The Alpha Male - does he really exist?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 10-01-2018 2:40pm

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

No offence amigo, but if you’re standing outside a door in a Schott jacket then you ain’t no alpha. A meathead, maybe. If you owned the nightclub then you might be alpha.

Don't worry about it.

'Rumpy Pumpy' from the internet is never going to offend me.

Now if someone like (for example) Wibbs who's views and opinions I have a lot of respect for said that I might be every so slightly offended, but 'Rumpy Pumpy' meh. Anyway like the other lad answer if you wish but I won't be entertaining you any further.

Back to the discussion.

I'd an interesting alfa male stand off with a cat of all things many years ago.

I had a cat who hated me, hissed at me all day and would just stare at me with venom. I mentioned it to a Judo friend of mine who is a Vet.. She said its because the cat was a Tom and I'm a very strong male presence in his environment, and there was an 'alfa male' battle going on in the cats mind ~ and that I should be careful it didn't attack me sometime.

Tigger has since passed on, but my new cat 'Kitler' is a female and has me scrouged for affection (and food).

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 10-01-2018 2:51pm

The amount of PUAs who argue it's not a numbers game while pasting the exact same post over and over in the hope that if they do it enough times it'll work on someone makes me think a lot of them might not be too clear on what's meant by the term.

21Savage · 10-01-2018 2:54pm

Gunner Panicky Quadrilateral wrote: »

I do think they exist and I think sometimes the ones you meet (in real life) can be some of the nicest and uncomplicated men. I'm too suspicious of self proclaimed nice guys. I've known too many "nice guys" who have been anything but underneath, insecure and needy and nasty if they're not getting their own way.

I like guys who know their own mind, knows what they want from life, strong and confident, bit of a prick on the outside but quite soft and kind on the inside. I don't want to have to hold any mans hand going through life, reassuring him constantly and feeding into a neediness.

It's probably because you are attracted to them that you give them the benefit of the doubt. Being a prick on the outside sounds like they're horrible but because they say 'I love you baby' they are somehow better than a nice guy.

One of my friends is like that. Tough gregarious demeanour, true alpha but he's also a prick but he gets away with because he'll say something soft or sweet from time to time that makes girls think he has a 'good heart'.
The world would be much better off with these nice guys that you are quick to deride.

Supernintento Chalmers · 10-01-2018 2:58pm

Fatima Damaged Beehive wrote: »

I'd tick a lot of the boxes for being alfa.. Military career, bouncer for over 20 years, Judo black belt, 6'1'' and built, biker (rarely ride less than a 1000cc).

But I can be soft as hell, for example the end of the movie 'The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas'. I was absolutely bawling and couldn't look up at the screen.

Although I'm very straight and have never had a single gay thought I'd consider myself 'gay friendly' and have always said that if I was single and met a guy who made me happy I'd like to think I'd go with that.

I do believe in Alfa males, I think I'm alfa.. Dunno, OP you recently said a photo I posted of myself was how you imagined I'd look, do I come across as alfa?.

Oh, I'm not a natural leader but I find a lot of people look to me for leadership.

[I'm 52 in March if that matters]

Do you own an Alfa Romeo? Do you wear an Alfa Romeo jacket while driving your Alfa Romeo?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-01-2018 3:04pm

21Savage wrote: »

It's probably because you are attracted to them that you give them the benefit of the doubt. Being a prick on the outside sounds like they're horrible but because they say 'I love you baby' they are somehow better than a nice guy.

One of my friends is like that. Tough gregarious demeanour, true alpha but he's also a prick but he gets away with because he'll say something soft or sweet from time to time that makes girls think he has a 'good heart'.
The world would be much better off with these nice guys that you are quick to deride.

If I tell a bad boy I'm not interested, he will respect that.
If I tell a self proclaimed nice guy I'm not interested, he'll rattle off "nice guys get nowhere, do I need to treat you like a cûnt to get you to like me? You're a shallow bitch. Don't come crying to me when he breaks your heart. You'll be sorry when he's cheating on you. You're an ugly bitch anyway" etc etc etc
That's not a nice guy. That's a guy who assumes you're obligated to find him attractive because he's appeared to be nice to you.

Of course there are genuine nice guys out there, I know plenty of lovely kind guys but for me personally confidence is key

Wibbs · 10-01-2018 3:10pm

Stella Stocky Watt wrote: »

The amount of PUAs who argue it's not a numbers game while pasting the exact same post over and over in the hope that if they do it enough times it'll work on someone makes me think a lot of them might not be too clear on what's meant by the term.

Well that's another danger with this stuff, it can become very obsessive and that type of guys it attracts tend to be the obsessive type to start with.

And of course it's a numbers game. A few of the more honest PUA guys will be the first to say that. That they'd need say 50 or 100 approaches to get a result. Never mind that it has to be a numbers game for obvious reasons. Take say 50 women, how many will be single? How many will simply not like a guy's particular look? How many will simply not like a guy's particular personality(invented or real)? So outa that 50 and on your best day you might have 5 or 10 that might be open to the guy. Open, still a maybe, not committed beyond talking at that point. Hell, say you snog after some beerage, she might give you a fake number, she may just want the snog.

Of course these bigger money US outfits have all this covered. Suggesting that a guy with their "Method™ can get most of these women, even those with boyfriends. Though why any man would want a woman who although is with someone else will hop on your bones on a whim. That's relationship material right there folks. But anyway their target audience laps this stuff up. They don't know how social interaction plays out and they are all adrift around women, so they'll believe this BS. They want to believe this BS.

And the bigger PUA outfits have a nice range of male archetypes so the audience will identify with at least one. So you have the "weirdo", the fat guy, the autistic spectrum guy, the socially inappropriate guy, the skinny guy etc etc with loads of videos(infields as the term them) showing each talking to and even pulling some Babe™ or other. All of which are either women being polite, even sometimes giving their number just to get away, or drunk women or hired models/actresses. They're the ones they "pull". It's such a bloody scam.

10-01-2018 3:14pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Cue the snake oil peddlers on the interwebs, who promise them they can get that babe in the club/street and here's how.

Excellent Post, Wibbs.

I'd point out a few things though. I was bullied extensively in primary and secondary school, being put in the hospital on four occasions due to beatings. Why? Because I had a shaking disorder, and my parents were teachers in my school. I shake more when I'm nervous or excited. Adrenaline is the danger. When it came to girls, I did fine until I was a mid-teen when I was very publicly cheated on by my first "girlfriend". When you're young, not terribly in control of your emotions, and already isolated from most people, it's easy to feel apart from everything. I was essentially a ghost.

While other people were learning how to play in teams, forming friendships, etc, I was skirting the edges of things trying not to show up on anyone's radar. Then, came college, and I got away from everything and started afresh. But I was still me. Still afraid of other people, and untrusting of gestures of friendship or intimacy. In the end, I found others like myself.

It took me a very long time to get past the pain and distrust i had for others. And when it came to general dating, I didn't have the skills that others had learned in school, or elsewhere. And there is nobody less sympathetic than a girl being approached when she's in company with her friends. Very easy to be discouraged.

First, you get advice from your male friends, but, they're mostly the same as yourself. One or two might have a girlfriend but no real clue as to how that happened. Then comes the advice from female friends... who frankly have less of an idea about dating than the guys. Then you read some books like *Men are from Mars, women from Venus", and you think, "Huh?". You find the ****ty PUA seduction.alt.fast forums, read for a while and think that while you might not like people, but you don't hate anyone enough to behave this way (or you do and embrace it). Personally, I was saved from all that due to a seminar by Ross Jeffries which encouraged respect for women and respect for ourselves.

I'm not ever going to defend PUA. Mainstream PUA is horrible (even without the Red Pill attitude) and incredibly unhealthy for anyone involved.

Wibbs · 10-01-2018 3:15pm

Gunner Panicky Quadrilateral wrote: »

If I tell a bad boy I'm not interested, he will respect that.
If I tell a self proclaimed nice guy I'm not interested, he'll rattle off "nice guys get nowhere, do I need to treat you like a cûnt to get you to like me? You're a shallow bitch. Don't come crying to me when he breaks your heart. You'll be sorry when he's cheating on you. You're an ugly bitch anyway" etc etc etc
That's not a nice guy. That's a guy who assumes you're obligated to find him attractive because he's appeared to be nice to you.

And the other difference tends to be the "bad boy" has had and has more options, so he might be disappointed you turned him down, but a) he asks you early on and b) he instinctively knows your not the only fish in the sea as it were.

I have noted that many "good guys/inexperienced guys" tend to meet a woman, think that becoming her friend is the way forward and then tend to get a bit obsessive about just her, so when she says she's not interested she's the only fish in the sea for him. Now some women can be right **** in this dynamic too and use the "nice guy" knowing he's into her.

21Savage · 10-01-2018 3:15pm

Check out Conor Murphy on youtube, he's proof it's not what you say but how you look that will attract women. He's a low IQ and awkward but pulls tail like crazy

Wibbs · 10-01-2018 3:27pm

21Savage wrote: »

He's a low IQ and awkward but pulls tail like crazy

A certain kind of "tail". If dippy women with an air gap in lieu of a brain is a guy's thing, but...

Wibbs · 10-01-2018 3:30pm

Gunner Panicky Quadrilateral wrote: »

I personally couldn't be with someone like that. I need for both our sakes to be told get up and make your own dinner or get the drink out of the fridge. I've a strong personality and I'd need to meet a strong personality because otherwise I'd run amuck

Oh I get why the Doormat is not attractive and even bloody irritating, but by the same token some men and women like that "type" and wouldn't be into your "type" at all. And that's fine. People are different, who knew.

But that's a good example of why these PUA eejits are on the wrong tack. Imagine their snake oil actually worked. That they could turn a guy who was naturally more quiet into a strong personality. He'd then get a woman that suited this new personality, but it wouldn't be his and it wouldn't last long.

21Savage · 10-01-2018 3:32pm

Wibbs wrote: »

A certain kind of "tail". If dippy women with an air gap in lieu of a brain is a guy's thing, but...

All women have the same wants, wishes and desires.

Remember women find the majority of men unattractive. 20 per cent of guys on Match.com are getting 80 per cent of the women.

The cute innocent bookworm wants the ripped male model faced 6 footer as much as the 'dippy women'.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 10-01-2018 3:35pm

21Savage wrote: »

All women have the same wants, wishes and desires.

Remember women find the majority of men unattractive. 20 per cent of guys on Match.com are getting 80 per cent of the women.

No they absolutely do not. Do not speak for me I can speak for myself

Doctor Jimbob · 10-01-2018 3:35pm

21Savage wrote: »

All women have the same wants, wishes and desires.

Remember women find the majority of men unattractive. 20 per cent of guys on Match.com are getting 80 per cent of the women.

Jesus Christ.

21Savage · 10-01-2018 3:42pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Jesus Christ.

I published the findings a few pages back. The figure is more stark on Tinder. I think it's 90/10.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 10-01-2018 3:44pm

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

Do you own an Alfa Romeo?

I actually did own an Alfa 156 for awhile, and my blood group is A-pos ~ I told you I ticked all the boxes

Billy86 · 10-01-2018 3:46pm

21Savage,youve been given extensive advise in the last few days and even 24 hours, try taking some of it on.

Where you are right now is exactly fly where you will be in 20 years time (actually probably worse) if you do not improve that.

And ask any woman, a good 80% of messages on pof, match.com, tinder etc they receive are (and I quote) "hi".

Triceratops Ballet · 10-01-2018 3:48pm

Iconomi50 wrote: »

Do you dispute that a man can get better at seducing woman, ie, greater frequency of success and greater quality of woman seduced?

SHOCKER the more you talk to people the better you are at talking to people!!

(I know I shouldn't engage with this tosh, but I'm an imperfect human)

21Savage · 10-01-2018 3:50pm

Billy86 wrote: »

21Savage,youve been given extensive advise in the last few days and even 24 hours, try taking some of it on.

Where you are right now is exactly fly where you will be in 20 years time (actually probably worse) if you do not improve that.

And ask any woman, a good 80% of messages on pof, match.com, tinder etc they received (and I quote) "hi".

I read your post a few pages back. There will always be outliers and I'm delighted for you that you're one of them.

Oh, and who do you think they reply to with those 'hi' messages? The alpha hunk. He can send a dick pick and they'll reply. Look up Tinder experiments bro. Harrowing.

Doctor Jimbob · 10-01-2018 3:53pm

21Savage wrote: »

I published the findings a few pages back. The figure is more stark on Tinder. I think it's 90/10.

It wouldn't matter if it was 99/1, there are two huge flaws with the conclusion you're drawing from that data. Firstly, you're applying data from dating sites to the whole of the population (somewhat reasonable in a way, but coming to a conclusion as major as "all women are the same" from it is ludicrous). Secondly, you're not even trying to take into account what the reasons might be, you're just deciding it's because of a given reason due to your bias.

Billy86 · 10-01-2018 4:02pm

21Savage wrote: »

I read your post a few pages back. There will always be outliers and I'm delighted for you that you're one of them.

Oh, and who do you think they reply to with those 'hi' messages? The alpha hunk. He can send a dick pick and they'll reply. Look up Tinder experiments bro. Harrowing.

My post wasn't about outliers though, hence the other examples including the German girls I knew in Australia. You should try to have a genuine talk with some women and take what they're telling you on board because for many mental stimulation is more important than anything else. Possibly the main point of my post was that women are not a hive mind (or 2-3 hive minds based around 'bimbo' or 'high class broad' stereotypes and caricatures).

You'll also find that 'hi' messages from 1994 Brad Pitt lookalikes even rarely get responses, based on the women I know at least.

21Savage · 10-01-2018 4:05pm

Billy86 wrote: »

My post wasn't about outliers though, hence the other examples including the German girls I knew in Australia. You should try to have a genuine talk with some women and take what they're telling you on board because for many mental stimulation is more important than anything else. Possibly the main point of my post was that women are not a hive mind (or 2-3 hive minds based around 'bimbo' or 'high class broad' stereotypes and caricatures).

These German girls were hardly going to tell you they were getting ****ed by these Aussie guys.:D They probably wanted to keep it on the DL. What women say and what women do are dramatically different.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 10-01-2018 4:06pm

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

SHOCKER the more you talk to people the better you are at talking to people!!

(I know I shouldn't engage with this tosh, but I'm an imperfect human)

And like, if someone was commenting on my lips, "taking the lead" by moving to another location, using artificial body language and all this stuff that's soooo amazing I can pretty much guarantee that wouldn't work on me . If that same guy talked to enough women though, he'd find someone where either it works or she overlooks it because it's last call :pac:

Most likely none of these techniques will help you get a specific woman, but if you see us as interchangeable units grouped into categories like dimepieces and club sluts and classy broads then yes eventually it'll work on someone or at least not hinder you. But that's because of that individual woman, not The Technique.

Billy86 · 10-01-2018 4:11pm

21Savage wrote: »

These German girls were hardly going to tell you they were getting ****ed by these Aussie guys.:D They probably wanted to keep it on the DL. What women say and what women do are dramatically different.

Eh, no, they were riding Aussie lads - that's exactly what I said. Maybe you should read back over my post and others, and try to take some of that stuff on board.

Triceratops Ballet · 10-01-2018 4:13pm

Stella Stocky Watt wrote: »

And like, if someone was commenting on my lips, "taking the lead" by moving to another location, using artificial body language and all this stuff that's soooo amazing I can pretty much guarantee that wouldn't work on me . If that same guy talked to enough women though, he'd find someone where either it works or she overlooks it because it's last call :pac:

Most likely none of these techniques will help you get a specific woman, but if you see us as interchangeable units grouped into categories like dimepieces and club sluts and classy broads then yes eventually it'll work on someone or at least not hinder you. But that's because of that individual woman, not The Technique.

the one that gets me is the not asking questions and talking in statements BS, like a dude walks up to you and just says sh1t AT you and that's effective? If you just wanna stand here and say random sh1t out loud I'll be off and leave you to it!

When I first heard that I could actually think of times guys tried it at me (well I dunno if that's what they were aiming for tbf) and i just remember thinking WTF is happening here, dude loves the sound of his own voice!

Odds are if you approach 100 women with that technique it probably will work on a few. But if all women wanted the same thing wouldn't it work on all of them?

Wibbs · 10-01-2018 4:20pm

21Savage wrote: »

All women have the same wants, wishes and desires.

They really don't. Not beyond the basic human stuff.

Remember women find the majority of men unattractive.

Well TBH speaking as a man I'd say I'd have found a majority of women "unattractive" for me. Certainly for a relationship that has any likelihood of working. Even for a one night fling, or a short flingette I'd not be particularly interested in a good percentage of women out there. This is nothing to do with them, or how objectively attractive they might be, it's just my preferences. I'd bet a fair chunk of men would say similar. Except when on the tenth pint of whatever you're having yourself and the lights are about to go up. And you're 22.

Stella Stocky Watt wrote: »

Most likely none of these techniques will help you get a specific woman, but if you see us as interchangeable units grouped into categories like dimepieces and club sluts and classy broads then yes eventually it'll work on someone or at least not hinder you. But that's because of that individual woman, not The Technique.

Nail on the head. Some women like nerdy guys, some women like heavily muscled guys(outside of Venice Beach Cal, more go for the former), some like serious guys, some like humorous guys, some like brunette, some like blond, some like long hair, some like bald, and so forth. Mostly people like people somewhat similar to themselves in looks and outlook, with a bit of a difference for spice.

Oh and if tinder doesn't work for someone, don't use it. Simples. Why depress yourself and get into a particular worldview. And whatever worldview you have you will always find "evidence" that it's correct. You'll filter for it. People have a tendency to be proven right than be happy to be proven wrong.

LadyMacBeth_ · 10-01-2018 4:20pm

I read this thread today. What the fcuk did I just read?

Wibbs · 10-01-2018 4:22pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

somewhat reasonable in a way, but coming to a conclusion as major as "all women are the same" from it is ludicrous

Within the community they even have an acronym for this(of course they do). AWALT call women are like that. Or something along those lines.

cantdecide · 10-01-2018 4:35pm

This thread reminds me of the line from Taxi Driver - "I don't believe that one should devote his life to morbid self-attention. I believe that someone should become a person like other people".

In other words, handle your sh1t. Put your best foot forward and be the best you that you can be. Stop examining what advantages that others do or don't have, you can't work on others but you can work on yourself. Remember that getting attention of your preferred gender is not a human right. Some people won't ever experience intimacy with someone else. It's just a fact. A fact that sucks but a fact none the less. However, one dimension of life shouldn't define anyone.

Triceratops Ballet · 10-01-2018 4:39pm

Iconomi51 wrote: »

It is simpy wrong to think you can't significantly improve.

As a result of applying certain principles and techniques I successfully "chat up" women more often and the women I approach and seduce are more attractive. There is a very clear upward trend. To think it's simply a "numbers game" is incorrect. As you practice with the right mindset you improve. You become more and more confident and better at reading social sutiations and subtle signals. It's an incredible journey to embark on and I'd recommend all men do it, you are building skills that last you a lifetime.

When I approach my mindset is, what can I share, whereas most men think "what can I get", which is a toxic abd repelling attitude to have.

The greater number of hours you invest in improving at something (anything) the greater number of positive results you will have - that's what a numbers game is

The Alpha Male - does he really exist?

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