JFK Files

bunderoon · 30-10-2017 08:08PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Ordered by Kennedy himself.

Ah sound. Any proof or link for that?

Tipsy McSwagger · 30-10-2017 08:09PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Even KRLD TV says it was impossible for an assassin to be let through unnoticed. The entrance was blocked by a big armored trunk and guards are outside watching and stopping cars. So not sure why people claim Ruby walked down the police underground entrance unnoticed?

Because Ruby snuck in the other entrance on Main St. and not the Commerce St entrance which was blocked by the truck. He spotted Lt Pierce driving out, the officer who was guarding the entrance moved to the side and Ruby snuck in. Less than 60 seconds later he shot LHO. Ruby told the detectives who were interviewing him 30 minutes after shooting LHO this was how he snuck in.

Tipsy McSwagger · 30-10-2017 08:17PM

bunderoon wrote: »

Ah sound. Any proof or link for that?

JFK had ordered the agents off the limo while in Florida too. He said tell the Ivy League Charlatans to drop back. It was a political thing, he wanted the crowds to be able to see him.

Cheerful Spring · 30-10-2017 08:32PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Because Ruby snuck in the other entrance on Main St. and not the Commerce St entrance which was blocked by the truck. He spotted Lt Pierce driving out, the officer who was guarding the entrance moved to the side and Ruby snuck in. Less than 60 seconds later he shot LHO. Ruby told the detectives who were interviewing him 30 minutes after shooting LHO this was how he snuck in.

I know this, but some theorists claim online Ruby gained entry where the armored was. I disagree. Ruby was standing the opposite side of where the trunk had backed down into, so obvious he got in from the other side.

He sneaked in or let in is the question? Ruby said he sneaked in probably is true. This still does not sideline him claiming people in higher positions of power placed him in this position? Who is he referring to? Assassin killing Assassin just feels off to me in some many ways. CIA in those days hired the mob to carry out hits on people they needed rid off.

Whiplash85 · 30-10-2017 10:09PM

Botched protection of president
Botched shooting
Botched collection and protection of evidence and collection of witness statements
Botched Autopsy
Botched protection of chief suspect
Botched investigation.

Thats a whole pile of botches faciliated by the dictat that "the public must be convinced that Oswald acted alone".
Then you have to assume that Oswald could hit the president twice in 6.3 seconds against all odds.
Then you have to assume that Ruby was a patriot and not just the owner of a strip club.

The Warren commission and mainstream media have convinced people for years that this was the act of a 24 year old lone wolf.
That people who dont buy this story are the loony ones. That stuff like magic bullets and mislaying a presidents brain can be regular day occurences. They have convinced people that water does in fact flow uphill in the context of this case. From the moment a photofit of Oswald was furhished they have always tried to make Oswald fit the narrative, trying to lump hammer square pegs into round holes and discounting many witness testimony in the process that did not fit the official line. Thank the lord for Mark Lane. In my opinion this man is the definition of a true american hero and did so much to re calibrate Americans minds with his documentaries and books and presenting a counter view.

The Nal · 31-10-2017 10:19AM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I posted the video ages ago you not watch it. It was a confession after he killed Oswald.

The reporters asked him was he alone in doing this act and he clearly states others are involved.

Argh Jesus. Not that clip. Chopped and out of context. A clip from 1966! The "others" involved are his lawyers and such, putting him in the position hes in. He was complaining about the legal treatment he received. This was after he was granted a retrial. He always said he wasn't a part of a conspiracy. His statement never changed. Even on his deathbed.

How can you base opinions like yours off a 30 seconds youtube clip thats been edited?!

You really don't know much about this. And don't seem to want to learn.

ohnonotgmail · 31-10-2017 10:45AM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Botched protection of president
Botched shooting
Botched collection and protection of evidence and collection of witness statements
Botched Autopsy
Botched protection of chief suspect
Botched investigation.

Thats a whole pile of botches faciliated by the dictat that "the public must be convinced that Oswald acted alone".
Then you have to assume that Oswald could hit the president twice in 6.3 seconds against all odds.
Then you have to assume that Ruby was a patriot and not just the owner of a strip club.

The Warren commission and mainstream media have convinced people for years that this was the act of a 24 year old lone wolf.
That people who dont buy this story are the loony ones. That stuff like magic bullets and mislaying a presidents brain can be regular day occurences. They have convinced people that water does in fact flow uphill in the context of this case. From the moment a photofit of Oswald was furhished they have always tried to make Oswald fit the narrative, trying to lump hammer square pegs into round holes and discounting many witness testimony in the process that did not fit the official line. Thank the lord for Mark Lane. In my opinion this man is the definition of a true american hero and did so much to re calibrate Americans minds with his documentaries and books and presenting a counter view.

you seem to be massive overestimating the difficulty of the shots that were taken.

The Nal · 31-10-2017 11:43AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you seem to be massive overestimating the difficulty of the shots that were taken.

Indeed. The clock starts with the first shot.

1st - 0 seconds
2nd - 4.5ish seconds
3rd - 9-10ish seconds

The Nal · 01-11-2017 03:27PM

Rest of the files to be released in the next few weeks. Not next year as previously reported.

Anyone looking to dig deeper, a few good documentaries here.

Oswalds Ghost - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY93Y2ryqcc
JFK The Lost Bullet - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyECKcK0uCw
Rush to Judgment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w4sQtwWfBo
Lee Harvey Oswald: An American Tragedy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Gf8fKdhQ0

Whiplash85 · 01-11-2017 05:55PM

The Nal wrote: »

Rest of the files to be released in the next few weeks. Not next year as previously reported.

Anyone looking to dig deeper, a few good documentaries here.

Oswalds Ghost - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY93Y2ryqcc
JFK The Lost Bullet - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyECKcK0uCw
Rush to Judgment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w4sQtwWfBo
Lee Harvey Oswald: An American Tragedy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Gf8fKdhQ0

What is especially interesting is the interviews on youtube of doctors Crenshaw and McLelland who were in parkland hospital who were some of the first people to see his wounds. Also features Dr Perry. It was clear these doctors were terrified and were subverted. Particularly by Dr Charles Baxter who threatened that any doctor that didnt tow the party line or "tried to make a quick buck" out of selling their story, he would see to it that they would never work in the medical profession again. They had seen hundreds of gun shot wounds and were not privy to the details of what went on in Dealey plaza but were convinced the head shot was an entry wound above right temple. These assertions were copperfastened in their minds when they saw the Zapruder film in mid 70's.

Indeed McLelland in what is a real eye opening 3 part doc on youtube states that Pathologist Rose tried to conduct an Autopsy as is required under Texas law but was prevented by secret service agents with Thompson sub machine guns who took the body but not before acosting Rose.

The Nal · 02-11-2017 01:07PM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

What is especially interesting is the interviews on youtube of doctors Crenshaw and McLelland who were in parkland hospital who were some of the first people to see his wounds. Also features Dr Perry. It was clear these doctors were terrified and were subverted. Particularly by Dr Charles Baxter who threatened that any doctor that didnt tow the party line or "tried to make a quick buck" out of selling their story, he would see to it that they would never work in the medical profession again. They had seen hundreds of gun shot wounds and were not privy to the details of what went on in Dealey plaza but were convinced the head shot was an entry wound above right temple. These assertions were copperfastened in their minds when they saw the Zapruder film in mid 70's.

Indeed McLelland in what is a real eye opening 3 part doc on youtube states that Pathologist Rose tried to conduct an Autopsy as is required under Texas law but was prevented by secret service agents with Thompson sub machine guns who took the body but not before acosting Rose.

Yeah Secret Service wanted to get LBJ back to Washington but he wouldn't leave without Jackie who in turn wasn't leaving without JFKs body.

They were working off the assumption initially anyway, that 1 bullet hit JFK.

Dohnjoe · 02-11-2017 01:41PM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Botched protection of president
Botched shooting
Botched collection and protection of evidence and collection of witness statements
Botched Autopsy
Botched protection of chief suspect
Botched investigation.

Thats a whole pile of botches faciliated by the dictat that "the public must be convinced that Oswald acted alone".
Then you have to assume that Oswald could hit the president twice in 6.3 seconds against all odds.
Then you have to assume that Ruby was a patriot and not just the owner of a strip club.

The Warren commission and mainstream media have convinced people for years that this was the act of a 24 year old lone wolf.
That people who dont buy this story are the loony ones. That stuff like magic bullets and mislaying a presidents brain can be regular day occurences. They have convinced people that water does in fact flow uphill in the context of this case. From the moment a photofit of Oswald was furhished they have always tried to make Oswald fit the narrative, trying to lump hammer square pegs into round holes and discounting many witness testimony in the process that did not fit the official line. Thank the lord for Mark Lane. In my opinion this man is the definition of a true american hero and did so much to re calibrate Americans minds with his documentaries and books and presenting a counter view.

So who really did it then? names

If solid details can't be provided after 50 years then it's coming across as individuals interested only in perpetuating doubt rather than getting to the bottom of it

The Nal · 02-11-2017 01:57PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

So who really did it then? names

If solid details can't be provided after 50 years then it's coming across as individuals interested only in perpetuating doubt rather than getting to the bottom of it

The issue with conspiracy theories is that there isn't a single piece of specific evidence to support any of them. Never mind something approaching proof. Forget about names.

Huexotzingo · 02-11-2017 02:01PM

Cheerful Spring · 02-11-2017 02:55PM

E. Howard Hunt on video told us who did it and why. And if you watched last week the CIA kept back all JFK files about E Howard Hunt. Hunt is an known CIA operative and was the ringleader who organised the breakin at the Watergate office complex. This scandal brought down the Nixon Presidency. From this act alone we know he was a serious player in the 60's and 70's.

And let us not forget this photograph taken the day Kennedy was shot in Dallas. Three men arrested near the railway area and one of the men looks like Hunt, or least had a similar facial appearance. The 3 men look well dressed and groomed to be tramps , but the Dallas Police released them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_tramps#/media/File:E._Howard_Hunt_%26_One_of_the_Three_Tramps_Arrested_after_JFK_Assassination.jpg

Cheerful Spring · 02-11-2017 02:59PM

The Nal wrote: »

Rest of the files to be released in the next few weeks. Not next year as previously reported.

Anyone looking to dig deeper, a few good documentaries here.

Oswalds Ghost - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY93Y2ryqcc
JFK The Lost Bullet - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyECKcK0uCw
Rush to Judgment - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w4sQtwWfBo
Lee Harvey Oswald: An American Tragedy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Gf8fKdhQ0

The FBI released a statement their files will be rolled out in the coming weeks. Files will black ink are useless to read. The CIA has said nothing so their files are still kept back.

Cheerful Spring · 02-11-2017 03:06PM

These are the people Hunt named as being the ringleaders.

Frank Sturgis, an anti-Castro paramilitary closely associated with Hunt. Sturgis was one of the Watergate burglars.

David Morales, Chief of Operations at the CIA's JMWAVE station in Miami. Morales himself told a few close associates of his involvement.

David Phillips, CIA propaganda specialist and later Chief of Western Hemisphere Division. Phillips was assigned to Mexico City during the mysterious trip of Lee Harvey Oswald, or someone using his name, to that city in the fall of 1963.

Antonio Veciana, Cuban exile leader of Alpha 66. Veciana told the HSCA that a "Maurice Bishop," thought by many to be Phillips, pointed out Lee Harvey Oswald to him.

William Harvey, a CIA officer who ran the ZR/RIFLE "executive action" program. Harvey fell out of favor with the Kennedys when he sent sabotage teams into Cuba during the 1962 Missile Crisis.

Cord Meyer, a high-level CIA officer whose ex-wife Mary Meyer was having an affair with JFK.

French Gunman Grassy Knoll. Hunt's chart included an unnamed French hit man on the infamous grassy knoll.
Lyndon Johnson, Vice-President.

Cheerful Spring · 02-11-2017 03:44PM

The Nal wrote: »

The issue with conspiracy theories is that there isn't a single piece of specific evidence to support any of them. Never mind something approaching proof. Forget about names.

Dallas Sheriff Deputy, Roger Craig, who was one of the first police officers on the scene and said the gun was declared to be a German Mauser. This can be easily confused if you don't know your guns, but the policeman officer said a another policeman who was knowledgeable about guns also identified it as a German Mauser! Roger Craig also said on the gun itself the barrel was stamped with identifying marks, the rifle was a German Mauser. So either he is lying or mistaken or Oswald gun was retrieved from his house and used to show guilt. There so much inconsistency with this event it surprising to me people still believe the government version of events.

Tipsy McSwagger · 02-11-2017 04:09PM

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

These are the people Hunt named as being the ringleaders.

Frank Sturgis, an anti-Castro paramilitary closely associated with Hunt. Sturgis was one of the Watergate burglars.

David Morales, Chief of Operations at the CIA's JMWAVE station in Miami. Morales himself told a few close associates of his involvement.

David Phillips, CIA propaganda specialist and later Chief of Western Hemisphere Division. Phillips was assigned to Mexico City during the mysterious trip of Lee Harvey Oswald, or someone using his name, to that city in the fall of 1963.

Antonio Veciana, Cuban exile leader of Alpha 66. Veciana told the HSCA that a "Maurice Bishop," thought by many to be Phillips, pointed out Lee Harvey Oswald to him.

William Harvey, a CIA officer who ran the ZR/RIFLE "executive action" program. Harvey fell out of favor with the Kennedys when he sent sabotage teams into Cuba during the 1962 Missile Crisis.

Cord Meyer, a high-level CIA officer whose ex-wife Mary Meyer was having an affair with JFK.

French Gunman Grassy Knoll. Hunt's chart included an unnamed French hit man on the infamous grassy knoll.
Lyndon Johnson, Vice-President.

LBJ was involved? Why would he put himself and his wife (who were 2 cars back from JFK) in the firing line of all these assassins who were shooting from the front, the grassy knoll and the opposite side of the knoll?

The Nal · 02-11-2017 04:30PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

LBJ was involved? Why would he put himself and his wife (who were 2 cars back from JFK) in the firing line of all these assassins who were shooting from the front, the grassy knoll and the opposite side of the knoll?

People who won't budge from thinking its a conspiracy, and in general people who believe "they" control everything don't tend to use common sense.

This is the 3 tramps theory which has been widely discredited for decades. More Jim Garrison insanity.

The people Hunt "named" on his deathbed, thats also nonsense.

There are dozens of people with similar stories and not a shred of evidence.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Dallas Sheriff Deputy, Roger Craig, who was one of the first police officers on the scene and said the gun was declared to be a German Mauser.

First descriptions of the bullet casings at the Tippet scene were also wrong.

You can't just pick a random quote or interview and base a whole conspiracy on that.

Dohnjoe · 02-11-2017 04:39PM

The Nal wrote: »

People who won't budge from thinking its a conspiracy, and in general people who believe "they" control everything don't tend to use common sense.

This is the 3 tramps theory which has been widely discredited for decades. More Jim Garrison insanity.

The people Hunt "named" on his deathbed, thats also nonsense.

There are dozens of people with similar stories and not a shred of evidence.

Is there any counter-theory (with supporting evidence) that holds any water?

ohnonotgmail · 02-11-2017 04:45PM

The Nal wrote: »

People who won't budge from thinking its a conspiracy, and in general people who believe "they" control everything don't tend to use common sense.

This is the 3 tramps theory which has been widely discredited for decades. More Jim Garrison insanity.

The people Hunt "named" on his deathbed, thats also nonsense.

There are dozens of people with similar stories and not a shred of evidence.

First descriptions of the bullet casings at the Tippet scene were also wrong.

You can't just pick a random quote or interview and base a whole conspiracy on that.

you seriously underestimate conspiracy theorists.

The Nal · 02-11-2017 05:10PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Is there any counter-theory (with supporting evidence) that holds any water?

Loads of theories that sound great but 54 years later not a scrap unfortunately.

Its quite possible that there were others there on the day but if they were shooting, they had silencers on and missed. And missed all background targets too.

The only evidence of bullets fired from the day were the sound of the first shot being fired, a fragment of which hit James Tague standing on the underpass, which is in line with the limo and the TSBD, the second shot being fired - the magic single bullet which is fact, and the third which hit JFK in the head.

This is a good read. Point by point, not too long either.

http://oswald-is-guilty.blogspot.ie/

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you seriously underestimate conspiracy theorists.

Haha indeed. The way to investigate is to go all the way back and work forward. Which is a long and difficult process. Conspiracy theorists seem to choose what they think happened and work backwards from there, picking up info that matches their agenda on the way.

Doing it that way, theres a case to be made for the assassin to be anyone from Frank Sinatra to his mother Rose.

He screwed over Sinatra - Sinatra has mob connections, cash to pull it together, Ruby etc.

Cheerful Spring · 02-11-2017 06:20PM

The Nal wrote: »

First descriptions of the bullet casings at the Tippet scene were also wrong.

You can't just pick a random quote or interview and base a whole conspiracy on that.

How is just a random interview. Roger Craig was a senior police officer, who was on the scene, a key eyewitness when officers found the gun. Even the media said it was a German Mauser gun they found, but changed the story later on to a Carcano. Roger Craig clearly said the gun, they found, had stamp markings along the barrel 'German Mauser'

While the shells they found may or not came from Carcano rifle at the location? So where did the rifle the police have later on come from?

Cheerful Spring · 02-11-2017 06:29PM

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

LBJ was involved? Why would he put himself and his wife (who were 2 cars back from JFK) in the firing line of all these assassins who were shooting from the front, the grassy knoll and the opposite side of the knoll?

Hunt made those allegations and he was deep into CIA cover ups and carrying out CIA clandestine operations in the 60's and 70's. And Hunt/ CIA files were all stopped from coming out last week, so this makes me even more suspicious they are covering up again.

Cheerful Spring · 02-11-2017 06:33PM

The Nal wrote: »

This is the 3 tramps theory which has been widely discredited for decades. More Jim Garrison insanity.

The people Hunt "named" on his deathbed, thats also nonsense.

We should believe a poster on boards.ie over a person who worked for the CIA and lead secrets operations for the CIA? And was documented to be the ringleader of the Watergate breakin? I think he has better credientials than you let on?

Cheerful Spring · 02-11-2017 06:38PM

The Nal wrote: »

http://oswald-is-guilty.blogspot.ie/

Conspiracy theorists seem to choose what they think happened and work backwards from there, picking up info that matches their agenda on the way.

Doing it that way, theres a case to be made for the assassin to be anyone from Frank Sinatra to his mother Rose.

He screwed over Sinatra - Sinatra has mob connections, cash to pull it together, Ruby etc.

The CIA chief historian does not even believe the official version of events are true. Maybe you should write to him and ask why does he believe the conspiracy? He has to be stupid or not up to speed on what you know?

fixXxer · 02-11-2017 06:47PM

Can anyone recommend a good podcast that discusses this?

Whiplash85 · 02-11-2017 07:20PM

Whats clear to me is some people on here would believe in the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. The real conspiracy theorists here are the ones claiming this is the act of a Lone wolf. That is just lunatic stuff and unfortunately the media have been pulling the wool over your eyes for years.

Operation Northwood and Mongoose show that the CIA wouldnt think twice of a bit of collateral damage and blow up their own people. So to answer an earlier question of who are implicated I believe the CIA have questions to answer and some people who had political motivations at the time. CIA stands for central intelligence agency. Not a whole pile of intelligent knocking together of heads back then. Look at Watergate. Was that a conspiracy? No. They tried to manipulate and subvert the truth. If people dont believe that its crazy that the most powerful man in the worlds brain can go missing and cant believe the testimony of medical professionals in Parkland then I give up.

Also for the people who are not familiar with the totality of this story. LBJ appointed Warren commission to investigate this case and they were mandated to display to public that LHO acted alone. They werent interested in counter views. This theory began to unwind in 70s as Americans saw Zapruder film for first time. House select committee had their own investigation and concluded it was probable that there was a conspiracy. Thinly veiled there were teams of shooters dotted around Dealey plaza that day.

If you ever have the chance to go to Dallas like I did firstly get to a steakhouse in Forthworth but if you have time visit the grassy knoll, Dallas Tek building and 6th floor museum (for a bit of background)

Tipsy McSwagger · 02-11-2017 07:40PM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Whats clear to me is some people on here would believe in the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. The real conspiracy theorists here are the ones claiming this is the act of a Lone wolf. That is just lunatic stuff and unfortunately the media have been pulling the wool over your eyes for years.

Operation Northwood and Mongoose show that the CIA wouldnt think twice of a bit of collateral damage and blow up their own people. So to answer an earlier question of who are implicated I believe the CIA have questions to answer and some people who had political motivations at the time. CIA stands for central intelligence agency. Not a whole pile of intelligent knocking together of heads back then. Look at Watergate. Was that a conspiracy? No. They tried to manipulate and subvert the truth. If people dont believe that its crazy that the most powerful man in the worlds brain can go missing and cant believe the testimony of medical professionals in Parkland then I give up.

Also for the people who are not familiar with the totality of this story. LBJ appointed Warren commission to investigate this case and they were mandated to display to public that LHO acted alone. They werent interested in counter views. This theory began to unwind in 70s as Americans saw Zapruder film for first time. House select committee had their own investigation and concluded it was probable that there was a conspiracy. Thinly veiled there were teams of shooters dotted around Dealey plaza that day.

If you ever have the chance to go to Dallas like I did firstly get to a steakhouse in Forthworth but if you have time visit the grassy knoll, Dallas Tek building and 6th floor museum (for a bit of background)

Based on a fourth shot and incorrect timelines, the 'fourth shot' was later to be proven as noise coming from an open microphone left on by a motorcycle cop who was blocks away from Dealey Plaza.

JFK Files

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