Footballer of the Year

kilns · 20-09-2017 8:34am

But if Mayoaremagic wants a counter argument against Andy Moran, Con O'Callaghan played 4 games less than him this year and only scored 1-4 less than him, with O'Callagan playing against more Division 1 teams.

Stoner · 20-09-2017 8:40am

corny wrote:

Its far too simplistic to say Kev Mc and Connolly (the only two subs on long enough to have any impact) changed the game though. Mannion and COC ran their markers ragged showing for the ball. Mannions first score set the tone. McCarthy started running forward, the defensive pressure was upped, kickouts were sorted, etc. The reality is Dublin upped their performance all over the park and were the better team because of it. Wouldn't be the first time they've done that to Mayo.

Don't forget that Cian O'Sullivan pushed up too, made one of rocks scores by running into the corner to open things up a bit

Stoner · 20-09-2017 8:42am

kilns wrote:

But if Mayoaremagic wants a counter argument against Andy Moran, Con O'Callaghan played 4 games less than him this year and only scored 1-4 less than him, with O'Callagan playing against more Division 1 teams.

Don't encourage him.
He hasn't gotten around to looking at the highlights yet.

corny · 20-09-2017 9:22am

Stoner wrote: »

Don't forget that Cian O'Sullivan pushed up too, made one of rocks scores by running into the corner to open things up a bit

True. In the 70th minute he actually ran through and was brought down by AOS. He picked himself up, reloaded and made a chance for BB. He wasted it and COS went looking for the turnover again. The 70th ****ing minute now! Amazing.

O'Sullivan has been brilliant this year Stoner.

blanch152 · 20-09-2017 9:41am

kilns wrote: »

Thats the point I was making, he was so important to them, they were nothing without him this year but Dublin players too played to a similar high level but it doesnt get as much attention as most of the Dublin players all play to this high level

To be consistent, those putting Moran forward for POTY because of his importance to Mayo should be arguing for around 10 All-Stars for Dublin players because of the spread of excellence, but you won't see them doing that, you will see the same old tired arguments for players like Clarke and O'Connor who bottled the big moments last Sunday.

Shurimgreat · 20-09-2017 9:44am

blanch152 wrote: »

Look when you have Andy Moran put forward as a candidate, a player who failed to contribute after the 22nd minute of the final, who missed a chance to put Mayo ahead after 58 minutes, and who was substituted for the crunch final ten minutes, then you have to consider someone with the consistent excellence of Cluxton to be a better candidate. However, as I have said already, the decision won't hinder on who is best and Moran is likely to get it.

Its clear you are a windup merchant. You're going on ignore so I don't have to read any more of your nonsense.
To genuine Dublin supporters well done on Sunday.
To begrudgers like blanch152, you do a lot of disservice to Dublin and people's respect for Dublin and Dublin football declines as a result because of people like you.
The funniest thing of all is you said you didn't care who player of the year was, and yet you post dozens of times on this thread questioning why a Mayo man should get it over a Dublin player. Laughable. And begrudging.

cms88 · 20-09-2017 10:17am

Andy Moran. But the media love in will mean Cluxton

Buer · 20-09-2017 10:21am

cms88 wrote: »

Andy Moran. But the media love in will mean Cluxton

The players vote for FOTY.

blanch152 · 20-09-2017 10:23am

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Its clear you are a windup merchant. You're going on ignore so I don't have to read any more of your nonsense.
To genuine Dublin supporters well done on Sunday.
To begrudgers like blanch152, you do a lot of disservice to Dublin and people's respect for Dublin and Dublin football declines as a result because of people like you.
The funniest thing of all is you said you didn't care who player of the year was, and yet you post dozens of times on this thread questioning why a Mayo man should get it over a Dublin player. Laughable. And begrudging.

I can't begrudge Andy Moran winning something when he hasn't won it already.

However, when the spurious argument that Cluxton isn't deserving because he lost 6 out of 14 first-half kicks is being used by many posters, pointing out the obvious about Moran - missed a vital chance near the end, got substituted for the crunch ten minutes and didn't score after the 22nd minute - is highlighting the poverty of the arguments against Cluxton.

MayoAreMagic · 20-09-2017 10:27am

blanch152 wrote: »

I have said already that McCarthy, Mannion and O'Callaghan are worthy candidates too, the sustained excellence of a large number of Dublin players is one of the reasons why the vote will split and allow Moran to take it.

You keep repeating the vote splitting, yet offer no more explanation than the phrase itself.
What vote will split? The Dublin vote? They only get 25-odd votes anyway. I'd have thought the Dublin players would vote for the most deserving of their team mates rather than splitting their vote 2 ways for no apparent reason? Even if they did, there is still another 800-odd votes in the thing...

kilns wrote: »

But if Mayoaremagic wants a counter argument against Andy Moran, Con O'Callaghan played 4 games less than him this year and only scored 1-4 less than him, with O'Callagan playing against more Division 1 teams.

Well if we take blanch's reasoning, he only made a contribution in the first minute of the game, so he isn't a candidate :rolleyes:
In reality, if you want to go off scoring alone, then O'Connor must get poty and be accepted as the greatest forward of all time, as he broke all records this year...
The reality is O'Callaghan had a good year, but he probably wasn't featuring prominently enough at big times. That is why McCarthy is probably Dublin's front runner, and Moran is probably the most deserving. That is just the way the award works.

bucketybuck · 20-09-2017 10:28am

blanch152 wrote: »

However, when the spurious argument that Cluxton isn't deserving because he lost 6 out of 14 first-half kicks is being used by many posters, pointing out the obvious about Moran - missed a vital chance near the end, got substituted for the crunch ten minutes and didn't score after the 22nd minute - is highlighting the poverty of the arguments against Cluxton.

The poverty is in the arguments for Cluxton.

You have been asked this already, stop bitching about who shouldn't get it and justify why Cluxton should get it?

MayoAreMagic · 20-09-2017 10:29am

blanch152 wrote: »

I can't begrudge Andy Moran winning something when he hasn't won it already

And yet, that is exactly what you are doing.
Get over your biases man. He deserves the award, be honest enough to admit it.

cms88 · 20-09-2017 10:33am

Buer wrote: »

The players vote for FOTY.

Let me rephrase then, The general Cluxton love in

cms88 · 20-09-2017 10:34am

bucketybuck wrote: »

The poverty is in the arguments for Cluxton.

You have been asked this already, stop bitching about who shouldn't get it and justify why Cluxton should get it?

Because he's the greatest player to ever play any sport ever, that's why he should win it

corny · 20-09-2017 10:40am

cms88 wrote: »

Let me rephrase then, The general Cluxton love in

I think there's a love in with both Moran and Cluxton. Cluxton 'the man who has changed football' & Moran 'the stalwart who carries the team'. Wouldn't give it to either but then I always disagree with the chosen winner of these awards. Keegan winning last year left me dumbfounded.

MayoAreMagic · 20-09-2017 10:46am

corny wrote: »

I think there's a love in with both Moran and Cluxton. Cluxton 'the man who has changed football' & Moran 'the stalwart who carries the team'. Wouldn't give it to either but then I always disagree with the chosen winner of these awards. Keegan winning last year left me dumbfounded.

Why? Keegan marked every talisman out of it, outscored most of them. Media campaigns answered with goal of the season. Massive scores off both feet, mercurial stuff.
Like what did fenton actually do to deserve this award last year? A strong final-replay display?
The reality is some dub fans had themselves brainwashed about fenton last year, the players called it right.

kilns · 20-09-2017 10:48am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

blanch152 wrote: »

I have said already that McCarthy, Mannion and O'Callaghan are worthy candidates too, the sustained excellence of a large number of Dublin players is one of the reasons why the vote will split and allow Moran to take it.

You keep repeating the vote splitting, yet offer no more explanation than the phrase itself.
What vote will split? The Dublin vote? They only get 25-odd votes anyway. I'd have thought the Dublin players would vote for the most deserving of their team mates rather than splitting their vote 2 ways for no apparent reason? Even if they did, there is still another 800-odd votes in the thing...

kilns wrote: »

But if Mayoaremagic wants a counter argument against Andy Moran, Con O'Callaghan played 4 games less than him this year and only scored 1-4 less than him, with O'Callagan playing against more Division 1 teams.

Well if we take blanch's reasoning, he only made a contribution in the first minute of the game, so he isn't a candidate :rolleyes:
In reality, if you want to go off scoring alone, then O'Connor must get poty and be accepted as the greatest forward of all time, as he broke all records this year...
The reality is O'Callaghan had a good year, but he probably wasn't featuring prominently enough at big times. That is why McCarthy is probably Dublin's front runner, and Moran is probably the most deserving. That is just the way the award works.

On what basis should Moran win the award then if its not for his scoring?

cms88 · 20-09-2017 10:51am

corny wrote: »

I think there's a love in with both Moran and Cluxton. Cluxton 'the man who has changed football' & Moran 'the stalwart who carries the team'. Wouldn't give it to either but then I always disagree with the chosen winner of these awards. Keegan winning last year left me dumbfounded.

Agree with Moran somewhat. Keegan was depraving of it last year

cms88 · 20-09-2017 10:53am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why? Keegan marked every talisman out of it, outscored most of them. Media campaigns answered with goal of the season. Massive scores off both feet, mercurial stuff.
Like what did fenton actually do to deserve this award last year? A strong final-replay display?
The reality is some dub fans had themselves brainwashed about fenton last year, the players called it right.

Agree is hugely over hyped. This year proved that. Cleaned out mutable times by mutable players who we're led to believe are nowhere near his level

Crash Bang Wall · 20-09-2017 10:58am

STB. wrote: »

This is all in your head.

11/11 in the second half.

Over the season has constantly found his man with kickouts. He has brought a new dynamic to the game and role of the goalkeeper.

Is there any stats list for keepers that ignore up to 20 yard passes

In his 11/11 in the second half, all after the sending offs were to free men when Mayo dropped off the kickouts. Hell I could do that.

Its not a dig at Cluxton, hes the best keeper Ive ever seen.

Its a dig at how stats can be manipulated

MayoAreMagic · 20-09-2017 10:59am

kilns wrote: »

On what basis should Moran win the award then if its not for his scoring?

It is one of many factors. The weight of the scores is important also. Like rattling off a couple of handy points when you are 20 points ahead and the other team aren't even tracking any more is a bit different to getting a massive score to tie up a game while being double marked, fouled and god knows what else. That is why Moran is more deserving than say O'Connor.
He is routinely double marked, but still does loads of damage. He also sets up loads of scores for team mates.

General play comes into it also. For example, someone like kevin mcloughlin mightn't be flying up the scoring charts, but his play is just really intelligent and classy, which is why he would be closer to the top than O'Connor also.

If you believe it is all about scoring, then why aren't you suggesting O'Connor as poty?

MayoAreMagic · 20-09-2017 11:03am

cms88 wrote: »

Agree is hugely over hyped. This year proved that. Cleaned out mutable times by mutable players who we're led to believe are nowhere near his level

He is still a good player, not as good as he is being made out to be alright, but everyone can have a bad season now and again. Id consider him of a similar level to Parsons - who funnily enough is completely under-rated.

kilns · 20-09-2017 11:05am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

On what basis should Moran win the award then if its not for his scoring?

It is one of many factors. The weight of the scores is important also. Like rattling off a couple of handy points when you are 20 points ahead and the other team aren't even tracking any more is a bit different to getting a massive score to tie up a game while being double marked, fouled and god knows what else. That is why Moran is more deserving than say O'Connor.
He is routinely double marked, but still does loads of damage. He also sets up loads of scores for team mates.

General play comes into it also. For example, someone like kevin mcloughlin mightn't be flying up the scoring charts, but his play is just really intelligent and classy, which is why he would be closer to the top than O'Connor also.

If you believe it is all about scoring, then why aren't you suggesting O'Connor as poty?

I am not, I am asking you for your reason for supporting Andy Moran, so if the weight of scores is an important factor, how about scoring a goal in a tight All Ireland Final, surely means O'Callaghan is as a strong contender as Moran. He too contributes a huge amount in general play.
I would say o'Callaghan and Moran are on a par in terms of performance this year. However, McCarthy has just been so classy throughout the whole year and is the deserving winner and also contributed some important scores when it mattered most

MayoAreMagic · 20-09-2017 11:09am

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Is there any stats list for keepers that ignore up to 20 yard passes

In his 11/11 in the second half, all after the sending offs were to free men when Mayo dropped off the kickouts. Hell I could do that.

Its not a dig at Cluxton, hes the best keeper Ive ever seen.

Its a dig at how stats can be manipulated

That point has already been made man, multiple times. blanch and these lads don't want to hear it and will either ignore it or start finding fault with Clarke - because that somehow makes a difference to cluxton's poor kickouts.

MayoAreMagic · 20-09-2017 11:15am

kilns wrote: »

I am not, I am asking you for your reason for supporting Andy Moran, so if the weight of scores is an important factor, how about scoring a goal in a tight All Ireland Final, surely means O'Callaghan is as a strong contender as Moran. He too contributes a huge amount in general play.
I would say o'Callaghan and Moran are on a par in terms of performance this year. However, McCarthy has just been so classy throughout the whole year and is the deserving winner and also contributed some important scores when it mattered most

Or setting one up out of nothing?
O'Callaghan hasn't had enough big games in tight situations and McCarthy while very good, doesn't have as many big interventions as moran. You can argue that mayo have an advantage by playing tight games in the qualifiers week after week, and you would be right. But that is just the nature of the award. Bernard Brogan won it in a similar way in 2010. Were you complaining about that?

kilns · 20-09-2017 11:25am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

I am not, I am asking you for your reason for supporting Andy Moran, so if the weight of scores is an important factor, how about scoring a goal in a tight All Ireland Final, surely means O'Callaghan is as a strong contender as Moran. He too contributes a huge amount in general play.
I would say o'Callaghan and Moran are on a par in terms of performance this year. However, McCarthy has just been so classy throughout the whole year and is the deserving winner and also contributed some important scores when it mattered most

Or setting one up out of nothing?
O'Callaghan hasn't had enough big games in tight situations and McCarthy while very good, doesn't have as many big interventions as moran. You can argue that mayo have an advantage by playing tight games in the qualifiers week after week, and you would be right. But that is just the nature of the award. Bernard Brogan won it in a similar way in 2010. Were you complaining about that?

Fiar enough thats your opinion. But I will question your logic about McCarthy and big interventions interventions compared to Moran, he was MOM in the All Ireland final and scored crucial points from Wing Back, there is no bigger intervention needed. Nobody will remember that Andy Moran played well in a semi final apart from those in Mayo, but people will remember the performance McCarthy put in the final because thats where it mattered the most and he produced the goods.
That is why is the derserving POTY, because up the final he had already set a high standard

tritium · 20-09-2017 11:29am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Or setting one up out of nothing?
O'Callaghan hasn't had enough big games in tight situations and McCarthy while very good, doesn't have as many big interventions as moran. You can argue that mayo have an advantage by playing tight games in the qualifiers week after week, and you would be right. But that is just the nature of the award. Bernard Brogan won it in a similar way in 2010. Were you complaining about that?

Its hardly their fault that Dublin play at a level where Mayo and Kerry are the only two teams who can be competitive against them. Should a player or team get more credit for pulling it out of the fire in a tight game than for being so dominant that the situation rarely or never arises?

blanch152 · 20-09-2017 11:39am

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

Is there any stats list for keepers that ignore up to 20 yard passes

In his 11/11 in the second half, all after the sending offs were to free men when Mayo dropped off the kickouts. Hell I could do that.

Its not a dig at Cluxton, hes the best keeper Ive ever seen.

Its a dig at how stats can be manipulated

Yes, stats can be manipulated.

Look at Clarke, no matter how good his kickout stats were on Sunday, the last two were the losing of the game.

MayoAreMagic · 20-09-2017 11:41am

kilns wrote: »

Fiar enough thats your opinion. But I will question your logic about McCarthy and big interventions interventions compared to Moran, he was MOM in the All Ireland final and scored crucial points from Wing Back, there is no bigger intervention needed. Nobody will remember that Andy Moran played well in a semi final apart from those in Mayo, but people will remember the performance McCarthy put in the final because thats where it mattered the most and he produced the goods.
That is why is the derserving POTY, because up the final he had already set a high standard

And that is your opinion.

Why wouldn't the players remember he played well in every game? You keep making assumptions that the people voting are basically poorly informed fools. That is where your argument perishes every time. The same goes for this split voting nonsense. They are these players' peers. They know more about it than you do.

tritium wrote: »

Its hardly their fault that Dublin play at a level where Mayo and Kerry are the only two teams who can be competitive against them. Should a player or team get more credit for pulling it out of the fire in a tight game than for being so dominant that the situation rarely or never arises?

I never said it was anyone's fault. I simply pointed out that is how the award tends to go. However, it doesn't really matter in this instance, as moran actually played better than any of them anyway.

MayoAreMagic · 20-09-2017 11:44am

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

That point has already been made man, multiple times. blanch and these lads don't want to hear it and will either ignore it or start finding fault with Clarke - because that somehow makes a difference to cluxton's poor kickouts.

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, stats can be manipulated.

Look at Clarke, no matter how good his kickout stats were on Sunday, the last two were the losing of the game.

:rolleyes:

Footballer of the Year

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