JFK Files

tomwaterford

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Ruby showing up minutes before killing Oswald is a smart move. You dont want to be hanging about in case you spotted and asked what you doing here. The place had police officers and media people only.

For a planned killing...he could've carried a camera as surly worlds press would've been around there giving a good cover??


I'm no professional killer etc....but I'd imagine faffing about and almost missing your target time wise despite them being nearly hour and half late deosnt seem remotely professional

Tipsy McSwagger

From what we know there was no official announcement of a delay to move Oswald.

There was no official announcement because the delay was caused by LHO himself. He wanted a sweater and they spent some time finding him one. This wasn’t a major thing.

So how did Ruby know to come to Police Station, over an hour later and shoot Oswald, and have enough time to spare?

He didn’t know. He was at home, got a call from a stripper to wire her some money and this is why he left his apartment. He sent the money, seen activity by the police underground garage and within 60 seconds of entering he shot LHO.

IF there was a conspiracy to kill Oswald, and we now know someone had telephoned the Dallas Police, the night before the killing. A man said he was a member of a committee assigned to kill Oswald. If this is anyway true this guy is telling's on his friends to protect Oswald.

The police were getting loads of calls about all types of things regarding LHO. It was a major event and all the cranks were out in force.

Ruby did not need to rush to carry out the murder, if had had exact time Oswald would be moved. Someone inside the Dallas Police office wanted him gone too, mostly likely, gave Ruby information.

If the DPD were involved LHO would have been killed at the movie theatre he was arrested in.

Cheerful Spring

tomwaterford wrote: »

This is what I meant

He just shot him as he was there,just as he was coming out??

No real planning/getaway attempt (unlike Oswald) may have just been pot luck he was there at right time as he oviously would have seen press/comotion etc from walking down street.....


if it was planned...would he not been hanging around there since the time he was due to moved and not faffing about transferring money etc

There was no getaway he knew this, this was a one way trip. Ruby has said there was a conspiracy involving people in high position of power. Why would he even say this? He later denied a conspiracy, but shortly before he died he said again he was involved in a conspiracy. The guy ran a nightclub he was not short of money. Mob hitman shooting Oswald because he liked Kennedy far fetched least for me.

Cortina_MK_IV

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There was no getaway he knew this, this was a one way trip. Ruby has said there was a conspiracy involving people in high position of power. Why would he even say this? He later denied a conspiracy, but shortly before he died he said again he was involved in a conspiracy. The guy ran a nightclub he was not short of money. Mob hitman shooting Oswald because he liked Kennedy far fetched least for me.

Imagine someone shooting a president because he had an obsession with an actress eh? Now that's far fetched.

Cheerful Spring

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

There was no official announcement because the delay was caused by LHO himself. He wanted a sweater and they spent some time finding him one. This wasn’t a major thing.



He didn’t know. He was at home, got a call from a stripper to wire her some money and this is why he left his apartment. He sent the money, seen activity by the police underground garage and within 60 seconds of entering he shot LHO.



The police were getting loads of calls about all types of things regarding LHO. It was a major event and all the cranks were out in force.



If the DPD were involved LHO would have been killed at the movie theatre he was arrested in.

You don't need to separate my posts, nothing you said changes Ruby showed up on time and killed Oswald. He knew to be there minutes before he came out he timed it perfectly like he knew when he be coming out.

And he was stalking Oswald before this another poster produced pictures of Ruby the following day at the police station. Ruby was readying to kill and murder Oswald and he likely was told to do this job or else?

Cheerful Spring

Cortina_MK_IV wrote: »

Imagine someone shooting a president because he had an obsession with an actress eh? Now that's far fetched.

What this got to do with JFK?

pitifulgod

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What this got to do with JFK?

That far more far fetched things have occurred...

Cortina_MK_IV

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What this got to do with JFK?

You think someone shooting the man that shot the president of the USA is far fetched? Hinkley shot Reagan because of an obsession with Jodie Foster.

The Nal

What sort of hitman shoots people in the stomach?!

Theres a 90% chance of survival when close to medical care. They were 4 miles from Parkland hospital. Its laughable to think Ruby was a mob hitman.

Cheerful Spring

Cortina_MK_IV wrote: »

You think someone shooting the man that shot the president of the USA is far fetched? Hinkley shot Reagan because of an obsession with Jodie Foster.

Hinkley acted alone so it's irrelevant. Ruby was a known mobster, hitman and had ties with the CIA. Oswald also had connections with intelligence agencies.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

What sort of hitman shoots people in the stomach?!

Theres a 90% chance of survival when close to medical care. They were 4 miles from Parkland hospital. Its laughable to think Ruby was a mob hitman.

Ruby said he wanted to shoot him 3 times. He was stopped after the first shot. He killed Oswald so he did not fail. He is hardly a failure if he can effort to own
gentlemen and cabaret clubs in Dallas. He have to know people and have connections.

Cortina_MK_IV

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Hinkley acted alone so it's irrelevant. Ruby was a known mobster, hitman and had ties with the CIA. Oswald also had connections with intelligence agencies.

Well I'd say it's not irrelevant as it proves that one man acting alone can beat the odds and shoot the president of the USA.

tomwaterford

Cortina_MK_IV wrote: »

Well I'd say it's not irrelevant as it proves that one man acting alone can beat the odds and shoot the president of the USA.

Tbf had he succeeded,and been killed getting away....people would be screaming conspiracy

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Ruby said he wanted to shoot him 3 times. He was stopped after the first shot. He killed Oswald so he did not fail. He is hardly a failure if he can effort to own
gentlemen and cabaret clubs in Dallas. He have to know people and have connections.

The only mob hit in history that was a stomach shot

So Ruby silenced Oswald. Chances of failure were 90% but lets ignore that.

Why did nobody silence Ruby then?

Whiplash85

tomwaterford wrote: »

Your the lad who thinks there's no evidence Oswald did it to begin with??

There is evidence that Oswald didn't shoot a rifle that day as a paraffin test showed up negative. There is NO evidence that he did. It would have been a much easier shot to hit him coming up Houston approaching you as opposed to Elm and the shot getting gradually harder. An acoustics recording and several witness testimony has shown that there was one shot with a pause and 2 shots on top of each other. This feat would have been impossible with the faulty carcano rifle he was using which required the shooter to recycle the bolt which in itself distorts consistency and throws off accuracy. He landed 2 deadly shots with it.

They had this whole sequence recreated at Quantico supervised by Gunny Hathcock who is the one of the most famous US military snipers in history. He had 93 confirmed kills in Vietnam. He also had the longest recorded kill shot of 2,500 metres. They recreated the moving target, range and angle etc but none of the snipers could pull off what Oswald did. And Oswald did it with a faulty telescope and with 4 bullets. 3 shells found in the birds nest and one in the chamber of the rifle. No ammunition was found anywhere else either at his mothers house or his home. And yet we are expected to believe that he decided he had enough with 4 bullets to secure his place in history.

Below is an image of the "magic bullet". In near perfect condition despite it creating 7 entry and exit wounds. It is simply not plausible.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/CE399side.jpg/220px-CE399side.jpg

In the new release the surgeon general said there was a bullet hole in the windscreen of the car. The bullet hole on his throat was an entry and not an exit wound.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

The only mob hit in history that was a stomach shot

Ruby shot him from the side. If THE shot from the front, he could have missed or injured someone else. Ruby was clever enough to know how to get close up and personal and not be seen till he shot the first bullet.

pitifulgod

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Ruby shot him from the side. If THE shot from the front, he could have missed or injured someone else. Ruby was clever enough to know how to get close up and personal and not be seen till he shot the first bullet.

A mob hitman who is concerned about grazing other people with bullets.... :pac:

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

The only mob hit in history that was a stomach shot

So Ruby silenced Oswald. Chances of failure were 90% but lets ignore that.

Why did nobody silence Ruby then?

Ruby denied suddenly of lung cancer even though he never smoked a few years after killing Oswald. He reported he had liver and brain cancer also. Researchers say he suddenly got sick when he got a new court trial. There is long suspicion whoever was involved ended his life?

Whiplash85

The Nal wrote: »

Apart from the murder weapon. And fingerprints. And motive. And his presence in the building. And his escape. And eyewitnesses.

His faulty rifle was planted there. His fingerprints were going to be on it as it was his rifle. He worked in the building. There was eye witnesses who placed him on lower floor at 12.15 - 12.25. Assassination happened at 12.30. I would imagine if you were planning to kill the president and most powerful man in the world you would have been in situ long before that. Motive is not evidence that he killed the president. He was not escaping from anything. Testimony suggests that Oswald aided a journalist to a telephone while exiting the building. There is no eye witness testimony placing Oswald in the window of the book depository. NOT ONE. So all you're " ANDS, ANDS ...." sum up to the square root of FA

Cheerful Spring

pitifulgod wrote: »

A mob hitman who is concerned about grazing other people with bullets.... :pac:

You got one chance to kill Oswald. In my mind blindly firing at Oswald would be the act of an amateur.

tomwaterford

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Ruby denied suddenly of lung cancer even though he never smoked a few years after killing Oswald. He reported he had liver and brain cancer also. Researchers say he suddenly got sick when he got a new court trial. There is long suspicion whoever was involved ended his life?

Could be caused by aspestos used in his buildings ..same symphoms as were ascribed to him??

tomwaterford

Whiplash85 wrote: »

His faulty rifle was planted there. His fingerprints were going to be on it as it was his rifle. He worked in the building.

The fact the bullets involved in the shooting came from the rifle is just a coincidence?

Cheerful Spring

tomwaterford wrote: »

Could be caused by aspestos used in his buildings ..same symphoms as were ascribed to him??

He was locked up. I don't think we ever know if someone killed him. We do have evidence, him personally on video saying he was part of a conspiracy and he was placed in this position to carry out the act for people in higher positions of power.

The Nal

Whiplash85 wrote: »

His faulty rifle was planted there.

Explain why he brought "curtain rods" to work that morning?

Charmeleon

Whiplash85 wrote: »

There is evidence that Oswald didn't shoot a rifle that day as a paraffin test showed up negative. There is NO evidence that he did.

Except for the witnesses who saw him with a long package that morning going into work, normally he only brought a sandwich.
His fingerprints on the rifle.
His fingerprints on the boxes used to make the snipers nest.
Photos of him holding the same rifle that fired the bullets, taken by his wife who testified that she took the photos.
Order forms in his handwriting for the rifle.

It would have been a much easier shot to hit him coming up Houston approaching you as opposed to Elm and the shot getting gradually harder. An acoustics recording and several witness testimony has shown that there was one shot with a pause and 2 shots on top of each other. This feat would have been impossible with the faulty carcano rifle he was using. He landed 2 deadly shots with it.

The timing of the last three bullets is recorded on film, you can see several seconds elapse between Kennedy reaching for his throat and the head shot. Before the car passes behind the road sign, Connolly stops waving and his head snaps almost a full 180 degrees, this is almost certainly when he heard the first shot.

They had this whole sequence recreated at Quantico supervised by Gunny Hathcock who is the one of the most famous US military snipers in history. He had 93 confirmed kills in Vietnam. He also had the longest recorded kill shot of 2,500 metres. They recreated the moving target, range and angle etc but none of the snipers could pull off what Oswald did. And Oswald did it with a faulty telescope and with 4 bullets. 3 shells found in the birds nest and one in the chamber of the rifle. No ammunition was found anywhere else either at his mothers house or his home. And yet we are expected to believe that he decided he had enough with 4 bullets to secure his place in history.

It wasn’t a machine gun, he was a marine trained in rifle shooting and knew how long he had before the president would be whisked away. In his scoring card in a sitting position he scored as a sharpshooter at 200-500 yards, 48 and 49 out of 50.
Kennedy was less than 100 yards away and was moving away, but was also moving downhill. The movement on two axis meant he appeared almost stationary.

Below is an image of the "magic bullet". In near perfect condition despite it creating 7 entry and exit wounds. It is simply not plausible.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/CE399side.jpg/220px-CE399side.jpg

Already covered in detail, by the time it hit Connolly in the wrist it had passed through the flesh of two bodies and slowed substantially. It didn’t have enough energy to deform on hitting the bone.

In the new release the surgeon general said there was a bullet hole in the windscreen of the car. The bullet hole on his throat was an entry and not an exit wound.

A bullet fragment hit the windscreen.

Cheerful Spring

tomwaterford wrote: »

The fact the bullets involved in the shooting came from the rifle is just a coincidence?

A Italian team supervised by the Italian army tried to replicate the shooting and time it take to fire 3 bullets in roughly 6 to 8 seconds.

None of sharpshooters with the Italian army used fired off 3 bullets in 6 to 8 seconds, using the same gun Oswald had. It took them 19 seconds, to reset lock and turn the bolt of the gun and aim correctly and hit a target

This does not mean Oswald never fired the weapon. It just means it's unlikely his the only shooter.

pitifulgod

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You got one chance to kill Oswald. In my mind blindly firing at Oswald would be the act of an amateur.

Shooting him in the stomach wasn't guaranteed to kill him.... Pretty amateurish if you're covering up a massive conspiracy.

Cheerful Spring

pitifulgod wrote: »

Shooting him in the stomach wasn't guaranteed to kill him.... Pretty amateurish if you're covering up a massive conspiracy.

You complaining it amateurish even though he died after, what?

Charmeleon

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

A Italian team supervised by the Italian army tried to replicate the shooting and time it take to fire 3 bullets in roughly 6 to 8 seconds.

None of sharpshooters with the Italian army used fired off 3 bullets in 6 to 8 seconds, using the same gun Oswald had. It took them 19 seconds, to reset lock and turn the bolt of the gun and aim correctly and hit a target

This does not mean Oswald never fired the weapon. It just means it's unlikely his the only shooter.

One guy in this video does it in less than five seconds, none of the participants had the months of practice Oswald had, most only had a few hours with the rifle. Marina Oswald said Lee spent hours and hours practising with the gun at home on a regular basis.

Most guys got two hits in under six seconds, even though they knew they were on a timer for the fastest shooting, Oswald probably didn’t know if he was going to fire two or more bullets and certainly was more concerned with aiming rather than beating a clock.
https://youtu.be/WovyEqfR8Hg

tomwaterford

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

A Italian team supervised by the Italian army tried to replicate the shooting and time it take to fire 3 bullets in roughly 6 to 8 seconds.

None of sharpshooters with the Italian army used fired off 3 bullets in 6 to 8 seconds, using the same gun Oswald had. It took them 19 seconds, to reset lock and turn the bolt of the gun and aim correctly and hit a target

This does not mean Oswald never fired the weapon. It just means it's unlikely his the only shooter.

6 - 8 seconds is a bit of false info....in that he only had to reload twice In that time and refind the target??