ASTI Ballot results **SEE MOD ANNOUNCEMENT IN LAST POST***

mtoutlemonde

judeboy101 wrote: »

Interesting person running for vp lol

Was he one of the militant group that has landed us with the Junior Cycle rubbish for the sake of an increment?

judeboy101

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

judeboy101 wrote: »

Interesting person running for vp lol

Was he one of the militant group that has landed us with the Junior Cycle rubbish for the sake of an increment?

Well let's just put it this way, anyone who thought last summers special conference was organized without this in mind hasn't been paying attention.

Icsics

judeboy101 wrote: »

Interesting person running for vp lol

Very interesting, must need it for his political CV

mtoutlemonde

Icsics wrote: »

Very interesting, must need it for his political CV

Future Minister for Education?????

Terri26

A very similar motion to motion rejected at CEC (motion 2) so please go to your branch meetings in the coming weeks to stress you want your members voting for this (if you want it passed). The fight is going in CEC so you need to have your voice heard (either way).

r93kaey5p2izun

So that's who he is! He's a pain on twitter with his carefully "curated" collection of retweets, always make an appearance on every education hashtag.

deiseindublin

Anybody associated with the special convention last year should be treated with the derision they deserve. I would have thought a majority carrying a ballot was pretty much an accepted tenet of trade unionism, but it seems not.

ASISEEIT

deiseindublin wrote: »

Anybody associated with the special convention last year should be treated with the derision they deserve. I would have thought a majority carrying a ballot was pretty much an accepted tenet of trade unionism, but it seems not.

I think thats very harsh language. Undemocratic. I was not at convention but accept the result. In the end without a plan for strike it was going nowhere. We would have wound up like Republicans before the peace process-smug in our rejection ism but going nowhere fast.
Members have voted since and we work with those results, but so far all I see is drift and more drift.
If any motion on strike action succeeds then it has to be specific ie how many days exactly .

Im not terribly hopeful about this drift ending

SligoBrewer

Truth hurts. A small militant minority thought they knew better than the democratic vote of the majority.

The result is me grading my own students this year and people thinking that I've got enough pay equality to tide me over until the next crisis.

km79

Drift ......what drift ........here we go
https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/jc-framework-workload-survey/
A survey on workload

ASISEEIT

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Truth hurts. A small militant minority thought they knew better than the democratic vote of the majority.

The result is me grading my own students this year and people thinking that I've got enough pay equality to tide me over until the next crisis.

Why not propose the ending of special conventions? Rules are rules unless changed by a majority

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

Drift ......what drift ........here we go
https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/jc-framework-workload-survey/
A survey on workload

Ger needs to get his finger out and crack the whip before exams. You can already see the resignation on the faces of members in my school to the new status quo

evolving_doors

km79 wrote: »

Drift ......what drift ........here we go
https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/jc-framework-workload-survey/
A survey on workload

Another workload survey!
Can only mean one thing .
Department are in secret talks with the union about cutting the half term breaks.
Parents would love it.
Radio stations would love the texts flying in at any mention of holidays.

MacGyver007

evolving_doors wrote: »

Another workload survey!
Can only mean one thing .
Department are in secret talks with the union about cutting the half term breaks.
Parents would love it.
Radio stations would love the texts flying in at any mention of holidays.

Surely not??? :eek:

ASISEEIT

Anytime a strike action for LPT is put to me I will vote Yes. Either in a ballot or at convention. I await leadership. I think thats all any of can do. The leakage of members plus the inertia of your typical teacher means we could be waiting a long time. Adieu

SligoBrewer

ASISEEIT wrote: »

Why not propose the ending of special conventions? Rules are rules unless changed by a majority

There's a motion at convention for this. Thankfully.

ASISEEIT

The special convention only speeded up the wrap up process of a failed campaign . Without strike action it was going nowhere . However a ballot of all members would have been better .
The special convention came across as a back stab . A ballot would have given all members a say but i really doubt they would have voted to continue as was.
Better to plot ahead than play 'what if'

Sir123

ASISEEIT wrote: »

The special convention only speeded up the wrap up process of a failed campaign . Without strike action it was going nowhere . However a ballot of all members would have been better .
The special convention came across as a back stab . A ballot would have given all members a say but i really doubt they would have voted to continue as was.
Better to plot ahead than play 'what if'

Lansdowne Road agreement was voted on twice, and rejected, regardless of how close it was second time round.

We should have kept going with our industrial action and made our voices heard. A small minority brought us down and that, in my eyes, is undemocratic.

As a result of suspending our industrial action and being encompassed under the LRA/PSSA since June and January retrospectively, we have sold ourselves out and have engaged in "talks" since October on new entrant pay that will amount to nothing. With only a handful of weeks left in the school year, we've continued a very unsuccessful campaign by doing nothing because of that special convention. It should really be called a "stupid" convention in fairness.

ASISEEIT

The special convention is the past. Deal with it. It was always there in the rules for either side to use. Its a handy thing to put all the blame on it. Without a strike-which had been rejected at ANNUAL convention -action was going nowhere. Deep in your hearts you know that but like the Germans in 1918-handy to blame a small group rather than face reality.
Delegates at Special convention elected by their branch-so every school had a say if they bothered to turn up.


And No i didnt attend it. I thought they put down a dying animal with dignity. The previous 7 months had shown no appetite for strike.

acequion

ASISEEIT wrote: »

The special convention only speeded up the wrap up process of a failed campaign . Without strike action it was going nowhere . However a ballot of all members would have been better .
The special convention came across as a back stab . A ballot would have given all members a say but i really doubt they would have voted to continue as was.
Better to plot ahead than play 'what if'

This talk of a "failed campaign" is a sound byte" akin to teaching being a "cushy number" and public servants having "gold plated pensions." Sweeping statements that sound so no nonsense and preclude further discussion. Yet pick them apart and you quickly see that they'e rubbish.

There was no "failed campaign" per se. What happened was too many people just were not prepared to dig the heels in, sit it out despite the pain and really put it up to the Govt. If we had done that and continued not doing CP hours, not cooperating with the new JC and keeping the unequal pay campaign to the forefront we would have got a result eventually. Instead we were just too divided to keep going.The Govt saw that and realised they had won long before we conceded defeat. So the blame for all this lies squarely with the members,some of whom are quick to criticise but won't get up off their arses to attend a branch or even a school union meeting.

That's the reality. We are where we are because members keep giving in. All the way back to the CPA. And for what? A substandard junior cycle, heaps more work, ever worsening working conditions and continued pay apartheid.

ASISEEIT

acequion wrote: »

This talk of a "failed campaign" is a sound byte" akin to teaching being a "cushy number" and public servants having "gold plated pensions." Sweeping statements that sound so no nonsense and preclude further discussion. Yet pick them apart and you quickly see that they'e rubbish.

There was no "failed campaign" per se. What happened was too many people just were not prepared to dig the heels in, sit it out despite the pain and really put it up to the Govt. If we had done that and continued not doing CP hours, not cooperating with the new JC and keeping the unequal pay campaign to the forefront we would have got a result eventually. Instead we were just too divided to keep going.The Govt saw that and realised they had won long before we conceded defeat. So the blame for all this lies squarely with the members,some of whom are quick to criticise but won't get up off their arses to attend a branch or even a school union meeting.

That's the reality. We are where we are because members keep giving in. All the way back to the CPA. And for what? A substandard junior cycle, heaps more work, ever worsening working conditions and continued pay apartheid.

I tend to agree with most of what you say. There are a lot of members who went to that convention who doubted the avg members capacity to carry on. Its not black and white.
Im all in favor of a long war. Im all in favor of a couple of weeks strike.
Time now to regroup-go to your branch meetings. Talk to the members who dont go to meetings. I have been bitter as any lemon but time to look ahead

Sir123

Anyone else think that this is extremely vague? What does it mean? It sounds like more waffle to me.

More talks, I thought we were in talks and that a 'roadmap' was going to be laid out before us towards pay equalisation.

Anyone else find this outrageous?

http://www.per.gov.ie/en/minister-donohoe-publishes-new-entrant-salary-scale-report/

Icsics

Sir123 wrote: »

Anyone else think that this is extremely vague? What does it mean? It sounds like more waffle to me.

More talks, I thought we were in talks and that a 'roadmap' was going to be laid out before us towards pay equalisation.

Anyone else find this outrageous?

http://www.per.gov.ie/en/minister-donohoe-publishes-new-entrant-salary-scale-report/

This is typical of DES spin, more ‘talks’ just before the Easter conferences. I thought we were already in ‘talks’. One things for sure, we never gained anything from ‘talks’

Sir123

Icsics wrote: »

This is typical of DES spin, more ‘talks’ just before the Easter conferences. I thought we were already in ‘talks’. One things for sure, we never gained anything from ‘talks’

You are absolutely right. It's time now that all three unions stand up to the fight. Industrial action is the only way to solve this issue a long and hard one for sure. Hopefully this motion is backed at convention.

ASISEEIT

I saw the motions awhile back. Is there any motion that will stir things up a bit ? Outside forces are pushing for more pay equality . Teacher shortage and FF are pushing for something next budget.

To be fair to asti feck all movement from TUI or INTO as well.

I shan't despair yet

acequion

It's beyond outrageous and it's a kick in the teeth :mad:

Read it again guys,it basically says:

It would cost far too much to put back the old salary scale that we robbed off ye in the crisis. And anyway it hasn't stopped suckers taking up the jobs so why should we give a fcuk! But [yawn,yawn] since a few of yer boys in the unions are plaguing us to talk about this, fine we talked. And our "comprehensive data" shows to ye thick people who just won't get it, that it's way too dear and not necessary anyway to change things. But hey we're decent guys that run this little country so ok we'll keep talking and telling ye the same thing in different ways for as long as it takes ye to get the message and pyss off!

I'm feeling pretty mean today as I'm beyond exhausted from all the predicted extra work associated with trying to get two classes ready for upcoming CBAs, in addition to the usual overwork associated with two huge LC classes and all the rest. So,boy am I ready for a fight!!

And we may as well all face up to it. A prolonged all out strike that causes major disruption,especially at this time of year, is the only thing that will force a proper response!

ASISEEIT

acequion wrote: »

It's beyond outrageous and it's a kick in the teeth :mad:

Read it again guys,it basically says:

It would cost far too much to put back the old salary scale that we robbed off ye in the crisis. And anyway it hasn't stopped suckers taking up the jobs so why should we give a fcuk! But [yawn,yawn] since a few of yer boys in the unions are plaguing us to talk about this, fine we talked. And our "comprehensive data" shows to ye thick people who just won't get it, that it's way too dear and not necessary anyway to change things. But hey we're decent guys that run this little country so ok we'll keep talking and telling ye the same thing in different ways for as long as it takes ye to get the message and pyss off!

I'm feeling pretty mean today as I'm beyond exhausted from all the predicted extra work associated with trying to get two classes ready for upcoming CBAs, in addition to the usual overwork associated with two huge LC classes and all the rest. So,boy am I ready for a fight!!

And we may as well all face up to it. A prolonged all out strike that causes major disruption,especially at this time of year, is the only thing that will force a proper response!

In the absense of a movement towards a strike lets see if the process delivers. A strike motion might emerge at convention or is that allowed? Cant recall

km79

There is ZERO chance of a strike

Sir123

km79 wrote: »

There is ZERO chance of a strike

Are you certain about that km79? Is there not a motion for a potential strike coming up at convention? Will that be shot down or is it not going to happen.

acequion

km79 wrote: »

There is ZERO chance of a strike

Oh come off it km with the negativity! I get that you're pyssed off and jaded like all of us. But your ZERO chance?? How can you dismiss the spirit of your collegues like that? Beat a docile dog long enough and he'll eventually BITE. Viciously. We have to believe that we can encourage teachers to finally rise up. Otherwise it really is game over in this job.

And hey I needn't give a shyt cos I'm out in 5 years! Are all you younger folk just going to suffer on til ye collapse exhausted at around 60,if yer not dead by then!

Like I said I'm in a real mean mood today. Already in 2018,a friend of mine, a teacher aged 52 has died of cancer. Another, the same age, had just been diagnosed with a very serious illness. Coincidence? Or something to do with an extremely stressful, undervalued job?