Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Ex RTÉ producer sentenced to 18 months in prison

Options
1…468910

Comments

  • Options
    #152
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,306 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »
    Did anyone see the interview last night on the Pat Kenny show? It seems that anyone who questions these vigilante's methods is a paedophile sympathizer which is absolutely ridiculous. If they really cared or are serious about protecting children why don't they just hand the evidence over to the police without broadcasting it live all over facebook?

    Just caught up with it online. Ian O' Doherty totally annihilated Phil I though. Ian hammered home the point quite rightly that if we were were to accept these groups then we are saying we are okay with vigilantism and inferred its then acceptable in relation to all crimes. Where would we be then.

    It was rather comical I though that after Phil explained how their group do things in a processional manner that he then proceeded to loose the rag with Ian to the point it looked like it might come to fisticuffs. I'm not particularly convinced that Phil is capable of keeping his cool when on the job.

    Ian cleverly made sure to bring up the point about Phil concealing his full name. It wouldn't surprise me if we had his full name a goggle search might reveal some not so flattering facts about Mr Phil such as a court appearance perhaps. It makes me wonder how many of these guys in all the groups who say they gave up work to peruse a career in saving children actually have very poor employment prospects due to say a criminal record. I just can't stop wondering what all that face mask thing is about. You'd think they wan't to be recognized on the street no?

    I didn't realise there were as many as 77 separate attacks by these groups in NI in the last 2 years, as Ian said. Even more interesting is that with figures like that there has been precious little news or comment about those facts from either the PNSI or any politician, that I have heard.

    end of the road wrote: »
    i never thought of that possibility. who would be putting them up to it and supporting them i wonder?

    I have a theory about that that I won't go into too much now suffice to say I have noticed that when it comes to crimes that involve the use of computers the British police seem to be all over it but when computers are not particularly involved as in the Telford case they don't seem to be so quite on the ball.

    Btw I loved Phills hoody. It looked like one of those college hoddies - perhaps he's done a conversion course in predator catching.


  • Options
    #153
    Jim Bob Scratcher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Jim Bob Scratcher


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Just caught up with it online. Ian O' Doherty totally annihilated Phil I though. Ian hammered home the point quite rightly that if we were were to accept these groups then we are saying we are okay with vigilantism and inferred its then acceptable in relation to all crimes. Where would we be then.

    It was rather comical I though that after Phil explained how their group do things in a processional manner that he then proceeded to loose the rag with Ian to the point it looked like it might come to fisticuffs. I'm not particularly convinced that Phil is capable of keeping his cool when on the job.

    Ian cleverly made sure to bring up the point about Phil concealing his full name. It wouldn't surprise me if we had his full name a goggle search might reveal some not so flattering facts about Mr Phil such as a court appearance perhaps. It makes me wonder how many of these guys in all the groups who say they gave up work to peruse a career in saving children actually have very poor employment prospects due to say a criminal record. I just can't stop wondering what all that face mask thing is about. You'd think they wan't to be recognized on the street no?

    I didn't realise there were as many as 77 separate attacks by these groups in NI in the last 2 years, as Ian said. Even more interesting is that with figures like that there has been precious little news or comment about those facts from either the PNSI or any politician, that I have heard.




    I have a theory about that that I won't go into too much now suffice to say I have noticed that when it comes to crimes that involve the use of computers the British police seem to be all over it but when computers are not particularly involved as in the Telford case they don't seem to be so quite on the ball.

    Btw I loved Phills hoody. It looked like one of those college hoddies - perhaps he's done a conversion course in predator catching.

    I think yer man Phil did some porridge for armed robbery, but he is an upstanding citizen now :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #154
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    McCrack wrote: »
    Unfortunately the reality is by the time evidence comes to light by the police the sexual abuse has already occured.

    By its very nature the abuse will only come to police attention after it has been committed.

    The pedo hunters identify and expose potential threats before they have the opportunity to carry out their abuse.

    And as I said in another post the guys these justice league catch are not the dangerous predators that are cunning and intelligent and successfully manipulate children and young teenagers. They are usually brain dead old fellas on okcupid who didn't even intend to meet children when they went on an 18+ dating website
    Most of these men are not even intelligent enough to lure or trick a 13 year old girl into meeting them
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/video/news/vigilante-group-silent-justice-collaring-suspected-irish-paedophile-in-naas/
    This...is just pathetic to watch. Do you think this man was actually a danger to society? I honestly do not think he is

    These guys are not improving the world at all. The police are doing the good work, not these lot
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5407931/Depraved-paedophile-used-blackmail-target-victims.html
    These are the dangerous people, and its why the police work is left to the police, competent and trained professionals


  • Options
    #155
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Dr Brown wrote: »
    McCrack wrote: »
    I applaud what they do.

    Police generally react after the damage is done.

    Pedo hunters identify and expose these predators before the damage is done. Their actions as ive explained previously are perfectly lawful.

    The RTE man is a great catch and one to be applauded by any right thinking person.

    Without the pedo hunters that scumbag from RTE would be still out there free to abuse kids.

    You can question their methods but you can't question their results.
    I know they get results, but in this department we do things by the book!


  • Options
    #156
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    McCrack wrote: »
    I applaud what they do.

    Police generally react after the damage is done.

    Pedo hunters identify and expose these predators before the damage is done. Their actions as ive explained previously are perfectly lawful.

    The RTE man is a great catch and one to be applauded by any right thinking person.

    Their actions are certainly not lawful. What happens if they "detain" an innocent man on the street and live stream the whole thing on Facebook. That would be 100% criminal and illegal.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #157
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Their actions are certainly not lawful. What happens if they "detain" an innocent man on the street and live stream the whole thing on Facebook. That would be 100% criminal and illegal.

    There’s been so many videos live streamed and I haven’t heard of one person arrested over the act of live-streaming it?


  • Options
    #158
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Flippyfloppy wrote: »
    There’s been so many videos live streamed and I haven’t heard of one person arrested over the act of live-streaming it?

    That might happen in future, who knows? If the Gardai warn these groups to desist from their activities (as has happened in NI) and they carry on regardless, we could end up seeing prosecutions and the vigilantes before the courts.


  • Options
    #159
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Their actions are certainly not lawful. What happens if they "detain" an innocent man on the street and live stream the whole thing on Facebook. That would be 100% criminal and illegal.

    That argument is predicated only on the assumption that the target was "innocent"

    I am simply stating that they have a power of arrest in circumstance where an arrestable offence is committed and as I have pointed out use of information and communication technology to facilitate sexual exploitation of child (grooming) is an arrestable offence.

    You had previously stated that their actions were unlawful and that they did not have the power to detain which is just not correct.


  • Options
    #160
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,214 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Strazdas wrote: »
    That might happen in future, who knows? If the Gardai warn these groups to desist from their activities (as has happened in NI) and they carry on regardless, we could end up seeing prosecutions and the vigilantes before the courts.

    On what grounds? What powers do the gardai have to tell people to desist from lawful activities?


  • Options
    #161
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    On what grounds? What powers do the gardai have to tell people to desist from lawful activities?

    Three self styled vigilante group leaders were charged last week in Belfast with false imprisonment, intimidation and harassment in relation to such 'exposure' cases.

    You are supposed to hand any evidence you have of criminal activity over to the police and allow them proceed accordingly : you are not supposed to be detaining people on the street and carrying out arrests yourself.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #162
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Three self styled vigilante group leaders were charged last week in Belfast with false imprisonment, intimidation and harassment in relation to such 'exposure' cases.

    You are supposed to hand any evidence you have of criminal activity over to the police and allow them proceed accordingly : you are not supposed to be detaining people on the street and carrying out arrests yourself.

    But do you not understand/accept that the law provides that a person that is not a police officer can in fact lawfully detain/arrest another person on the street where that person has committed an arrestable offence - in this case grooming a child for the intention of committng sexual abuse/rape?


  • Options
    #163
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,214 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Three self styled vigilante group leaders were charged last week in Belfast with false imprisonment, intimidation and harassment in relation to such 'exposure' cases.

    You are supposed to hand any evidence you have of criminal activity over to the police and allow them proceed accordingly : you are not supposed to be detaining people on the street and carrying out arrests yourself.

    perhaps the PSNI were pissed off that these groups are doing a job they should be doing.


  • Options
    #164
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,691 ✭✭✭buried


    The vigilante groups just set a bad precedent. I can understand the frustration some of these people can feel with how poor the actual justice system handles these things, people see the whole Justice thing as nothing but a money making market at the courthouse with nothing but roundabout lenient sentencing from the courts so decide to take matters in to their own hands. But where do those hands stop? What are the rules? How do you stop it from becoming endemic from it being a famous live facebook feed showcase to everyone else? After this story broke I heard a few local young farmers down my local pub one night going on about how they should they set up something similar to catch the gangs of thieves they feel are terrorising their community, I doubt they meant it, maybe they did, still, It did not sound good. And it doesn't. I can understand their own frustrations too, but that sort of game can get easily out of control when your only rule or regulation for existing as a vigilante is that you are pissed off or really afraid. In that mindset you are liable to do anything to anyone because your hunt style justice is based on nothing but fear and panic. Not good.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Options
    #165
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    perhaps the PSNI were pissed off that these groups are doing a job they should be doing.


    not at all. the PSNI simply did their job because that is what they are paid for, and is what they are supposed to do.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #166
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,214 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    end of the road wrote: »
    not at all. the PSNI simply did their job because that is what they are paid for, and is what they are supposed to do.

    clearly that job doesn't include catching sexual predators.


  • Options
    #167
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    clearly that job doesn't include catching sexual predators.


    it does. and they should be given the funding and resources to do it properly.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #168
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    not sure if the guards are any better in terms of protection. They used their very power to slander maurice mcCabe in the worst possible way, calling him a PAEDO . And this came from the top, by all accounts.

    On the argument, as to if it's it's "credible" to arrest once the child is fictional, what's the difference between someone posing as a child on line and an undercover cop posing as a gun runner, drug dealer, dirtbag to gain confidence and elicit a suspected criminal activity for the purpose of preventing future crimes?? It's interesting but I think it holds up.

    I just agree that phil, who couldn't string a sentence together unless it was a 12 month one.......was a bad poster boy..He could have caught that ****wit O' Doherty out easily if he stayed calm and was clever.


  • Options
    #169
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    McCrack wrote: »
    But do you not understand/accept that the law provides that a person that is not a police officer can in fact lawfully detain/arrest another person on the street where that person has committed an arrestable offence - in this case grooming a child for the intention of committng sexual abuse/rape?

    I could decide that you have committed an offence and me and eight of my mates "detain" you on the street tomorrow for an hour (whist streaming the whole thing live on Facebook). Where does it all end? There's supposed to be only legitimate police force and if you have evidence of a crime, you're meant to give it to them so that they can decide what to do with it.

    You as a private citizen are not supposed to be making decisions for them about what is unlawful and who needs to be arrested : that's meant to be solely a matter for the police and the courts, otherwise you're trying to set yourself up as a private police force.


  • Options
    #170
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    Strazdas wrote: »
    I could decide that you have committed an offence and me and eight of my mates "detain" you on the street tomorrow for an hour (whist streaming the whole thing live on Facebook). Where does it all end? There's supposed to be only legitimate police force and if you have evidence of a crime, you're meant to give it to them so that they can decide what to do with it.

    You as a private citizen are not supposed to be making decisions for them about what is unlawful and who needs to be arrested : that's meant to be solely a matter for the police and the courts, otherwise you're trying to set yourself up as a private police force.

    Will it ever get that far? Apart from the usual traditional vigilante groups that have existed for a long time, and will continue to do so as long as people feel afraid and unprotected.

    Will people try and detain people in this way for different offenses? I can’t see that happening because people are extremely frustrated with the lack of policing around sexual predators on the internet, as well as lenient (suspended) sentences handed down for the most horrifying of crimes. I just don’t see any other crimes that people will be bothered putting in the organisation, time and effort that goes into these paedophile hunting groups.


  • Options
    #171
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Three self styled vigilante group leaders were charged last week in Belfast with false imprisonment, intimidation and harassment in relation to such 'exposure' cases.

    You are supposed to hand any evidence you have of criminal activity over to the police and allow them proceed accordingly : you are not supposed to be detaining people on the street and carrying out arrests yourself.

    You do know Belfast and Dublin, hell even Dundalk, are completely different jurisdictions with completely different laws??


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #172
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Also, vigilante infers taking the law into their own hands. These people do not, they aggregate evidence, snare the scum and normally have called the police before they confront and detain them.


  • Options
    #173
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Also, vigilante infers taking the law into their own hands. These people do not, they aggregate evidence, snare the scum and normally have called the police before they confront and detain them.

    ergo they take the law into their own hands, ergo vigilante is what they them only doing it in part doesn't ultimately change what they are.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Options
    #174
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Also, vigilante infers taking the law into their own hands. These people do not, they aggregate evidence, snare the scum and normally have called the police before they confront and detain them.

    What gives them the right to 'confront and detain' anyone? The person they are confronting could be completely innocent, meaning the group are harassing and intimidating them.

    These individuals are not the police and are not operating with the permission or approval of the Gardai. A citizen's arrest is meant to be something that happens once in your lifetime. If you are doing it regularly, it means you have set yourself up as a professional vigilante.


  • Options
    #175
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Strazdas wrote: »
    What gives them the right to 'confront and detain' anyone? The person they are confronting could be completely innocent, meaning the group are harassing and intimidating them.

    These individuals are not the police and are not operating with the permission or approval of the Gardai. A citizen's arrest is meant to be something that happens once in your lifetime. If you are doing it regularly, it means you have set yourself up as a professional vigilante.

    The LAW gives people the right to confront and detain someone for an arrestable offence. Could you point me in the direction of the act that states that a citizens arrest is a once in a lifetime thing??


  • Options
    #176
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    The LAW gives people the right to confront and detain someone for an arrestable offence. Could you point me in the direction of the act that states that a citizens arrest is a once in a lifetime thing??

    If they want to arrest people then they join the police force. They shouldn't be doing this and theres no excuse for vigilanteism


  • Options
    #177
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    wakka12 wrote: »
    If they want to arrest people then they join the police force. They shouldn't be doing this and theres no excuse for vigilanteism

    I think you need to look up the definition of what a vigilante actually is

    Groups that exposure child sexual abusers are perfectly entitled to do what they do because the law entitles them to do it


  • Options
    #178
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    wakka12 wrote: »
    If they want to arrest people then they join the police force. They shouldn't be doing this and theres no excuse for vigilanteism

    LEGALLY detaining someone is vigilantism now?? Any sign of that once in a lifetime citizens arrest rule yet??


  • Options
    #179
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,126 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    LEGALLY detaining someone is vigilantism now?? Any sign of that once in a lifetime citizens arrest rule yet??

    Do you know how many people have been charged in the ROI and NI after one of these "citizen's arrest" by vigilante groups? I can give you the precise figure : zero (meaning they are completely wasting police time and resources).


  • Options
    #180
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Do you know how many people have been charged in the ROI and NI after one of these "citizen's arrest" by vigilante groups? I can give you the precise figure : zero (meaning they are completely wasting police time and resources).

    You do understand that it can takes many months for the PPS/DPP to prefer charges?

    There are many examples in the UK of child abusers being brought before the courts because of the good work being voluntarily done by these groups. Our own RTE man sure.

    And ive no doubt either that the publicity that these arrests generate has deterred other abusers from trying to groom children online for their own perverse enjoyment


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #181
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Do you know how many people have been charged in the ROI and NI after one of these "citizen's arrest" by vigilante groups? I can give you the precise figure : zero (meaning they are completely wasting police time and resources).

    That’s terrible. Gardai should be thankful for the help. These concerned citizens aren’t breaking any laws by detaining paedos. How many have been charged with “wasting police time” (which is illegal and chargeable) in NI or ROI??


Advertisement