ASTI Ballot results **SEE MOD ANNOUNCEMENT IN LAST POST***

Sir123

km79 wrote: »

I thought we were not going to be penalised for not signing up
Only penalised if we took Ind action and thus repudiated it

I think we'll know more tomorrow Km79. Increments will be frozen until 2020 and pay rises might be delayed or withdrawn completely if we remain unsigned to the agreement. I'm not sure if we'll be any worse off if we repudiate (i.e. take strike action and not do Croke Park hours). I'm sure Pascal and Bruton will make it clear to us by the weekend.

km79

Sir123 wrote: »

I think we'll know more tomorrow Km79. Increments will be frozen until 2020 and pay rises may be delayed or not given provided we remained unsigned to the agreement. I'm not sure if we will be any worse off if we repudiate (i.e. take strike action and not do Croke Park hours). I'm sure Pascal and Bruton will make it clear to us by the weekend.

We never signed up to lra 1 but got the "benefits " when Ind action was lifted ?

Sir123

km79 wrote: »

We never signed up to lra 1 but got the "benefits " when Ind action was lifted ?

You are correct. However, an article issued yesterday by the Irish Times highlighted that potential increment freezes until 2020 may apply to those who have chosen not to sign up to the deal. I think they are publishing information tomorrow regarding it. We'll have to wait and see I suppose.

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote:

I thought we were not going to be penalised for not signing up Only penalised if we took Ind action and thus repudiated it

Govt have once again changed the goal posts to suit themselves.

Sir123

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Govt have once again changed the goal posts to suit themselves.

Here's the article published yesterday. I say we show them who's boss..

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1107/918232-public-service-bill/

Mardy Bum

Sir123 wrote: »

Here's the article published yesterday. I say we show them who's boss..

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1107/918232-public-service-bill/

It reads as scare tactics prior to CEC meeting and voting to continue suspension of strike action. They want us to suspend IA so I doubt they will deduct us further unless we begin IA.

Sir123

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It reads as scare tactics prior to CEC meeting and voting to continue suspension of strike action. They want us to suspend IA so I doubt they will deduct us further unless we begin IA.

Can I ask, seen as it wasn't published by ASTI, was the yes vote to remain with the suspension of industrial action close? It would be interesting to know as we've a very divided union at present.

km79

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It reads as scare tactics prior to CEC meeting and voting to continue suspension of strike action. They want us to suspend IA so I doubt they will deduct us further unless we begin IA.

This was my understanding of it too

acequion

Sir123 wrote: »

Can I ask, seen as it wasn't published by ASTI, was the yes vote to remain with the suspension of industrial action close? It would be interesting to know as we've a very divided union at present.

There was no motion put forward to lift the suspension of IA. While we might well feel like telling the Govt where to go, everyone realises that we would gain nothing and stand to lose more if IA was lifted. Therefore the motion debated was on continuing the suspension to give the talks every chance especially since INTO and TUI are already committed to those talks. The motion also read that in the event of an unsatisfactory outcome a joint campaign with our sister unions could then be considered. That motion was overwhelmingly carried. In fairness it's a reasonable strategy and a few pages back that very strategy was suggested by the poster joebloggs, I think. A poster, who if I'm not mistaken,is TUI. Just as he suggested, it's a lot smarter to let LPTs get some more cash [if we're not penalised for rejecting] and keep the nuclear option in reserve for a more opportune moment later in the school year.

But as for our divisions, yes, most unfortunately we are very divided. People need to be very cognisant of that.

evolving_doors

acequion wrote: »

There was no motion put forward to lift the suspension of IA. While we might well feel like telling the Govt where to go, everyone realises that we would gain nothing and stand to lose more if IA was lifted. Therefore the motion debated was on continuing the suspension to give the talks every chance especially since INTO and TUI are already committed to those talks. The motion also read that in the event of an unsatisfactory outcome a joint campaign with our sister unions could then be considered. That motion was overwhelmingly carried. In fairness it's a reasonable strategy and a few pages back that very strategy was suggested by the poster joebloggs, I think. A poster, who if I'm not mistaken,is TUI. Just as he suggested, it's a lot smarter to let LPTs get some more cash [if we're not penalised for rejecting] and keep the nuclear option in reserve for a more opportune moment later in the school year.

But as for our divisions, yes, most unfortunately we are very divided. People need to be very cognisant of that.

Later in the school year means into orals/practicals/mocks/final prep for June.
A lot of teachers would rather eat there own hand than disrupt this.
As with last year, the most opportune time was november.
I suspect the govt. thinks this way too.

acequion

evolving_doors wrote: »

Later in the school year means into orals/practicals/mocks/final prep for June.
A lot of teachers would rather eat there own hand than disrupt this.
As with last year, the most opportune time was november.
I suspect the govt. thinks this way too.

I don't thinks so evolving_doors. We have to take account of the fact that INTO may not be willing to strike and if it's second level only then it has to be maximum impact. And what impact is there in November? It just happened to be November last year and actually they may not have been so willing to lock us out if crucial things were meant to be happening in the schools at that time.

But I completely take your point re the willingness of teachers to disrupt exams. The willingness of teachers to get tough at all really! But toughness and steely determination will be vital for success.

Do be aware though that the motion didn't explicitly state "strike" if the talks fail. The more vaguely worded "campaign" was used. A lot of waiting, seeing and playing by ear to come over the next few months.

gavwaldo

For those who know people...... any chance the 3 unions are actually talking to each other behind the scenes before these "talks"? Or are they all biting off their noses to spite their paying union members faces ?

Mardy Bum

gavwaldo wrote: »

For those who know people...... any chance the 3 unions are actually talking to each other behind the scenes before these "talks"? Or are they all biting off their noses to spite their paying union members faces ?

I'll go with option b Carol.

Sir123

I wonder if there's any news on these "talks"? No update given as of late. I find it funny that some teachers claim talking is the only way LPTs secured an increase in LRA. It clearly wasn't. It was ASTI's industrial action.

MrJones1973

Drift and more drift from asti

judeboy101

MrJones1973 wrote: »

Drift and more drift from asti

I think they are hoping we all forget it

Sir123

judeboy101 wrote: »

I think they are hoping we all forget it

I hope that's certainly not the case. Government have to give clarity on the issue within three months as far as I'm aware. If this outcome is unsatisfactory, I'm hoping, around convention time, a motion towards strike action after Easter holidays is put forward. All unions would need to be on the same page however.

There's one thing I've noticed in the last few weeks and that's the media attention. In a way, this could be classed as a good thing, but deep down I know the government are going to do squat for pay equality. They're too much of a dictator.

I hope that teachers regain some stand in the coming weeks as the working conditions are also being severly eroded as the weeks go by.

I love my job, I love to teach but I don't love being made a fool of. And as a LPT, that certainly is happening.

joebloggs32

Sir123 wrote: »

I hope that's certainly not the case. Government have to give clarity on the issue within three months as far as I'm aware. If this outcome is unsatisfactory, I'm hoping, around convention time, a motion towards strike action after Easter holidays is put forward. All unions would need to be on the same page however.

There's one thing I've noticed in the last few weeks and that's the media attention. In a way, this could be classed as a good thing, but deep down I know the government are going to do squat for pay equality. They're too much of a dictator.

I hope that teachers regain some stand in the coming weeks as the working conditions are also being severly eroded as the weeks go by.

I love my job, I love to teach but I don't love being made a fool of. And as a LPT, that certainly is happening.

I agree with you. Strike now and the government will pi$$ themselves laughing at us out in the cold while saving money. Look at the way it collapsed last year after a few days.
However threaten strike in April when we have leverage and they will sit up and take notice.
If we have learned anything from the guards, train and luas drivers it is that the government will have if backed into a a corner, but only then.

acequion

ASTI has gone meek though. Much chastened by recent failed campaigns and the loss of members, I think.

Therefore now is the time for ordinary members to put huge pressure on the union leaders to up the ante. Go to your branch meetings, bombard your CEC reps and basically demand action. Demand that the leaders of the three unions prepare a joint strategy. I,too am hoping that convention will kick start something and I totally agree that it's the perfect time of year to force a result.

We have given in on everything. We just CANNOT give in on pay equalisation!

SligoBrewer

acequion wrote: »

ASTI has gone meek though. Much chastened by recent failed campaigns and the loss of members, I think.

Therefore now is the time for ordinary members to put huge pressure on the union leaders to up the ante. Go to your branch meetings, bombard your CEC reps and basically demand action. Demand that the leaders of the three unions prepare a joint strategy. I,too am hoping that convention will kick start something and I totally agree that it's the perfect time of year to force a result.

We have given in on everything. We just CANNOT give in on pay equalisation!

The difference that 2 or 3 NQTs can have on a branch meeting is ridiculous. Every NQT should be at them demanding action, especially as they are nominating convention motions at the minute.

Darwin

I'm in third level (TUI) and head office is asking us once again to lobby TD's in relation to pay equalisation issue for teachers, so something at least is happening. My last few lobby emails got the usual bland replies from all my local TDs, none of whom opposed the 2017 Public Service Pay and Pensions bill. Also, I have heard the government is withholding pay restoration (due this month) for unions who are outside the PSSA, despite the assertion from ASTI that they are not repudiating the agreement and that all members are covered by it. If the former is true, I would hope that croke park hours and third level flex hours are immediately pulled.

km79

Darwin wrote: »

I'm in third level (TUI) and head office is asking us once again to lobby TD's in relation to pay equalisation issue for teachers, so something at least is happening. My last few lobby emails got the usual bland replies from all my local TDs, none of whom opposed the 2017 Public Service Pay and Pensions bill. Also, I have heard the government is withholding pay restoration (due this month) for unions who are outside the PSSA, despite the assertion from ASTI that they are not repudiating the agreement and that all members are covered by it. If the former is true, I would hope that croke park hours and third level flex hours are immediately pulled.

We already got this pay restoration this month ?

Darwin

My source is our local TUI branch, but it would appear they have the wrong end of the stick.

deiseindublin

I can't ever see the TUI pulling anything. They just keep cutting ribbons and telling us they're working in the background.

SligoBrewer

deiseindublin wrote: »

I can't ever see the TUI pulling anything. They just keep cutting ribbons and telling us they're working in the background.

Better than the INTO though to be fair. I feel sorry for the Glór people who have to drag their leadership into action.

judeboy101

any idea if the new Assistant principal 1 and 2 jobs are paid at the same rate as the old assistant principal/special duties posts rates?

ccazza

judeboy101 wrote: »

any idea if the new Assistant principal 1 and 2 jobs are paid at the same rate as the old assistant principal/special duties posts rates?

They are. All previous Assistant Principals posts and Special Duties posts are being renamed AP 1 and AP 2. Remuneration remains the same.

dory

ccazza wrote: »

They are. All previous Assistant Principals posts and Special Duties posts are being renamed AP 1 and AP 2. Remuneration remains the same.

And just to be clear - if an LPT, who isn't entitled to allowances, get an AP 2 job...do they get that allowance? Presume it's somehow classed as something different.

Sir123

A few interesting motions coming up at convention 2018, especially motions 2 & 8 for all us LPTs.

Nuacht Feb 2018 has the list of motions that will be debated.

https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/nuacht-no-1-2018-convention-special/

judeboy101

Sir123 wrote: »

A few interesting motions coming up at convention 2018, especially motions 2 & 8 for all us LPTs.

Nuacht Feb 2018 has the list of motions that will be debated.

https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/nuacht-no-1-2018-convention-special/

Interesting person running for vp lol