Ex RTÉ producer sentenced to 18 months in prison

end of the road

Strazdas wrote: »

And they've taken to wearing black uniforms / jackets with the name of the vigilante group printed on them. It's so obvious they are trying to set themselves up as some sort of militia or alternative police force.

It's no wonder the PSNI have taken to prosecuting the vigilantes and treating them as criminals. A gang of 8 or 10 people surrounding a person and preventing them from moving for an hour (whilst screaming abuse in their face and live streaming it on Facebook) is clearly a criminal act. Only the police force have the legal right to stop and detain people on the street, absolutely nobody else.

that's good to hear the PSNI are prosecuting this lot. maybe eventually the uk police will get the balls to do it if they can. these groups may claim they are operating fully within the law but lets be real, they aren't trained legal experts so there is likely something the police could get them on if they really wanted.
if these groups cared so much about children, instead of doing what they are, they would be out protesting and calling for life sentences for paedophiles and any other child abusers. they would actually have support if they did that.

McCrack wrote: »

There is a lot of inaccuracy in this thread

Please look up Criminal Law Act 1997 and in particular Section 4 which permits any person to arrest another that has committed an arrestable offence

only if a policeman is persuing the person being arrested from what i understand. for example, a suspect is running away and a policeman is coming after them and i trip the suspect up.

AllForIt

Pat Kenny tonight at 10pm talking to the vigilant group.

https://www.joe.ie/movies-tv/pat-kenny-predator-exposure-619380

Hector Savage

Also, lets say someone is about to shoplift ... but chickens out and doesn't do it ... so hasn't committed an offence, can they be done for it ?

In this case too, I mean we all are fairly certain he would have acted if there had been a girl there, but there wasn't and he didn't.

Who knows how people would act, maybe chatting online is one thing but when he saw the child in reality he would have copped on and walked away ?

It brings up a lot of tough questions, where do you draw the line on intent ...

Hoboo

McCrack wrote: »

There is a lot of inaccuracy in this thread

Please look up Criminal Law Act 1997 and in particular Section 4 which permits any person to arrest another that has committed an arrestable offence

An arrestable offence is defined as a crime punishable by more than 5 years in prison, you can not detain someone for any or every crime.

ohnonotgmail

Hector Savage wrote: »

Also, lets say someone is about to shoplift ... but chickens out and doesn't do it ... so hasn't committed an offence, can they be done for it ?

In this case too, I mean we all are fairly certain he would have acted if there had been a girl there, but there wasn't and he didn't.

Who knows how people would act, maybe chatting online is one thing but when he saw the child in reality he would have copped on and walked away ?

It brings up a lot of tough questions, where do you draw the line on intent ...

grooming a child is an offence in itself.

McCrack

Hoboo wrote: »

An arrestable offence is defined as a crime punishable by more than 5 years in prison, you can not detain someone for any or every crime.

Yes, hence why I specifically said "arrestable offence"

Strazdas

McCrack wrote: »

Yes, hence why I specifically said "arrestable offence"

If you have a trail of documentary or online evidence about a person you believe to have committed a crime or who is planning to commit one, you should pass that evidence onto the police and allow them to proceed as they see fit.

You do not have the right to surround the person along with eight of your mates on the street and illegally detain them for half an hour or an hour. There is only one legitimate police force.

end of the road

Strazdas wrote: »

If you have a trail of documentary or online evidence about a person you believe to have committed a crime or who is planning to commit one, you should pass that evidence onto the police and allow them to proceed as they see fit.

You do not have the right to surround the person along with eight of your mates on the street and illegally detain them for half an hour or an hour. There is only one legitimate police force.

exactly. and it will never be these "paedophile hunters"

McCrack

Strazdas wrote: »

If you have a trail of documentary or online evidence about a person you believe to have committed a crime or who is planning to commit one, you should pass that evidence onto the police and allow them to proceed as they see fit.

You do not have the right to surround the person along with eight of your mates on the street and illegally detain them for half an hour or an hour. There is only one legitimate police force.

But you see the right of arrest in a public place exists

Refer to Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1997

Use of information and communication technology to facilitate sexual exploitation of child is an offence under the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017 punishable on indictment up to 14 years - therefore it is an "arrestable offence" - therefore any person/s can detain/arrest another person in a public place for this offence.

Jim Bob Scratcher

AllForIt wrote: »

Pat Kenny tonight at 10pm talking to the vigilant group.

https://www.joe.ie/movies-tv/pat-kenny-predator-exposure-619380

I wonder will he be able to refrain from swearing?

Strazdas

McCrack wrote: »

But you see the right of arrest in a public place exists

Refer to Section 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1997

Use of information and communication technology to facilitate sexual exploitation of child is an offence under the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2017 punishable on indictment up to 14 years - therefore it is an "arrestable offence" - therefore any person/s can detain/arrest another person in a public place for this offence.

Catching someone who has just mugged somebody on the street or carried out a violent assault and with who there is a serious chance they might get away and never be identified is one thing.

Setting yourself up as a private police force, amassing evidence and then detaining or effectively 'arresting' people on the street is quite another. What if the person you detain turns out to be innocent? It means you have unlawfully imprisoned them for a period, as well as intimidated and harassed them.

AllForIt

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

I wonder will he be able to refrain from swearing?

Check out these numbskulls on LBC just last week.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/paedophile-vigilante-group-dark-justice-lbc/

I was rather surprised by this lowbrow interview by James O'Brien. For example he enquired as to what they did before they became hunters and they said they ran a media company. Pfff...they can hardly speak properly. Check out how they explain how they get away with using pics of young girls used for the entrapment - if you can understand a word they are saying - like. They seem to be very well supported on the legal side of things because they hardly figured out all that by themselves did they. It's almost like someone is putting them up to it.

McCrack

Strazdas wrote: »

Catching someone who has just mugged somebody on the street or carried out a violent assault and with who there is a serious chance they might get away and never be identified is one thing.

Setting yourself up as a private police force, amassing evidence and then detaining or effectively 'arresting' people on the street is quite another. What if the person you detain turns out to be innocent? It means you have unlawfully imprisoned them for a period, as well as intimidated and harassed them.

Remedies exist both civil and criminal for false imprisonment and defamation.

I was simply pointing out that the actions of these groups are perfectly lawful and they can exercise powers of arrest - in fact any person can once an arrestable offence has been commited and as Ive said using technology to facilitate sexual exploitation of a child is an arrestable offence.

end of the road

AllForIt wrote: »

Check out these numbskulls on LBC just last week.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/paedophile-vigilante-group-dark-justice-lbc/

I was rather surprised by this lowbrow interview by James O'Brien. For example he enquired as to what they did before they became hunters and they said they ran a media company. Pfff...they can hardly speak properly. Check out how they explain how they get away with using pics of young girls used for the entrapment - if you can understand a word they are saying - like. They seem to be very well supported on the legal side of things because they hardly figured out all that by themselves did they. It's almost like someone is putting them up to it.

i never thought of that possibility. who would be putting them up to it and supporting them i wonder?

Hector Savage

AllForIt wrote: »

Check out these numbskulls on LBC just last week.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/paedophile-vigilante-group-dark-justice-lbc/

I was rather surprised by this lowbrow interview by James O'Brien. For example he enquired as to what they did before they became hunters and they said they ran a media company. Pfff...they can hardly speak properly. Check out how they explain how they get away with using pics of young girls used for the entrapment - if you can understand a word they are saying - like. They seem to be very well supported on the legal side of things because they hardly figured out all that by themselves did they. It's almost like someone is putting them up to it.

Says it all, look at them wearing the masks - total and utter scum.

He can barely articulate himself here, just some toerag that wants to feel big - he doesn't give a **** about the kids.

Strazdas

McCrack wrote: »

Remedies exist both civil and criminal for false imprisonment and defamation.

I was simply pointing out that the actions of these groups are perfectly lawful and they can exercise powers of arrest - in fact any person can once an arrestable offence has been commited and as Ive said using technology to facilitate sexual exploitation of a child is an arrestable offence.

There is still only one legitimate police force. The real police want nothing to do with vigilantes.In Northern Ireland, the PSNI have taken to prosecuting such vigilantes and have warned other such groups to desist from their activities immediately and that their actions may be criminal.

1hnr79jr65

he didnt get enough time in jail.

Flippyfloppy

Strazdas wrote: »

There is still only one legitimate police force. The real police want nothing to do with vigilantes.In Northern Ireland, the PSNI have taken to prosecuting such vigilantes and have warned other such groups to desist from their activities immediately and that their actions may be criminal.

Regarding vigilantes, dont such groups resort to violence? I haven't seen any 'paedophile hunters' resort to violence, just stand there and pass time usually >45mins) until the Gardai arrive.

pilly

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

Regarding vigilantes, dont such groups resort to violence? I haven't seen any 'paedophile hunters' resort to violence, just stand there and pass time usually >45mins) until the Gardai arrive.

I wouldn't call what they do pass time. They usually verbally abuse the person constantly for that 45 minutes. Not that the paedos don't deserve it but I'm not sure of the merits of live broadcasting it all.

Flippyfloppy

pilly wrote: »

I wouldn't call what they do pass time. They usually verbally abuse the person constantly for that 45 minutes. Not that the paedos don't deserve it but I'm not sure of the merits of live broadcasting it all.

That's true, I have heard verbal abuse from some of them.

I find it irritating that in places like the U.S. you can enter in any postcode to their sex offender website and instantly see if there is (and there always is) sex offenders in your area.

I know what the groups are doing isn't 100% right but in the absence of a public sex offenders register, and as I personally know of young teenagers exploited via the internet who received SFA help from the Gardai in the matters, I'm glad of these groups presence in a way. Hoping it will lead to some changes down the line!

pilly

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

That's true, I have heard verbal abuse from some of them.

I find it irritating that in places like the U.S. you can enter in any postcode to their sex offender website and instantly see if there is (and there always is) sex offenders in your area.

I know what the groups are doing isn't 100% right but in the absence of a public sex offenders register, and as I personally know of young teenagers exploited via the internet who received SFA help from the Gardai in the matters, I'm glad of these groups presence in a way. Hoping it will lead to some changes down the line!

So if there are sex offenders in every single area what's the point in knowing?

ohnonotgmail

pilly wrote: »

So if there are sex offenders in every single area what's the point in knowing?

would you not like to know that some person down the road is a sex offender so you can make sure your kids are kept away from them?

pilly

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

would you not like to know that some person down the road is a sex offender so you can make sure your kids are kept away from them?

I'm not actually sure tbh, if what the poster says is true and they're in every area then I think it's then more about keeping your kids safe from strangers in general which I think most mums do.

I wouldn't like the paranoia that goes with constantly watching one person. It's about watching your kids.

ohnonotgmail

pilly wrote: »

I'm not actually sure tbh, if what the poster says is true and they're in every area then I think it's then more about keeping your kids safe from strangers in general which I think most mums do.

I wouldn't like the paranoia that goes with constantly watching one person. It's about watching your kids.

you are assuming that they are all strangers. You wouldn't like to know if somebody that you were acquainted with was a sex offender?

pilly

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are assuming that they are all strangers. You wouldn't like to know if somebody that you were acquainted with was a sex offender?

Yeah, fair point.

Feisar

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

grooming a child is an offence in itself.

In this instance there was no child though. So may I ask, what did is the actual offence here?

I'm in no way trying to defend this lad or say he shouldn't be locked up. I'm just trying to understand the actual crime committed.

splinter65

pilly wrote: »

So if there are sex offenders in every single area what's the point in knowing?

There’s no point. For every identified sex offender in your area there’s loads more that are operating under the radar hoping not to get caught.
If everyone just made sure that they knew where their kids are and who they are with and didn’t leave them unattended in the company of adults they don’t know then paedophiles couldn’t act.

ohnonotgmail

Feisar wrote: »

In this instance there was no child though. So may I ask, what did is the actual offence here?

I'm in no way trying to defend this lad or say he shouldn't be locked up. I'm just trying to understand the actual crime committed.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/act/2/section/8/enacted/en/html#sec8

If the offender thinks they are communicating with a child that is sufficient.

pilly

splinter65 wrote:

There’s no point. For every identified sex offender in your area there’s loads more that are operating under the radar hoping not to get caught. If everyone just made sure that they knew where their kids are and who they are with and didn’t leave them unattended in the company of adults they don’t know then paedophiles couldn’t act.

Agree but as was pointed out above it could easily be someone you do know.

splinter65

pilly wrote: »

Agree but as was pointed out above it could easily be someone you do know.

I have one child a girl now aged 20. I welcomed all her friends into our house for all these years. My husband, her father, managed to never ever find himself alone in a room with anyone else’s child.
The parents of these kids would consider I suppose that they know us.
My own daughter went to other people’s houses of course but from she was very young she knew that no one was allowed to put their hands on her under any circumstances, ever, and that no matter what anyone else said , she could tell me absolutely anything including that she’d murdered someone and that I’d sort it all out.