The Alpha Male - does he really exist?

21Savage

Wibbs wrote: »

They really don't. Not beyond the basic human stuff.

Well TBH speaking as a man I'd say I'd have found a majority of women "unattractive" for me. Certainly for a relationship that has any likelihood of working. Even for a one night fling, or a short flingette I'd not be particularly interested in a good percentage of women out there. This is nothing to do with them, or how objectively attractive they might be, it's just my preferences. I'd bet a fair chunk of men would say similar. Except when on the tenth pint of whatever you're having yourself and the lights are about to go up. And you're 22. .

How this ties into Alpha Male is that the AF will normally be the guy girls love.

Startling data. Keep in mind most people cherry pick photos so are probably deemed even less attractive irl

Triceratops Ballet

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

The greater number of hours you invest in improving at something (anything) the greater number of positive results you will have - that's what a numbers game is

There used to be this commonly accepted belief that it took 10,000 hours to master a skill. Within the last few years, that's been dropped to many different amounts, although the Accelerated learning "guru's" tend to suggest 20 hours. Not for complete mastery, but for useful competence.

I can't fully agree with the idea of the numbers game when it comes to dating. It relies far too much on luck and the belief that people will automatically improve just because they spend time on something. If you perform the same action a million times, you're going to get a variety of outcomes, but how much will you actually learn/improve? It really comes down to the individual themselves.

I've known guys who will go into a bar/club, approach every girl in the place in exactly the same way, and usually go home with someone (because they're not picky as to who..). It's a numbers game. It relies on luck. That there is someone who just happens to respond to what you're offering.

The idea behind learning different techniques for communicating with women is that you can improve the chances involved. Luck remains an element, but you can improve the possibilities.

If you ever do training for sales positions, you'll be taught about controlling tonality (your voice), and pacing (speed) because having greater control over your tonality/pacing allows you to influence a conversation. It's like when you're describing an exciting story/event, your voice picks up speed, you might add an element of breathlessness to your voice, and your listeners will gain rapport in a better manner.

The thing is that there are many little techniques out there which can improve your interactions with others. And by observing these techniques during conversations, they provide measurable milestones or references for you to improve on, rather simply viewing the end result as a failure/success.

ShadyAcres

The alpha male exists but its rare. I came across one on week long training course about 2 years ago. Big,loud, came across as a bit of a dick. He was supposedly our equal but he took control of everything. To be fair he knew his stuff.
Everybody takes different leadership roles at different times. With friends its mostly 'Lessez faire' very relaxed leadership style meaning that everyone is equal.
Sometimes a democratic leadership style is needed between friends. Lets say you are all going to do something adventurous like cliff jumping but none of you have ever done cliff jumping. You are all standing at the top of the cliff but there's certain rocks you need to avoid in the water. So you discuss which is the best way to jump and avoid those rocks. You might all agree that you will avoid jumping to the left. You might all agree to jump as far right as you can. Thats a democratic leadership style.

Sometimes someone takes an autocratic leadership style. Lets say a group of 4 friends want to go mountain biking. One guy has loads of experience biking and knows the area inside out. The other 3 friends haven't been on a bike since school and are essentially complete beginners.
The guy who has the experience has to teach the others the very basics like gearing and braking and body positioning and how to ride singletrack in the correct way without hitting a tree on the first run. That's autocratic.
Edit: Autocratic is a bit too strong a word

professore

Kinda puts paid to the myth that guys are only interested in looks and women in "personality". All my life it's seemed the other way round to me unless by "personality" and "confidence" they mean "insufferable dick". I bet Donald Trump drowned in pussy.

21Savage

professore wrote: »

Kinda puts paid to the myth that guys are only interested in looks and women in "personality". All my life it's seemed the other way round to me unless by "personality" and "confidence" they mean "insufferable dick". I bet Donald Trump drowned in pussy.

Women have two levels. They completely disregard looks and offer up theirs for money in the case of Melania or looks are everything to them. The power a handsome and high social status man has over women is incredible.

Guys are more forgiving to women. They are probably meaner but when push comes to shove(looking for a girl) they will be more forgiving and more open in terms of preferences.

Triceratops Ballet

21Savage wrote: »

Women have two levels. They completely disregard looks and offer up theirs for money in the case of Melania or looks are everything to them. The power a handsome and high social status man has over women is incredible. A handsome guy can make a women do anything.

turn off your computer and go out and talk to a woman, any woman, maybe your mother/sister/aunt, just find out from interacting with an actual woman what women are like.

Pat Mustard

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

turn off your computer and go out and talk to a woman, any woman, maybe your mother/sister/aunt, just find out from interacting with an actual woman what women are like.

Madness.

What is required are hours of youtube videos and lists of the most theoretically useful PUA techniques.

21Savage

I don't prescribe to PUA. It's a waste of time. Women either like you or don't; view you as alpha or don't.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

A handsome guy can make a women do anything

I know you've edited the post now but that was an hilariously apt typo.

This attitude of "what women say and what they do are different, therefore they're liars and I'm right"...I'm very honestly not sure if you understand that women on this thread expressing opinions and preferences, while young wans you see in Coppers behave in a way that suggests different opinions and preferences, does not mean "what women say they want isn't what they want". They're a whole other women.

jigglypuffstuff

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Exactly it's a social crutch! just to be clear, we're talking about interacting with unknown women so as to either have sex or form a relationship with them, the vast majority of young men wouldn't have the confidence to chat women up in a bar /nightclub without drink. Also flirting with a women that you already know from college or work is an entirely different matter, most guys can do that without the drink



Yes you can improve confidence this is how it's done
If your in your late teens or early twenties and never even kissed a girl what you need to do is go out and actually kiss a girl.
The best way to do this is really obvious, here it is.
At the weekend meet your friends for a few drinks around 8pm or 9pm, as the night rolls on you should move to more lively bars/clubs
these bars/clubs will be full of women who are also out having a few drinks if you get talking to one of these women there is every chance she will allow you to stick your tongue in her mouth. You may have to go out 2/3 nights a week for a whole year or even two years for this to happen but if you can get this far in late teens early twenties it's highly lightly you will go on to settle down and have a family in later life.
It's that simple and I can assure this is very best approach.




you get confident by real life experience if a guy gets to kiss a girl every now and again he is eventually going to have sex with one this will greatly increase his confidence
You have no reasons or plan just some fanciful notions of about something magically happening in a coffee shop

This is completely juvenile and utterly childish.

When international women come here and wonder what is wrong with the men here that they don't have a clue about women and dating...they need only look at this post to get an insight into why some men here are almost socially disabled regards proper etiquette relative to showing interest and pursuing further.

Alas the women are as much to blame, as they majority of then actively facilitate ( and often encourage) this type of childish teenage disco behaviour

The need for a social crutch is beyond worrying and harbouring a fear of rejection and a bruised ego even moreso.

Perhaps expand your mind .... approach people who won't look at you strange if you walk up to them, engage conversation...invite for a coffee and number swap...in a daytime environment. Coffee shop, library, restaurant, supermarket.

Here's the clue....they'll most likely be international.... because unlike the majority of young people here....they won't be stuck in the pathetic cultural paradigm that is meet someone out drinking, bring them home to swap many bodily fluids and maybe maybe...ask their name in the morning that is embedded throughout this society

Apart from that the only advice I can offer you is look harder.... because you're very clearly exhibiting tunnel vision here....

And if that's your "best approach" you're in for a rude awakening.. because it sounds like a shy 15 year olds one to me

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Okay fine that just lives on your clipboard permanently I guess but could you PLEASE fix that "fillet words" bit. It's annoying me every time I see it.

B0jangles

Stella Stocky Watt wrote: »

Okay fine that just lives on your clipboard permanently I guess but could you PLEASE fix that "fillet words" bit. It's annoying me every time I see it.

Shhh, that's part of the technique - you (a FEMALE or WO-MAN) have just been tricked into a direct interaction with him, driven by your innate biological urge to correct grammatical errors and spelling mistakes.

Everyone knows females can't stand spelling errors - their beady little eyes evolved to spot berries in the undergrowth so obviously they are specially suited to spotting small typos and suchlike.

Lorelli!

Cup of Lyons Tea wrote: »

Smile when you approach, but not like a clown.

Sorry this one really made me laugh when I read it :pac:

Pat Mustard

Stella Stocky Watt wrote: »

Okay fine that just lives on your clipboard permanently I guess but could you PLEASE fix that "fillet words" bit. It's annoying me every time I see it.

That's what happens when you have about 4 minutes until your account gets erased. You have to copy and paste from a hastily prepared word document. Before they git ya.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Pat Mustard wrote: »

That's what happens when you have about 4 minutes until your account gets erased. You have to copy and paste from a hastily prepared word document. Before they git ya.

I know but in the interim!

Pat Mustard

And he's off.

Nobody watches those videos. For Christ

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

B0jangles wrote: »

Shhh, that's part of the technique - you (a FEMALE or WO-MAN) have just been tricked into a direct interaction with him, driven by your innate biological urge to correct grammatical errors and spelling mistakes.

Everyone knows females can't stand spelling errors - their beady little eyes evolved to spot berries in the undergrowth so obviously they are specially suited to spotting small typos and suchlike.

I'll be OK, I have a really top notch bitch shield. I'm lobbying to be allowed call it a c*nt shield

professore

pone2012 wrote: »

This is completely juvenile and utterly childish.

When international women come here and wonder what is wrong with the men here that they don't have a clue about women and dating...they need only look at this post to get an insight into why some men here are almost socially disabled regards proper etiquette relative to showing interest and pursuing further.

Alas the women are as much to blame, as they majority of then actively facilitate ( and often encourage) this type of childish teenage disco behaviour

The need for a social crutch is beyond worrying and harbouring a fear of rejection and a bruised ego even moreso.

Perhaps expand your mind .... approach people who won't look at you strange if you walk up to them, engage conversation...invite for a coffee and number swap...in a daytime environment. Coffee shop, library, restaurant, supermarket.

Here's the clue....they'll most likely be international.... because unlike the majority of young people here....they won't be stuck in the pathetic cultural paradigm that is meet someone out drinking, bring them home to swap many bodily fluids and maybe maybe...ask their name in the morning that is embedded throughout this society

Apart from that the only advice I can offer you is look harder.... because you're very clearly exhibiting tunnel vision here....

And if that's your "best approach" you're in for a rude awakening.. because it sounds like a shy 15 year olds one to me

I always seemed to have much more success with "international" girls than native Irish girls ... found them much more straightforward. Was always games with most Irish women - never knew where you stood with them. I would lose interest and go off after another one only to find the same gameplaying. Maybe I lost out on some "great" women but I doubt it somehow. Maybe because I hate bull**** - you either like me or you don't. This is back in the stone ages of the 80s and early 90s so things might have changed drastically since.

Wibbs

Pat Mustard wrote: »

And he's off.

Nobody watches those videos. For Christ

The crowd he references are a very good example, if not the best/worst, for operating like. A very targeted marketing machine to a certain demographic of young and adrift men. They're near cult like. They use the bait and switch of releasing "free" material on the Youtubes, but make their money on seminars, boot camps and coaching. The free stuff is the advertising(though of course they get pretty high Tube hits so make a few quid there). I mean if their free stuff was golden and worked and all you needed was three videos or whatever, why keep churning them out, why keep watching them. Kinda like those blokes who read up and watch bodybuilding stuff while sitting on a couch mashing Tayto bags into their mouth hole.

professore wrote: »

I always seemed to have much more success with "international" girls than native Irish girls ... found them much more straightforward. Was always games with most Irish women - never knew where you stood with them.

Ditto and came to the same conclusions. However that was at the start. Over the years and looking more closely there were actually few differences, beyond some surface cultural stuff and even there the individual was much more in play. If anything I found Irish women less harsh compared to some and you can be treated really badly or well by an Irish, or French, or German, or Czech, or Italian woman.

One difference is most European countries don't have nearly as big a drink until you drop down culture(though the Swedes can be manic for this). And what comes with that is drunken passes and misunderstandings and many women naturally being on their guard. You try the average Irish guys pissed up mating approach in say Paris and... well, good luck with that.

What I realised was what really changed(for the most part) was me and my approach. I was acting differently and expecting different outcomes than I was with Irish women. I was more out going, I was more open, I was kinda in tourist, wow this is all new mode(which can come across as enthusiastic and easy going). And different outcomes came along. Now there is the "exotic" factor at play too of course and going both ways. A hint of exotic works pretty much everywhere. Makes good biological sense too, more chance of different genes coming into the mix.

LuckyLloyd

So I actually watched a little bit of one of those game videos posted earlier. The guy in it (I assume the ‘Pick up Artist’) goes through analysis of him chatting up a girl. But the striking fact is that the guy is well dressed, in shape and extremely intelligent and chatty.

The obvious take away is not ‘do technique X and Y and Z to manipulate a girl into bed with you’. Rather be sound and put your best foot forward. As Wibbs says, there is clearly small parts of this stuff that is worth following. It’s just not the twisted misogynistic and hateful ‘women are a computer who all think the same’ drool.

Noel82

Poor Jeb!

lonewolf1961

of course he does .

lonewolf1961

Roy Chubby Brown is a alpha male .

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

I hate to break it to you and a few folks on Boards, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJRF8xGzvj4

Most of us know very well that it isn't... and are grateful that it's not. However, if it could be a wee bit more Northern Spanish...

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Or you could take a step back and say the real take away is to get yourself sorted and make sure you’re engaged and productive so you can be in a social situation from a position of confidence.

Yup.. and I'd agree with you. TBH nowadays, I'm not sure what the excuse about dating is. The Internet provides so much information, advice, and avenues to improve your dating that I could almost foam at the mouth in Jealousy, compared with what it was like 20-25 years ago. VHS/DVD? Yay! Sure, the Internet existed but it wasn't terribly common in my neck of the woods until later. IIRC and Newsgroups were the "new" thing for most of these dating gurus.

However, I would point out something. It's always easier to show what should be done when you're on the outside looking in. When you're experiencing the problems, feeling the shame/nervousness/angst etc, it's very easy to blindsight yourself to what would ultimately help you. It's also very easy to think, this is all there is and there is no help to be had externally... enough experiences of failure and you can believe that's all there's left on the cards.

I've known so many guys for whom dating & relationships (of all kinds) came naturally to them. They weren't always successful or weren't getting the 9s/10s, but dating was fine. It didn't for me. I learned to connect with people. I learned to be interested in other peoples ****.I could give you a long list of things I had to learn before I became comfortable with other people, and have the confidence to be myself (In confidence, not in rebellion).

qwerty ui op

pone2012 wrote: »

This is completely juvenile and utterly childish.

Why? all you've done is point the finger and say juvenile and childish without explaining why.
What I've described above is the most common approach not just in Ireland but many places all over the world. You may be unhappy with this and call it a lot of things but seeing as it's done by vast amounts of adult human beings it's not juvenile/childish.

pone2012 wrote: »

When international women come here and wonder what is wrong with the men here that they don't have a clue about women and dating...they need only look at this post to get an insight into why some men here are almost socially disabled regards proper etiquette relative to showing interest and pursuing further.

I've met and worked with 100's of international women, In my early twenties I was in a 2 year relationship with a girl from Denmark and I'm currently married to a woman from northern Spain we've been together over 9 years. All this time, even now when my wife's family/friends are around one thing I've never heard about is this so called problem with Irish men and dating.

pone2012 wrote: »

Alas the women are as much to blame, as they majority of then actively facilitate ( and often encourage) this type of childish teenage disco behaviour

There is no problem and no blame to go around. Again if a lot of adults do it, it's not childish, how about you call it what it is young adult behavior .

pone2012 wrote: »

The need for a social crutch is beyond worrying and harbouring a fear of rejection and a bruised ego even moreso.

You've people on here who've wandered so far off the reservation they seem to be talking in some strange language and all I'm advocating is a simple-

Go for a night out with your friends
yet, I'm " beyond worrying"Is this because I've used the word "pints" ?
Is this a self loathing Irish thing?do you think we should just automatically change and copy some other country?

pone2012 wrote: »

Perhaps expand your mind .... approach people who won't look at you strange if you walk up to them, engage conversation...invite for a coffee and number swap...in a daytime environment. Coffee shop, library, restaurant, supermarket.

I'm more of a tea drinker and I work during the day

and

No. I will not change. I very happy with who I am.
I reckon, you want me to change so you can live in what think is a trendy/cooler country. Not going to happen.

pone2012 wrote: »

Here's the clue....they'll most likely be international.... because unlike the majority of young people here....they won't be stuck in the pathetic cultural paradigm that is meet someone out drinking, bring them home to swap many bodily fluids and maybe maybe...ask their name in the morning that is embedded throughout this society

Apart from that the only advice I can offer you is look harder.... because you're very clearly exhibiting tunnel vision here....

And if that's your "best approach" you're in for a rude awakening.. because it sounds like a shy 15 year olds one to me

Here's a clue... going out on the pull, is one of the best things you'll ever get to do life and you should not judge people after reading a single post.

21Savage

Hahahah going out on the pull is one of the best things you can do in life is that his highness Ross himself?

qwerty ui op

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Here's a clue... going out on the pull, is one of the best things you'll ever get to do life and you should not judge people after reading a single post.

Only thing I've really agreed with so far.

Folks, you gotta realize that many people are not set up to have long-term relationships, whether that's a girlfriend or marriage. There might be something missing in their/my personality, I really don't know.

I'm just over 40 and a bachelor. I've never been interested in marriage, and TBH long-term relationships bore me to tears (I have had a few, and was engaged once). I've met many wonderful women, and I've had opportunities to become serious, but it wouldn't have been fair to them to go the whole way. I'm not ready for that, and likely never will.

So, what are we confirmed bachelors or single people to do? Just give up? Nah. Bugger that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going out, meeting someone new, and having sexual relations with them. And that's it. As long as it's an honest experience, I see nothing negative involved. It might not be your sort of thing, but it is for many others... And it's definitely not a sign of immaturity.

Most of my friends are female. I have them for friendships. I have others for sexual relationships. "Friends with benefits" for the most part, although a few are purely sexual with little friendship involved... And I am perfectly content with that...

And honestly, going out on the pull is fun.

21Savage

Deleted User wrote: »

Only thing I've really agreed with so far.

Folks, you gotta realize that many people are not set up to have long-term relationships, whether that's a girlfriend or marriage. There might be something missing in their/my personality, I really don't know.

I'm just over 40 and a bachelor. I've never been interested in marriage, and TBH long-term relationships bore me to tears (I have had a few, and was engaged once). I've met many wonderful women, and I've had opportunities to become serious, but it wouldn't have been fair to them to go the whole way. I'm not ready for that, and likely never will.

So, what are we confirmed bachelors or single people to do? Just give up? Nah. Bugger that. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going out, meeting someone new, and having sexual relations with them. And that's it. As long as it's an honest experience, I see nothing negative involved. It might not be your sort of thing, but it is for many others... And it's definitely not a sign of immaturity.

Most of my friends are female. I have them for friendships. I have others for sexual relationships. "Friends with benefits" for the most part, although a few are purely sexual with little friendship involved... And I am perfectly content with that...

And honestly, going out on the pull is fun.

I wish I could pull of being a 40 yo bachelor. My mums uncle was exact same as me. He was known around the town for his dashing looks(srs, actually had people come up to me and say we were alike but he was way more handsome) He actually died alone. Never had a relationship in his life. Rumour had it he was gay. He was a beautiful person but very self-obsessed.

dd972

21Savage wrote: »

. Rumour had it he was gay. .

In other words he didn't fall around pissed all the time, get into fights and read broadsheet newspapers. :pac: