Footballer of the Year

Buer

MayoAreMagic wrote:

But that isn't a bias based just on county though. In fact that is an example of non-dubs voting for a dub despite him not deserving it on footballing grounds - the very opposite of the argument that 'people just wont vote for dubs regardless of them deserving it' as some pushed earlier.

Which is something I've been at pains to explain isn't what the split vote concept is about but you still don't grasp it and are obsessed with making it about counties.

MayoAreMagic

Buer wrote: »

Which is something I've been at pains to explain isn't what the split vote concept is about but you still don't grasp it and are obsessed with making it about counties.

I didn't make it about counties at all. I was told that some lads will have built up a dislike of Dublin and this was the reasoning behind it. That is what I was responding to.

However, if what you say is a big issue in the award, and guys might vote for a guy on a losing team out of pity for example - surely we would have far more winners who are also losing AI finalists?

The reality is the premise in this suggestion is that gaa players vote emotionally en masse, and yet there is not one piece of evidence to suggest this. In fact it is quite the opposite.

Buer

MayoAreMagic wrote:

The reality is the premise in this suggestion is that gaa players vote emotionally en masse, and yet there is not one piece of evidence to suggest this. In fact it is quite the opposite.

Yet again, I never said that. I clearly stated it may not be a definitive factor. With that said, it would be exceptionally naive to believe the vote being split does not occur to some extent.

liam7831

liam7831 wrote: »

Donaghy for me

It would really kill that whole "Moran or which Dublin player, and why" debate!

bucketybuck

gramar wrote: »

Hard to see why Cluxton is even being mentioned.

I'm bemused by that one too, it must have been the Sunday game pre-match fawning that put him into peoples minds. He did perfectly well all year but didn't do anything above and beyond that would push him into POTY reckoning. Thats not even his fault, being the keeper of a side that is controlling every game and racking up cricket scores doesn't leave much chance for heroics, but thats just how it is.

I don't think there really is a standout candidate this year. Moran did very well but he wasn't some unstoppable juggernaut either. I think McCarthy was indeed very good all year and it does matter that he topped it off with a sprint finish, but again it wasn't the sort of year from him that demanded peoples attention.

There just isn't any standout candidate, which means Moran will get it partly because he was actually very good, and partly because there is room for a legacy award.

Poor_old_gill

So Moran is getting this year's 'lets pity Mayo' award? Played really well against a catastrophic Kerry full back line and didnt stand out much other than that- was awful in the quarter against Ros

Has to be Cluxton for me and if not him then McCarthy- I would include Geaney in the mix too.

bucketybuck

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Has to be Cluxton for me

And there it is again. Why on earth is Cluxton even in the conversation?

"Ladies and gentlemen, your player of the year, the guy who barely had anything to do all championship..."

Give him another all-star, sure, why not, but how on earth can people call him Player of the year?

I'd love to see a justification for the award that wasn't vague mumbling about great kickouts.

Buer

bucketybuck wrote:

Give him another all-star, sure, why not, but how on earth can people call him Player of the year?

He shouldn't be but he will be. The nominations owe as much to profile as anything. He lifted the trophy for the 4th time and that will push him into the consciousness of those selecting the nominees.

I know he has at least two nominations in the past based on similar seasons.

Fr Tod Umptious

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

So Moran is getting this year's 'lets pity Mayo' award? Played really well against a catastrophic Kerry full back line and didnt stand out much other than that- was awful in the quarter against Ros

Has to be Cluxton for me and if not him then McCarthy- I would include Geaney in the mix too.

Ah yes the old revisionist history.

Kerry were 1/2 in both games to beat Mayo, the only team who could challenge Dublin etc etc

And 30 something year old Andy Moran scores 2-7 against them.

Suddenly they have a catastrophic full back line and Paul Geaney who scored more from placed balls than play, and a flukey goal v Cork is a more worthy nomination.

Surprised you did not call Moran a "rat" like you did other Mayo players, or are you still on a warning for that ?

Poor_old_gill

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ah yes the old revisionist history.

Kerry were 1/2 in both games to beat Mayo, the only team who could challenge Dublin etc etc

And 30 something year old Andy Moran scores 2-7 against them.

Suddenly they have a catastrophic full back line and Paul Geaney who scored more from placed balls than play, and a flukey goal v Cork is a more worthy nomination.

Surprised you did not call Moran a "rat" like you did other Mayo players, or are you still on a warning for that ?

I might be on warning but I stand by what I said about a player who dived and rolled around holding his face, when pushed in his chest, trying to get another player sent off.

Are you condoning that behaviour?

Fr Tod Umptious

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I might be on warning but I stand by what I said about a player who dived and rolled around holding his face, when pushed in his chest, trying to get another player sent off.

Are you condoning that behaviour?

Gamesmanship is part and parcel of the modern game.

No one team is more guilty or more innocent than another.

Your own Aiden O Mahoney's actions a number of years back are famous at this stage.

So I'd put the stones down now seeing as you have just walked into the green house.

Not the thread for such a debate anyway

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ah yes the old revisionist history.

Kerry were 1/2 in both games to beat Mayo, the only team who could challenge Dublin etc etc

And 30 something year old Andy Moran scores 2-7 against them.

Suddenly they have a catastrophic full back line and Paul Geaney who scored more from placed balls than play, and a flukey goal v Cork is a more worthy nomination.

Surprised you did not call Moran a "rat" like you did other Mayo players, or are you still on a warning for that ?

TOD you have to remember who you are responding to. He would give it to Wayne Rooney before he would consider a Mayo player worthy.:rolleyes:

Poor_old_gill

Deleted User wrote: »

TOD you have to remember who you are responding to. He would give it to Wayne Rooney before he would consider a Mayo player worthy.:rolleyes:

Well thats just childish- I rate a lot of the Mayo players very highly.
I think Parsons, Boyle & Keegan are more deserving than Andy.

Poor_old_gill

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Gamesmanship is part and parcel of the modern game.

No one team is more guilty or more innocent than another.

Your own Aiden O Mahoney's actions a number of years back are famous at this stage.

So I'd put the stones down now seeing as you have just walked into the green house.

Not the thread for such a debate anyway

So you dont condone it- good man, glad to hear it

Poor_old_gill

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Well thats just childish- I rate a lot of the Mayo players very highly.
I think Parsons, Boyle & Keegan are more deserving than Andy.

Cluxton had one hard game all year, in that he lost nearly all the kickouts in the first half and conceded a goal in the 2nd.

There were not many outstanding players in 2017, but Cluxton certainly should not be on the list.

seligehgit

corny wrote: »

seligehgit wrote: »

No way is that true but Kev Mc was very good. Also, i'd argue it wasn't the Dublin bench at all that swung the game. Connolly and Kev Mc came on at HT but they hardly had a huge fitness advantage when they were changing the game early in the second half. They changed the game because they're brilliant players not out of the freshness of their legs. Other than that the other subs did nothing. In truth it was the Dublin starters who took the game to Mayo in the last 10 minutes to close it out, as they always do. Players like McCarthy, COS, Cooper, were still running hard while AOS, Higgins, etc had come to a standstill. Mayo are special, Dublin moreso in every aspect.

I never stayed they weren't very good players.McManamon pace and directness at the start of the second half gave Dublin a much needed impetus when they needed it and the Dublin substitutes contributed to the scoreboard unlike their Mayo counterparts so they did contribute significantly to the win.

We were relying on the same core of 15 players and outside of Diarmuid O Connor none of our substitutes made a significant contribution.Zippy out in his feet with cramp and could be forgiven same having played nine games outside his sending off.Quite a long season,O Shea has never had the legs for eighty odd minutes.I would consider there's little difference in the conditioning/fitness of the two teams but a chasm in terms of the bench.So we'll have to agree to disagree on the influence of your bench in terms of the contest in it's totality.Immense IMO.

Gael85

Deleted User wrote: »

Cluxton had one hard game all year, in that he lost nearly all the kickouts in the first half and conceded a goal in the 2nd.

There were not many outstanding players in 2017, but Cluxton certainly should not be on the list.

Don't think will get POTY but should get All Star. 9 clean sheets in 14 games and only conceded 6 goals. Jack McCaffrey going off disrupted us around the middle as Flynn went midfield, McCarthy to wing back. Our lads didn't get on the brakes at all in first half. AOS had a free reign around the middle as O'Sullivan held his position at centre back. No complaints from me if Andy Moran gets the award 3-24 from play in 10 games is good going. McCarthy had a great season scoring 1-3 in 6 games. Cleaned out Sean Cavanagh in semi final and stepped up in second sunday with 2 monster points

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Cluxton had one hard game all year, in that he lost nearly all the kickouts in the first half and conceded a goal in the 2nd.

There were not many outstanding players in 2017, but Cluxton certainly should not be on the list.

He was 19/25 on his kickouts in his "one hard game all year". Look at Moran - shone in the first 22 minutes against Dublin but didn't score after that and was off the pitch for the crunch yet he is probably going to win it.

Cluxton's first kickout of the Tyrone game had people out of their seats applauding at the audacity and execution. His general goalkeeping was excellent. He captained a team to a three-in-a-row. He was composed at the end of the Mayo game, helping out the 13-man Dublin to play keep-ball. Compare that to his opposite number whose brainfreeze led to him kicking the ball out over the touchline.

I really don't get the Cluxton-hate on here. He is quite possibly the best Gaelic footballer ever, revolutionised the game, caused playing laws to be changed and is the only player to captain a team to four All-Irelands.

bucketybuck

blanch152 wrote: »

Cluxton's first kickout of the Tyrone game had people out of their seats applauding at the audacity and execution. His general goalkeeping was excellent. He captained a team to a three-in-a-row. He was composed at the end of the Mayo game, helping out the 13-man Dublin to play keep-ball.

So, you think he should be the footballer of the year because of one long kick out, for being the Dublin captain, for being composed in the final and for just vaguely being excellent?

Its not hate for Cluxton to point out that that is pretty weak reasoning.

BandMember

blanch152 wrote: »

I really don't get the Cluxton-hate on here. He is quite possibly the best Gaelic footballer ever, revolutionised the game, caused playing laws to be changed and is the only player to captain a team to four All-Irelands.

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

blanch152

bucketybuck wrote: »

So, you think he should be the footballer of the year because of one long kick out, for being the Dublin captain, for being composed in the final and for just vaguely being excellent?

Its not hate for Cluxton to point out that that is pretty weak reasoning.

Penalty save against Tyrone, 6 goals conceded in 14 league and championship games etc. plenty of reasons.

Gael85

blanch152 wrote: »

Penalty save against Tyrone, 6 goals conceded in 14 league and championship games etc. plenty of reasons.

His shotstopping was good throughout the season

blanch152

Gael85 wrote: »

His shotstopping was good throughout the season

Look when you have Andy Moran put forward as a candidate, a player who failed to contribute after the 22nd minute of the final, who missed a chance to put Mayo ahead after 58 minutes, and who was substituted for the crunch final ten minutes, then you have to consider someone with the consistent excellence of Cluxton to be a better candidate. However, as I have said already, the decision won't hinder on who is best and Moran is likely to get it.

bucketybuck

blanch152 wrote: »

Look when you have Andy Moran put forward as a candidate, a player who failed to contribute after the 22nd minute of the final, who missed a chance to put Mayo ahead after 58 minutes, and who was substituted for the crunch final ten minutes, then you have to consider someone with the consistent excellence of Cluxton to be a better candidate. However, as I have said already, the decision won't hinder on who is best and Moran is likely to get it.

Why Cluxton though? Why not McCarthy, Mannion, O'Callaghan, or Fenton? Why not Cooper, McMahon or Fitzsimons, guys who were excellent all year?

I mean, this award is supposed to be for the very best footballer of the entire 2017 season and you are saying it was Cluxton. Don't bitch to me about Moran, make a case for Cluxton, because so far I have seen no good reason whatsoever to believe he deserves to be called the best footballer of 2017.

blanch152

BandMember wrote: »

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

Don't just take my word for it, read and enjoy:

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/stephen-cluxton-greatest-dublin-130642

http://www.the42.ie/stephen-cluxton-dublin-football-3500861-Jul2017/

http://www.dublinlive.ie/sport/gaa/gaelic-football/nigel-mccarthy-stephen-cluxton-greatest-13433014

"Tomorrow is a special day, a record day for the greatest player the game has ever seen, the likes of whom will probably never be seen again"

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2016/0914/816574-cluxton-evolution/

https://www.balls.ie/gaa/tomas-o-se-stephen-cluxton-370611

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kick-outs-clean-sheets-longevity-and-shotstopping-how-stephen-cluxton-changed-the-face-of-the-game-35933255.html

"The debate over whether he is the most influential player of the modern era can perhaps best be framed by the introduction and planned introduction of playing rule changes and match protocols to counter what he does."

blanch152

bucketybuck wrote: »

Why Cluxton though? Why not McCarthy, Mannion, O'Callaghan, or Fenton? Why not Cooper, McMahon or Fitzsimons, guys who were excellent all year?

I mean, this award is supposed to be for the very best footballer of the entire 2017 season and you are saying it was Cluxton. Don't bitch to me about Moran, make a case for Cluxton, because so far I have seen no good reason whatsoever to believe he deserves to be called the best footballer of 2017.

I have said already that McCarthy, Mannion and O'Callaghan are worthy candidates too, the sustained excellence of a large number of Dublin players is one of the reasons why the vote will split and allow Moran to take it.

Justin10

When a team loses twice in the championship and does feck all in the league, struggle against Derry, Roscommon and Clare I don't think it has much merit in footballer of the year, especially during the Galway, Derry, Clare and Roscommon games when they struggled Andy Moran averaged 2 points.

Suppose stranger things have happened, yet again Aidan O'Shea is being spouted around the place as getting another sympathetic all star.

ThunbergsAreGo

Rochey18 wrote: »

When a team loses twice in the championship and does feck all in the league, struggle against Derry, Roscommon and Clare I don't think it has much merit in footballer of the year, especially during the Galway, Derry, Clare and Roscommon games when they struggled Andy Moran averaged 2 points.

Suppose stranger things have happened, yet again Aidan O'Shea is being spouted around the place as getting another sympathetic all star.

Don't agree with the entirety of the post but it does seem a bit over the top people see Moran as a shoe in (wouldn't argue with him winning) .

Mayo (and Moran) played three teams that will be in Division 1 next year, drew once, won once and lost twice

kilns

Crash Bang Wall wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

I dont why I am debating with you but a case has been made for Mannion and O'Callaghan so broaden your mind a little and accept arguments for and against, nobody is debating that Andy Moran had a great year but people are suggesting others had great years too but you refuse to accept it.
Good luck to you

To be fair, had Dublin been missing any of their starting 15, they would have got to the All Ireland Final and quite possibly won it.

Had Mayo been missing Andy Moran, they wouldnt have got anywhere near an All Ireland Final.

Thats why Andy Moran should get Player of the Year

Thats the point I was making, he was so important to them, they were nothing without him this year but Dublin players too played to a similar high level but it doesnt get as much attention as most of the Dublin players all play to this high level

corny

seligehgit wrote: »

I never stayed they weren't very good players.McManamon pace and directness at the start of the second half gave Dublin a much needed impetus when they needed it and the Dublin substitutes contributed to the scoreboard unlike their Mayo counterparts so they did contribute significantly to the win.

We were relying on the same core of 15 players and outside of Diarmuid O Connor none of our substitutes made a significant contribution.Zippy out in his feet with cramp and could be forgiven same having played nine games outside his sending off.Quite a long season,O Shea has never had the legs for eighty odd minutes.I would consider there's little difference in the conditioning/fitness of the two teams but a chasm in terms of the bench.So we'll have to agree to disagree on the influence of your bench in terms of the contest in it's totality.Immense IMO.

Its far too simplistic to say Kev Mc and Connolly (the only two subs on long enough to have any impact) changed the game though. Mannion and COC ran their markers ragged showing for the ball. Mannions first score set the tone. McCarthy started running forward, the defensive pressure was upped, kickouts were sorted, etc. The reality is Dublin upped their performance all over the park and were the better team because of it. Wouldn't be the first time they've done that to Mayo.