ASTI Ballot results **SEE MOD ANNOUNCEMENT IN LAST POST***

deiseindublin

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

If the asti proposes strike action with or without the other unions then I shall vote yes.

I can't get my head around you voting Yes to this crock of s**t but prepared to vote Yes to strike. You nearly didn't give the ASTI the opportunity to have a ballot for strike.

Btw - I get that you want to stop the piss arsing around, that's fair enough, but I don't get advocating a Yes to a crap agreement, therefore vetoing a ballot if new agreement was passed.

Sir123

deiseindublin wrote: »

I can't get my head around you voting Yes to this crock of s**t but prepared to vote Yes to strike. You nearly didn't give the ASTI the opportunity to have a ballot for strike.

Btw - I get that you want to stop the piss arsing around, that's fair enough, but I don't get advocating a Yes to a crap agreement, therefore vetoing a ballot if new agreement was passed.

I couldn't agree more with what deiseindublin has said.

Tbh, it will be interesting to see how CEC pans out in terms of resuming strike action etc. We need to be out before Christmas along with the other unions as these so called "talks" are never going to come to anything.

Our NO vote must be respected and to hell with "special conventions", ridiculous altogether.

P.S. I might sound very militant, but I feel that our terms and conditions will continue to be eroded if we don't stand up for ourselves.

MrJones1973

:rolleyes:

deiseindublin wrote: »

I can't get my head around you voting Yes to this crock of s**t but prepared to vote Yes to strike. You nearly didn't give the ASTI the opportunity to have a ballot for strike.

Btw - I get that you want to stop the piss arsing around, that's fair enough, but I don't get advocating a Yes to a crap agreement, therefore vetoing a ballot if new agreement was passed.

Well to be honest I still dont see the ASTI and its members getting their act together -with or without the TUI. We had a dream team last year in headquarters and it still didnt happen. So when I voted YES it was on the basis of not trusting the leadership or the members/ They would make the grand old duke of york blush. Cowards run in the ASTI family.
However-hope- that bastard- rises in me like a young fella with only ten minutes to closing in coppers . So if the three unions unite ,I would back that move. Even a two union strike would do. However I would not place a bet on this occurring and yes I occasionally gamble. If I was really cynical I would place a sizable bet on it NOT happening. A two union strike.
Members have ran from the strike option like a john who discovers his favorite hooker has VD.:p:p I would not be terribly optimistic.



Its now out of our hands-lets see what the executives do.
Im sure my post is fertile ground for virtue signalers!

Sir123

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Well to be honest I still dont see the ASTI and its members getting their act together -with or without the TUI. We had a dream team last year in headquarters and it still didnt happen. So when I voted YES it was on the basis of not trusting the leadership or the members/ They would make the grand old duke of york blush. Cowards run in the ASTI family.
However-hope- that bastard- rises in me like a young fella with only ten minutes to closing in coppers . So if the three unions unite ,I would back that move. Even a two union strike would do. However I would not place a bet on this occurring and yes I occasionally gamble. If I was really cynical I would place a sizable bet on it NOT happening. A two union strike.
Members have ran from the strike option like a john who discovers his favorite hooker has VD.:p:p I would not be terribly optimistic.



Its now out of our hands-lets see what the executives do.
Im sure my post is fertile ground for virtue signalers!

I've said it before and I think I'll need to say it again. Voting YES is treachery... this deal had nothing for teachers. In fact it actually makes a lot of their lives worse... erosion erosion erosion... (Pay and Conditions, including single pension scheme, extremely inferior).

I was actually shocked at how close this deal was, but it was still a NO and must be respected by all..

We cannot live in a society that differentiates between teachers and public servants based on the year they qualified.

There are plenty of people that are starting off in the private sector that I know, that have no education past their leaving cert, and they are still coming out with more money than me every two weeks..

There's something wrong there when you see this kinda thing. A long strike is the only way to resolve this issue as the government don't really care about education in this country anymore.. It's detoriating as we speak.

acequion

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Well to be honest I still dont see the ASTI and its members getting their act together -with or without the TUI. We had a dream team last year in headquarters and it still didnt happen. So when I voted YES it was on the basis of not trusting the leadership or the members/ They would make the grand old duke of york blush. Cowards run in the ASTI family.
However-hope- that bastard- rises in me like a young fella with only ten minutes to closing in coppers . So if the three unions unite ,I would back that move. Even a two union strike would do. However I would not place a bet on this occurring and yes I occasionally gamble. If I was really cynical I would place a sizable bet on it NOT happening. A two union strike.
Members have ran from the strike option like a john who discovers his favorite hooker has VD.:p:p I would not be terribly optimistic.

Its now out of our hands-lets see what the executives do.
Im sure my post is fertile ground for virtue signalers!

Look I agree with you on one thing and one thing only! And that is that only a strike will rattle Bruton. We're all weary,you know, but giving in only makes it worse. Nothing was ever achieved by pessimism and defeatism.

"Dream team" and "grand old Duke of York" are mantras to hide behind. What dream team? Last year we had a brand new GS. This year he's a little less brand new but from what I can see he hasn't yet been bought aka leaders like Nunan and Doran. Last year we had a great president. This year, just as good and next year as well, albeit with different styles. But excellent and committed as they are, there is only so far they can go when up against Fine Gael's neo liberal anti PS wall.

So give over about a "dream team" as there really is no such thing. It's all grit, graft, determination and saying NO to the constant erosion of teaching and education.

MrJones1973

Sir123 wrote: »

I've said it before and I think I'll need to say it again. Voting YES is treachery... this deal had nothing for teachers. In fact it actually makes a lot of their lives worse... erosion erosion erosion... (Pay and Conditions, including single pension scheme, extremely inferior).

I was actually shocked at how close this deal was, but it was still a NO and must be respected by all..

We cannot live in a society that differentiates between teachers and public servants based on the year they qualified.

There are plenty of people that are starting off in the private sector that I know, that have no education past their leaving cert, and they are still coming out with more money than me every two weeks..

There's something wrong there when you see this kinda thing. A long strike is the only way to resolve this issue as the government don't really care about education in this country anymore.. It's detoriating as we speak.

If that really is the situation with leaving cert qualified jobs getting more money then the shortage will get worse and that will aid equality but we are all in agreement about a long strike needed . I'm not terribly optimistic of that happening and attacking me for spelling out the truth won't change that bit hey I'm cheaper than therapy !
And you wonder why almost 50% of members voted yes and I'm the only poster who admits so? You need to stop with the court martial stuff about treachery and what not and get off your arses and convince people . Sloganeering and false statistics won't do it

Sir123

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

If that really is the situation with leaving cert qualified jobs getting more money then the shortage will get worse and that will aid equality but we are all in agreement about a long strike needed . I'm not terribly optimistic of that happening and attacking me for spelling out the truth won't change that bit hey I'm cheaper than therapy !
And you wonder why almost 50% of members voted yes and I'm the only poster who admits so? You need to stop with the court martial stuff about treachery and what not and get off your arses and convince people . Sloganeering and false statistics won't do it

I'm not attacking you at all MrWhite. As you have known for a while, I've been an avid NO voter and I'm simply expressing how I feel about the situation, in the same way you do and have done in the past for the Yes side.

The only therapy I could possibly need MrWhite is when this two tier payscale remains in place for eternity. That's looking very possible, unless we stand up for a lot of LPTs who are currently experiencing poor morale in the job, so to speak.

But like you said, at least we agree on something... that of striking. Hopefully we'll have a better idea after CEC meet next Wednesday.

MrJones1973

My hope is that the three unions agree a couple of days . If primary schools shut it would be significant. I think it noteworthy that we still don't have a new middle mgt structure in place for schools. Wellness indeed .

joebloggs32

Sir123 wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with what deiseindublin has said.

Tbh, it will be interesting to see how CEC pans out in terms of resuming strike action etc. We need to be out before Christmas along with the other unions as these so called "talks" are never going to come to anything.

Our NO vote must be respected and to hell with "special conventions", ridiculous altogether.

P.S. I might sound very militant, but I feel that our terms and conditions will continue to be eroded if we don't stand up for ourselves.

Going out before Christmas is madness. The Asti messed up their strategy last year and some people hear want to repeat the same mistakes. The government will piss themselves laughing at us going out in the middle of winter and pocket the savings from pay roll.
Attend the current talks. Wait for the new year and let the Lpts bank further pay rise due under LRA1. Once we get near orals and practicals then start announcing strikes if the government don't budge. We need leverage to force the governments hand, not like last year when they knew that they could sit tight.
We need to be more like Milwall FC...everyone hates us bit we don't care.

kala85

Regional , county by county strike is the way to go.

One county go out one day for a month and repeat it. Means the protest goes on for a month but the teachers are only out on one days strike.

Also non cooperation with croke park hours as and from January. At least that is a saving in terms of child care etc, and if the teachers were to stop doing croke park the rest of the public sector will be looking on.

We are also out of financial emergency and the femi legislation which imposes the pension levy is now illegal and should be challenged in the courts.why hasn't this been done?

wirelessdude01

kala85 wrote:

Regional , county by county strike is the way to go.

kala85 wrote:

One county go out one day for a month and repeat it. Means the protest goes on for a month but the teachers are only out on one days strike.

This approach or something quite similar was mentioned at our most recent INTO branch meeting.

MrJones1973

There won't be any quick removal of FEMPI because all parties realise how useful it is keeping us in check. I think the unions have a year to sort this out after that Brexit will start to be a real factor.
The British economy will continue to decline and that will affect Ireland.
We are a small open economy with a large amount of national debt . We can argue about the reasons for some of that debt but it ain't going away soon . Thus if Brexit starts to bite and I believe it will soon, you can kiss equality or partial equality goodbye
Across the entire dept of education the current situation saves about 70m but there is no exact figure for teachers but let's say 50m and that figure will be important if budget figures collapse which they might if Brexit bites hard
I think the teacher shortage will get worse and Brutons latest wheeze of quick qualification is just the start of fruitless initiatives that won't deliver.
One year to make progress

kala85

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

There won't be any quick removal of FEMPI because all parties realise how useful it is keeping us in check. I think the unions have a year to sort this out after that Brexit will start to be a real factor.
The British economy will continue to decline and that will affect Ireland.
We are a small open economy with a large amount of national debt . We can argue about the reasons for some of that debt but it ain't going away soon . Thus if Brexit starts to bite and I believe it will soon, you can kiss equality or partial equality goodbye
Across the entire dept of education the current situation saves about 70m but there is no exact figure for teachers but let's say 50m and that figure will be important if budget figures collapse which they might if Brexit bites hard
I think the teacher shortage will get worse and Brutons latest wheeze of quick qualification is just the start of fruitless initiatives that won't deliver.
One year to make progress

Why can't the unions challenge the legality of Fempi in the courts

judeboy101

kala85 wrote: »

Regional , county by county strike is the way to go.

One county go out one day for a month and repeat it. Means the protest goes on for a month but the teachers are only out on one days strike.

Also non cooperation with croke park hours as and from January. At least that is a saving in terms of child care etc, and if the teachers were to stop doing croke park the rest of the public sector will be looking on.

We are also out of financial emergency and the femi legislation which imposes the pension levy is now illegal and should be challenged in the courts.why hasn't this been done?

One county a day, not a month. That way its continuous in the media and in ppls faces. At most you lose 4 days pay tween Jan and June but it would cause chaos.

kala85

judeboy101 wrote: »

One county a day, not a month. That way its continuous in the media and in ppls faces. At most you lose 4 days pay tween Jan and June but it would cause chaos.

Yes that's what I meant.

One different county a day and maybe divide Dublin into north and south or postal districts to cause even more hassle.

wirelessdude01

I think that we would also need 1/2 national strike days thrown into the mix as well. Give as little notice as is required for max impact as well.

MrJones1973

I think legal challenge was explored for fempi and not thought worth it. To be fair court cases of this nature are a lottery. It should really be an ICTU thing but ICTU as a whole are pretty useless . One must recall that David begg sat on central bank board and thought there was nothing wrong with 100% mortgages.
Part of teachers problems is that they want to be loved by the middle class media and tend to vote for civil war parties or the labour party . If you wanted gay marriage or church bashing the labour party was fine but anything beyond that and they were pretty useless except perhaps for letting fine gael be too much of a butcher .
Though to be fair acting as a brake for FG was an achievement given that even the IMF said we cut too much . Can you imagine FG on their own ??
Anyway if you support fempi you vote ff/fg/lab

MrJones1973

Cec meeting Wednesday so we should have some news then.Yes it's on a Wednesday!

Benicetomonty

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/public-servants-outside-pay-deal-face-nine-month-delay-in-salary-increases-1.3282805

Could be a provocative move.

MrJones1973

From what I hear asti will definitely be balloted on LR one because technically we never entered that agreement we just suspended action.The ballot is to avoid us being penalised for LR one and two -assuming we take industrial action against lR 2 .The into and tui can't be penalised for LR one as they accepted it.
I find the above confusing myself as I thought new agreements de facto take in old agreements but the man who told me that is a reliable source

km79

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

From what I hear asti will definitely be balloted on LR one because technically we never entered that agreement we just suspended action.The ballot is to avoid us being penalised for LR one and two -assuming we take industrial action against lR 2 .The into and tui can't be penalised for LR one as they accepted it.
I find the above confusing myself as I thought new agreements de facto take in old agreements but the man who told me that is a reliable source

Ballots about old agreements now
Jaysus
People are worn out with it all now

MrJones1973

km79 wrote: »

Ballots about old agreements now
Jaysus
People are worn out with it all now

I appreciate that but teaching will go down the tubes without equality or a movement towards. I have always been willing to go out for a few weeks . I suggested to asti that they survey lpt's but they politely told me to fxxx off. To see their views as it's for them all this.
So I wait and see . If tui and into involved we have some chance but I would not vote for industrial action without clarification on their involvement and I doubt it would pass without such involvement.
You can shoot the messenger but I speak the truth

Chancer3001

Such a pessimistic tone to the majority of your posts Mr white.
You were full sure the last vote would have been accepted too.

Of course you'll claim realism. But we voted no. Hopefully we can strike something of a better deal for ourselves now.

Icsics

Any word from CEC?

Moody_mona

http://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/asti-to-continue-suspension-of-industrial-action-pending-outcome-of-new-entrant-pay-talks/

judeboy101

Re ballot on LR1 was rejected and lifting of suspension of IA was rejected.

km79

judeboy101 wrote: »

Re ballot on LR1 was rejected and lifting of suspension of IA was rejected.

So what’s the plan going forward ?

judeboy101

km79 wrote: »

So what’s the plan going forward ?

https://tenor.com/tr19.gif

Sir123

I'm getting the impression that ASTI are going to participate in talks with the INTO and the TUI up to around January/February. It is then that the unions may decide to all take action together. I suppose this may be a better senario. Play the government at their own game. Then the New Year approaches, we are penalised for not signing up to LRA2, we wait a few weeks and then we strike. Pre exams are disrupted, orals disrupted etc.

This may be the only way to do it because the talks are going to prove useless when they conclude, if they ever do. They will be dragged on for as long as the government can hold.
I personally thought that ASTI suspension of industrial action might have been lifted. By holding on and waiting for the other teacher unions can ensure we are all in this together, provided the INTO and TUI don't let us down, which they have done in the past unfortunately.

km79

Sir123 wrote: »

I'm getting the impression that ASTI are going to participate in talks with the INTO and the TUI up to around January/February. It is then that the unions may decide to all take action together. I suppose this may be a better senario. Play the government at their own game. Then the New Year approaches, we are penalised for not signing up to LRA2, we wait a few weeks and then we strike. Pre exams are disrupted, orals disrupted etc.

This may be the only way to do it because the talks are going to prove useless when they conclude, if they ever do. They will be dragged on for as long as the government can hold.
I personally thought that ASTI suspension of industrial action may be lifted, buy holding on and waiting for the other teacher unions can ensure we are all in this together, provided the INTO and TUI don't let us down, which they have done in the past unfortunately.

I thought we were not going to be penalised for not signing up
Only penalised if we took Ind action and thus repudiated it