Footballer of the Year

PARlance · 19-09-2017 4:10pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well more-so by virtue of the fact that he is the best player this season and thereby 100% deserves winning the award in question....

BTW, this 'split vote' thing. How does it work? How is this relevant to the county someone is from? Surely people just vote for who they think was the best and that is it? How do votes get split?

Ah look, I don't often agree with Blanch but he's giving it to Andy...with a little twist of lemon but I'm sure it wasn't easy. Be grateful or he'll be talking Cluxton again

Edit: too late

blanch152 wrote: »

Don't really mind if they do, don't think Cluxton for example would complain...

corny · 19-09-2017 4:11pm

Jesus some awful salty Mayo supporters upping their post count since the loss.

blanch152 · 19-09-2017 4:11pm

kilns wrote: »

He bottled the most important two kicks of his year

It would be funny if Clarke got it though.

He was dropped for the replay last year, which cost Mayo the All-Ireland.
This year, two bad kickouts in a row cost Mayo the All-Ireland.

Maybe he should be the Dublin nominee for the position.

Buer · 19-09-2017 4:12pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

BTW, this 'split vote' thing. How does it work? How is this relevant to the county someone is from? Surely people just vote for who they think was the best and that is it? How do votes get split?

Because some people will want to vote for a player from a particular county rather than a particular player. For example, if Colm Boyle, Andy Moran and James McCarthy are the ones nominated you'll get a good chunk of people wanting to see Mayo rewarded for their season in some shape or form but they may not have a particular preference...some of them will vote for Boyle and some will vote for Moran.

Then the remaining people who think a Dublin player should win the award have only one option. It shouldn't be like that but it's human nature.

The same thing happens in every general election where parties decline to run more than one candidate in a constituency where they're not strong as they know they've a far better chance of having someone elected with only one option to vote for.

MayoAreMagic · 19-09-2017 4:16pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Amazing post. How you can agree that Cluxton went 11/11 in the second half but then say that the Mayo management turned Cluxton's kickouts on their head!!! If the Mayo management strategy was so good, how come Cluxton went 11/11 and Dublin won? It is bizarre to suggest Mayo won that battle.

Eh, because they were going so badly that he was ordered to go short for the rest of the game (Sherlock moved faster than he ever did in 95!). Even you could kick 11/11 when it is sideways 10 yards to a free man...

Dyr · 19-09-2017 4:17pm

I'd imagine Moran will get the sympathy vote given that he's an old guy who had an Indian summer but lost again

Mannion the best forward this year for me, took some ridiculous scores

kilns · 19-09-2017 4:18pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

blanch152 wrote: »

Amazing post. How you can agree that Cluxton went 11/11 in the second half but then say that the Mayo management turned Cluxton's kickouts on their head!!! If the Mayo management strategy was so good, how come Cluxton went 11/11 and Dublin won? It is bizarre to suggest Mayo won that battle.

Eh, because they were going so badly that he was ordered to go short for the rest of the game (Sherlock moved faster than he ever did in 95!). Even you could kick 11/11 when it is sideways 10 yards to a free man...

and why didnt Mayo contest those kick outs? Because they knew if they pushed up Cluxton would ping it over their heads straight into a Dublin players arms and creating an attacking opportunity straight away.

kilns · 19-09-2017 4:19pm

I would argue Mannion has had a better year than Moran but as Moran was the guy who carried a team on his shoulders he will get it and the campaign will start too

edit: just saw above poster

MayoAreMagic · 19-09-2017 4:24pm

Buer wrote: »

Because some people will want to vote for a player from a particular county rather than a particular player. For example, if Colm Boyle, Andy Moran and James McCarthy are the ones nominated you'll get a good chunk of people wanting to see Mayo rewarded for their season in some shape or form but they may not have a particular preference...some of them will vote for Boyle and some will vote for Moran..

Then the remaining people who think a Dublin player should win the award have only one option. It shouldn't be like that but it's human nature.

What people are these though? It isn't open to the public. The type of person who only wants to vote for a county isn't going to have a vote...

Buer wrote: »

The same thing happens in every general election where parties decline to run more than one candidate in a constituency where they're not strong as they know they've a far better chance of having someone elected with only one option to vote for.

Not really like with like. This isn't a vote on policy or party etc. It is simply a question, who was the best player.

Shurimgreat · 19-09-2017 4:25pm

corny wrote: »

Jesus some awful salty Mayo supporters upping their post count since the loss.

And this is related to Footballer of the Year how?

kilns · 19-09-2017 4:27pm

and who do people reckon Young Player of the year will be . Con O'Callaghan has no real competition i would suspect

blanch152 · 19-09-2017 4:32pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What people are these though? It isn't open to the public. The type of person who only wants to vote for a county isn't going to have a vote...

Not really like with like. This isn't a vote on policy or party etc. It is simply a question, who was the best player.

You cannot remove the context of the team performance from the performance of the player.

If Tom Parsons and Seamie O'Shea had picked up injuries before the Kerry game and Mayo got wiped out with Moran not contributing, he wouldn't be in the conversation. It was the performance of the team around him that gave him the platform.

At the same time, his value-added contribution has to be significant so that he stands out ahead of his teammates. It is a bit of a paradox. If the team plays so well overall that his individual contribution gets lost in the general excellence of the team (say a Paul Mannion) then you won't get the prize. If the team doesn't play well enough, then you don't get to the crunch games and you won't get the prize.

If this was being done properly (and let's face it, it isn't being done properly) you would see a correlation between All-Stars and POTY. If a team doesn't win an All-Ireland but have an outstanding contributer who makes POTY, then they should only be able to pick up a small number of All-Stars because of the factors I outlined. We know from last year that it doesn't work out like that.

All of which comes back to the point that it isn't about the best player, it is about the media profile, the public perception and the quirks of the voting system etc. That is why I said Andy Moran is likely to get it.

blanch152 · 19-09-2017 4:33pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Eh, because they were going so badly that he was ordered to go short for the rest of the game (Sherlock moved faster than he ever did in 95!). Even you could kick 11/11 when it is sideways 10 yards to a free man...

I suppose I could kick 11/11 when it is sideways 10 yards to a free man.......pity Clarke couldn't.

blanch152 · 19-09-2017 4:34pm

kilns wrote: »

and who do people reckon Young Player of the year will be . Con O'Callaghan has no real competition i would suspect

Oh we don't want a Dub getting it, has to be David Clifford for his minor performance.

MayoAreMagic · 19-09-2017 4:36pm

kilns wrote: »

and why didnt Mayo contest those kick outs? Because they knew if they pushed up Cluxton would ping it over their heads straight into a Dublin players arms and creating an attacking opportunity straight away.

Cluxton got 11/11 because his long kickouts were so poor, he was told to go short. That is why 11/11 is no great feat. Change the subject all you want, but that was the point made, and it is 100% accurate.

Dyr · 19-09-2017 4:37pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I suppose I could kick 11/11 when it is sideways 10 yards to a free man.......pity Clarke couldn't.

Clarkes really good at kicking a ball sideways in fairness...

MayoAreMagic · 19-09-2017 4:38pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I suppose I could kick 11/11 when it is sideways 10 yards to a free man.......pity Clarke couldn't.

Why do you keep talking about Clarke when we are talking about Cluxton?

kilns · 19-09-2017 4:40pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

and why didnt Mayo contest those kick outs? Because they knew if they pushed up Cluxton would ping it over their heads straight into a Dublin players arms and creating an attacking opportunity straight away.

Cluxton got 11/11 because his long kickouts were so poor, he was told to go short. That is why 11/11 is no great feat. Change the subject all you want, but that was the point made, and it is 100% accurate.

Mayo went man for man and the tactic was to kick long and compete. You know as well as everyone else, Cluxton is well capable of pinging it to a guy in space and that is what would happen if Mayo pushed up. Or do you not think he is capable of it?

Martina1991 · 19-09-2017 4:42pm

Bambi wrote: »

I'd imagine Moran will get the sympathy vote given that he's an old guy who had an Indian summer but lost again

Sympathy vote my arse. He had a fantastic year. He deserves to be nominated and has an excellent chance of winning it.

Buer · 19-09-2017 4:42pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What people are these though? It isn't open to the public. The type of person who only wants to vote for a county isn't going to have a vote...

Not really. Players are human. Some are parochial, some aren't. Some are pre-disposed to wanting a certain county to succeed, some aren't. It's a very real factor when they vote on the nominees. It may not be the decisive but some votes will be split by it if 2 players are nominated from a single county.

This being a vote for a player by players doesn't change any of that. A lot of people voting won't have even stepped on a pitch this season with the nominees.

MayoAreMagic · 19-09-2017 4:43pm

blanch152 wrote: »

You cannot remove the context of the team performance from the performance of the player.

If Tom Parsons and Seamie O'Shea had picked up injuries before the Kerry game and Mayo got wiped out with Moran not contributing, he wouldn't be in the conversation. It was the performance of the team around him that gave him the platform.

At the same time, his value-added contribution has to be significant so that he stands out ahead of his teammates. It is a bit of a paradox. If the team plays so well overall that his individual contribution gets lost in the general excellence of the team (say a Paul Mannion) then you won't get the prize. If the team doesn't play well enough, then you don't get to the crunch games and you won't get the prize.

If this was being done properly (and let's face it, it isn't being done properly) you would see a correlation between All-Stars and POTY. If a team doesn't win an All-Ireland but have an outstanding contributer who makes POTY, then they should only be able to pick up a small number of All-Stars because of the factors I outlined. We know from last year that it doesn't work out like that.

All of which comes back to the point that it isn't about the best player, it is about the media profile, the public perception and the quirks of the voting system etc. That is why I said Andy Moran is likely to get it.

You never said who these people are that get to vote, yet only vote based on the player's county and not their performances. Who are they?

Shurimgreat · 19-09-2017 4:44pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why do you keep talking about Clarke when we are talking about Cluxton?

And why is he still posting on this thread when he said he didn't care about the award?

blanch152 · 19-09-2017 4:45pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why do you keep talking about Clarke when we are talking about Cluxton?

I'm not being funny or anything, it was you who started comparing and told me that I could kick as well as Cluxton in the second half. I was pleased with your comparison and compared myself favourably to Clarke. I must also be better than that Kerry goalkeeper that kicked it over the end-line. Cluxton must be better than him too, having managed 11/11 without kicking one over the end-line.

Thanks again for the great compliment.

kilns · 19-09-2017 4:45pm

Buer wrote: »

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

What people are these though? It isn't open to the public. The type of person who only wants to vote for a county isn't going to have a vote...

Not really. Players are human. Some are parochial, some aren't. Some are pre-disposed to wanting a certain county to succeed, some aren't. It's a very real factor when they vote on the nominees. It may not be the decisive but some votes will be split by it if 2 players are nominated from a single county.

This being a vote for a player by players doesn't change any of that. A lot of people voting won't have even stepped on a pitch this season with the nominees.

Players are human also and some would have this in built dislike for Dublin and thats fair enough and it would decide who they vote for. But Oisin McConville said it well, how could you hate Dublin they are the perfect Gaelic Football team who play football the right way

Shurimgreat · 19-09-2017 4:48pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I'm not being funny or anything, it was you who started comparing and told me that I could kick as well as Cluxton in the second half. I was pleased with your comparison and compared myself favourably to Clarke. I must also be better than that Kerry goalkeeper that kicked it over the end-line. Cluxton must be better than him too, having managed 11/11 without kicking one over the end-line.

Thanks again for the great compliment.

He missed 8/14 in the first half though.

MayoAreMagic · 19-09-2017 4:48pm

Buer wrote: »

Not really. Players are human. Some are parochial, some aren't. Some are pre-disposed to wanting a certain county to succeed, some aren't. It's a very real factor when they vote on the nominees. It may not be the decisive but some votes will be split by it if 2 players are nominated from a single county.

Wanting a county to succeed isn't relevant to an individual award though. For example, you lads are always saying it is 31 v 1 against Dublin, yet Dublin have 4 of the last 7 POTY awards. It doesn't add up.

I actually think it is a bit of an insult to gaa players to suggest that they are that biased that they wouldn't be honest enough to vote for the best player of that season.

Shurimgreat · 19-09-2017 4:50pm

The idea that Footballer of the Year should go to a goalie who can kick the ball sideways for 10 yards over someone as brilliant and as skillful as Andy Moran is frankly laughable and ludicrous.

Even in victory, some Dubs are sore losers!

kilns · 19-09-2017 4:51pm

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Buer wrote: »

Not really. Players are human. Some are parochial, some aren't. Some are pre-disposed to wanting a certain county to succeed, some aren't. It's a very real factor when they vote on the nominees. It may not be the decisive but some votes will be split by it if 2 players are nominated from a single county.

Wanting a county to succeed isn't relevant to an individual award though. For example, you lads are always saying it is 31 v 1 against Dublin, yet Dublin have 4 of the last 7 POTY awards. It doesn't add up.

I actually think it is a bit of an insult to gaa players to suggest that they are that biased that they wouldn't be honest enough to vote for the best player of that season.

Well sometimes its hard to ignore certain players
Take Colm Parkinson as an example he despises Dublin
Its natural and an accepted part of life but not all hate Dublin

kilns · 19-09-2017 4:53pm

Anyway how I see it going
1. Andy Moran
2. James McCarthy
3. Paul Mannion

YPOTY
1. Con O'Callaghan
2. ?????

MayoAreMagic · 19-09-2017 4:55pm

kilns wrote: »

Players are human also and some would have this in built dislike for Dublin and thats fair enough and it would decide who they vote for. But Oisin McConville said it well, how could you hate Dublin they are the perfect Gaelic Football team who play football the right way

So just to be clear; mcconville - a former gaa player - doesn't hate Dublin and praises their play. And that proves that players hate Dublin...

Footballer of the Year

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