responsibility and apologised. What purpose would have been served by his resignation?

He then threw himself wholeheartedly into the campaign to secure a NO to the ballot on the talks results. He came and spoke very convincingly at my branch, to name but one. And from there on in he did everything in his power to keep the campaign on the road,despite the constant attempts at derailing by a faction from within, a faction who eventually got their way.

So what did he achieve? Thanks to his leadership and some very influential people within CEC, yes the fightback people and some more, ASTI members got a whole year without having to do CP hours, proving how unnecessary they are. And proving that some people were committed to facing down the Govt despite all kinds of pressure. I think that's a fairly significant achievement but feel free to disagree. I am also convinced that if EB and all of us were not ultimately let down by a tiny percentage at that special convention, there would eventually have been a break through.

All I have seen from other presidents is an increasing reluctance to rock the boat. Ed Byrne could never be accused of that.

acequion wrote: »

If I were you I'd reserve your ire for those who deserve it. Directing it at Ed Byrne,arguably the most militant president we've had in recent years, is way wide of the mark.

Yes, going into those talks was a mistake, but please remember that was not his decision, it was the SC of the day who voted for it. There was no motion tabled at SC or at any of those CEC meetings for open ended strike, so that is a moot point. Yes, he should have walked away from those talks,that I agree was a fatal mistake,but like you say,he took responsibility and apologised. What purpose would have been served by his resignation?

He then threw himself wholeheartedly into the campaign to secure a NO to the ballot on the talks results. He came and spoke very convincingly at my branch, to name but one. And from there on in he did everything in his power to keep the campaign on the road,despite the constant attempts at derailing by a faction from within, a faction who eventually got their way.

So what did he achieve? Thanks to his leadership and some very influential people within CEC, yes the fightback people and some more, ASTI members got a whole year without having to do CP hours, proving how unnecessary they are. And proving that some people were committed to facing down the Govt despite all kinds of pressure. I think that's a fairly significant achievement but feel free to disagree. I am also convinced that if EB and all of us were not ultimately let down by a tiny percentage at that special convention, there would eventually have been a break through.

All I have seen from other presidents is an increasing reluctance to rock the boat. Ed Byrne could never be accused of that.

I do agree that we shouldn't have participated in those talks. But I do agree with acequion that if we kept the industrial action up, even if it was solely withdrawing from doing Croke Park hours, that some breakthrough might have happened. Instead we gave in too soon, way too soon.

I remember the days coming up to the strike, the Minister himself on the radio stating "they only have to do one extra hour a week, that's all they have to do". He was really bothered with ASTI not doing these extremely useless hours, he didn't care about anything else.

I actually think the Minister himself used to go to bed every night with a punch bag shouting "Damn you ASTI for not doing those hours. How dare you, who do you think you are?". I would not be surprised at all. He was very very bothered about that directive.

I think Special Convention was a joke. I'm sorry, I've been very vocal about it since June 10th, it will never leave me. Instead, Buckley and all his cronies got everyone on the bandwagon to SC in order to get some 'benefits' and I really use that word lightly. Benefits, yeah right, for who exactly?

This government are not going to give in anytime soon. They don't believe in equal pay for equal work.

Intermittent and continuous strikes are the only way. The schedule needs to become disrupted. Let's go and get it passed at convention, and make sure it happens. We're living in the 21st century and teachers, who are supposed to be professionals, barely have a living wage, those that live on part-time hours and those on lower pay especially. It's a disgrace.

I think we need to look at those teachers in West Virgina USA who secured a 5% pay increase. We have to get out and strike. It is the only way.

Lets look to the future than rake over the past. Anybody who thinks things would have been radically different bar the special convention is delusional. Members resigned in mass from the union-most were LPTs. Problem has been that ASTI stirs a fight and then backs down. So lets outline a program to prevent this. Proof in pudding for the 'only but for the special convention' brigade will be the motion to rid us of these conventions. If that cant pass you have your answer-its not a militant group -its the whole bloody union
Get rid of special conventions-propose a strike and move the fxxx on
Are there any strike motions at convention?
If not any chance??

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Special convention a useful lightening rod for criticism but ignores fact that annual convention 2017 turned down strike action. We would have been balloted in late 2017 and the result would have been the same. We would be where We are now.
All special convention delegates chosen by their branches. Your branch.

Yes my branch. And though late in the year and everyone up to eyeballs, we still went en masse to that branch meeting and got some great people elected to represent the branch.

Wasn't enough though and even though there's no concrete proof, many would swear that several were bussed in to that convention, purely for their voting intentions!