ASTI Ballot results **SEE MOD ANNOUNCEMENT IN LAST POST***

Icsics

The ballot closed this evening, will we get a result tonight?

sitstill

Icsics wrote: »

The ballot closed this evening, will we get a result tonight?

It'll be Monday I'd say.

Chancer3001

Monday May be too early even

wirelessdude01

Would ye call it?

Our INTO CEC rep said that our(INTO) strategy going forward depends on all three unions displaying a united front.

sitstill

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Would ye call it?

Our INTO CEC rep said that our(INTO) strategy going forward depends on all three unions displaying a united front.

My school was a firm Yes anyway.

Chancer3001

ill go 60% No vote

ccazza

Ballot results will be out Monday. I asked the union today. “the ballot count is on Monday and we would expect to have the result on Monday evening at the latest.”

TheDriver

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Would ye call it?

Our INTO CEC rep said that our(INTO) strategy going forward depends on all three unions displaying a united front.

A united front from INTO? Same union that converted a no to a yes

acequion

Any idea what time tomorrow we can expect a result?

judeboy101

acequion wrote: »

Any idea what time tomorrow we can expect a result?

Tween 2-3 pm, which means Irish times have it now lol

jonseyblub

Rejected 51.5 to 48.5%

evolving_doors

No it is then!

judeboy101

Wow tight as a ducks arse that vote was. Basically 4decent sized schools the difference. But NO means NO.

Chancer3001

No means vote again

evolving_doors

Anyone got the head count?

rossean

64% turnout.

acequion

THANK GOD!

Nellieelephant

Whoop whoop!!! Fair play- proud!

picturehangup

Vote much too close for my liking.
They will probably make us vote again, until we come up with the 'right' answer.
I am and always have been a firm and unrelenting 'no' vote. Next thing is CPD. How much are we doing? Seems like many principals are currently gathering info on the number of hours undertaken by each and every staff member. Another thread for another day.

acequion

The nay sayers are at the usual pessimism saying that the margin is tiny, that it won't make a difference and yada yada.

But I think this result is hugely significant. It means that despite all the hopelessness and negativity the No half of the union is still on top. Despite the judas special convention the No half is still on top. And despite wobbles from TUI and INTO the No half is still on top. Only barely but still a majority.

It means that now there is a real chance that the three teachers union can force the Govt's hand. It also means that we chose solidarity with our sister unions rather than sell them and the NQTs down the river. It is up to us now to make sure that we don't waste this chance and I'm so very thankful that the members agreed to this chance.

How very different it would be this evening if the Yes half had won! The nay sayers should think about that and be a bit more optimistic for once.

evolving_doors

Yes votes: 5,232

No votes: 5,558

Turnout: 64%

evolving_doors

picturehangup wrote: »

Vote much too close for my liking.
They will probably make us vote again, until we come up with the 'right' answer.
I am and always have been a firm and unrelenting 'no' vote. Next thing is CPD. How much are we doing? Seems like many principals are currently gathering info on the number of hours undertaken by each and every staff member. Another thread for another day.

You might be interested in this one if you want to kick off another thread.

Mr Bruton told delegates at the NAPD conference they should be given greater autonomy on deciding the kind of continuous professional development their teachers should undergo in the coming years.

The Department of Education spends around €100m a year to cover teacher absences on a range of training programmes, but he said 85% of the courses are dictated by the department or other education agencies.

“Really, the centre of gravity has to be changed, where...leaders within schools identify the direction of travel. They should be shaping the types of professional support that their staff are getting to achieve [their schools’] goals,” he said.

“Of course, as we go down this road of greater trust, greater autonomy, greater devolution, it will put a stronger focus on the need for governance and accountability.”

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/applying-for-several-schools-slammed-461328.html

deiseindublin

judeboy101 wrote: »

Wow tight as a ducks arse that vote was. Basically 4decent sized schools the difference. But NO means NO.

You'd have to wonder if the anti democracy gang will go looking for a special congress again.

deiseindublin

So delighted with this outcome today. Was dreading looking up result in case it was a Yes. Narrow margin but that's all that is needed.

Here's hoping that something comes of all 3 unions singing from the same hymn sheet, for now anyway.

Sir123

Hi all, I'm back and delightful to hear this result. As others have said, it is great to see all teacher unions standing united together.

Well done to you all that stuck by CEC's NO recommendation. I am proud of you all.

wirelessdude01

Really hope that the top brass in all three unions have been having behind the scene talks in anticipation of this result and can provide some sort of a united strategy.

2011abc

Well The INTO top brass have chosen to ignore the 89% of membership who voted against the deal so I wouldn't be optimistic .ASTI myself and shocked at margin of win .Dirty tricks by government with lock out and dismissal( " removed from the payroll") threat last time round has broken the will of many .With latest stats saying almost half of under 30s are on non standard (zero hours ) contracts if we don't fight soon what have our children and younger colleagues got to look forward to ?

man_no_plan

2011abc wrote: »

Well The INTO top brass have chosen to ignore the 89% of membership who voted against the deal so I wouldn't be optimistic .ASTI myself and shocked at margin of win .Dirty tricks by government with lock out and dismissal( " removed from the payroll") threat last time round has broken the will of many .With latest stats saying almost half of under 30s are on non standard (zero hours ) contracts if we don't fight soon what have our children and younger colleagues got to look forward to ?

Have you a source for that stat? It seems very high.

2011abc

Figures of 46 and 47% quoted by SIPTU official from recent surveys on Matt Cooper radio show this evening .

km79

Hoping for a clear strategy to be outlined over the next few days .
Wait and see is not an option

wirelessdude01

man_no_plan wrote:

Have you a source for that stat? It seems very high.

Result is from a vote back in June. Available on the INTO website.

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote:

Hoping for a clear strategy to be outlined over the next few days . Wait and see is not an option

ASTI CEC isn't meeting until mid Nov at the earliest so waiting and seeing is the only option. Wrong one at that if you ask me.

judeboy101

Train drivers doing 5days next month you can guarantee they will get a deal, imagine what deal we would get if 5 days of no primary school?

km79

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

ASTI CEC isn't meeting until mid Nov at the earliest so waiting and seeing is the only option. Wrong one at that if you ask me.

Assume all 3 unions are going to come together over the next week or 2
Surely ?

wirelessdude01

km79 wrote:

Assume all 3 unions are going to come together over the next week or 2 Surely ?

That would make sense but then again it is teaching unions we are talking about here.

Realistically they should have already been coming together with a strategy in anticipation of this result.

SligoBrewer

I like that Croke Park idea that's being floated about at the minute.

2011abc

What idea ?

km79

SligoBrewer wrote: »

I like that Croke Park idea that's being floated about at the minute.

Which is what ?
The same thing we did last year and gained nothing ?

acequion

km79 wrote: »

Which is what ?
The same thing we did last year and gained nothing ?

No guys. Take a look over at the fightback facebook page and you'll see what they mean:

https://www.facebook.com/a.fightback/

They're talking about the biggest mass rally of teachers in the history of the state, held in Croke Park in 1985. Teachers unions meant business back then and consequently got results. Fightback and their counterpoints on TUI are revving up for action,which I think is great and are suggesting a similar type of rally to be followed by industrial action.

I completely agree that we must see action this time. I'm so grateful to still have the loyalty of the majority No people that I feel it's imperative it not be wasted.Sitting back on our hands in passive resistance,which I personally was happy enough with, inevitably weakened us and brought about the special convention. I, for one, am totally committed to not allowing that to happen this time.

But there can't be a CEC meeting until mid November as the next two Saturdays will be the mid term break. I would sincerely hope that by that stage ground work will have been done.

gaiscioch

Delighted with the result, but more disillusioned than ever with the existence of three teacher unions. It's a badge of utter stupidity by the teachers of Ireland. Divide and conquer. There is no justification for it, and we alone are the ones to suffer from it. Three unions are an open invitation to each government of each generation to extract concessions from us by playing one teachers' union off against another.

Let the 3rd level academics/researchers in the TUI move to IFUT and amalgamate either both secondary school unions, or them and the INTO.

A unified, single teachers' union would make every government take notice. I can only conclude that it is vested interests within the ASTI and TUI worring about their little political careers who are stopping the most beneficial single move both unions could do immediately. What other rational objection is there to a single union? It's long past time that teachers regrouped and got greater efficiencies and impact by uniting our teacher unions now.

Terri26

I've a feeling CEC will be sooner rather than later. Possibly before we go back to school. We've had to meet before during holidays.

feardeas

Just a few observations. In general turnout across all three unions was quite low and ASTI and TUI were school ballots. ASTI was far closer than I thought, in fact if those percentages had held last Spring then it would have been a different story given the number of people who left.

I think the idea of a rally in Croke Park is pure daft and I do not mean to offend anyone by saying that at all. The three unions have an opportunity to press the case relentlessly at the talks about lower pay that have begun. Bruton talking about shortages last week gives a context and potential cover for the government to do something. There may be stirrings, to do something in a knee jerk way now would be silly. For those who do not believe in talks I remind you that the Bus drivers, hitting OAPs largely and they tend to vote a lot, were out for three weeks and ended up accepting the original offer. Sanity is needed at times. Anyway we shall see but I have a feeling that not one hour of action will come from any of the three unions on this.

deiseindublin

So what should be done feardeas, give up now? :rolleyes:

spurious

Just to point out that while TUI school ballots may seem handier for people to vote at, many ETB colleges have an equal number of members in out centres that may not visit the main college more than a couple of times a year. Not all the members in a school would work in that location.

deiseindublin

Personally, I'd prefer to vote by post myself, not in school but the usual 'couldn't be bothered' brigade would bring the count down massively.

SligoBrewer

deiseindublin wrote: »

Personally, I'd prefer to vote by post myself, not in school but the usual 'couldn't be bothered' brigade would bring the count down massively.

a lot of people have their home address as their permanent address, not their current in term address. In school ballots are better, but awkward for those who just changed jobs in September or are new into the union.

man_no_plan

2011abc wrote: »

Figures of 46 and 47% quoted by SIPTU official from recent surveys on Matt Cooper radio show this evening .

Thanks. It's the general population then, not teaching, there's a good bit of it around in retail and hospitality alright.

SligoBrewer

man_no_plan wrote: »

Thanks. It's the general population then, not teaching, there's a good bit of it around in retail and hospitality alright.

Every sub teacher is on a zero hours contract so you can deduce figures from that.

man_no_plan

SligoBrewer wrote: »

Every sub teacher is on a zero hours contract so you can deduce figures from that.

Not really

r93kaey5p2izun

Actual zero hours contracts have been common in my ETB. Each school had 3-5 people on zero hours contracts to cover all substitution. Nothing shorter than a maternity leave is advertised and these teachers cover everything. They may, after November, be given a few timetabled hours too, but the contract remains the same and most of their work is day to day subbing. I see many schools in my ETB are still advertising for such an arrangement at the moment. They have struggled to get people this year, though there are two people in my school doing it.

MrJones1973

A no vote is a no vote even though I voted Yes. My hope is now three unions put a ballot to all three unions calling for industrial action. Such a ballot should have a proviso that all three unions must back ballot or at least two .
Then we have some chance. I have always said I would back industrial action if balloted.
A year of a phoney war again would be disastrous.

Margin doesn't matter.