2018 Leaf

ELM327 · 12-09-2017 11:06AM

I reset my trip computer there at the start of the week (normally I just reset trip A but this time I reset the whole trip) and I'm at 22kWh/100km.
Lead foot + motorway driving + work charging really helps drive that up.

I was at approx 14-15 when I didnt have work charging and had to do 115-120km round trip in one go.

12-09-2017 05:48PM

My average for 2016 was 18.5 if I remember correctly and that's driving very hard on the motorway, most of my driving is on the motorway 120-135 Kph clock speed. But obviously this includes non motorway driving.

n97 mini · 13-09-2017 10:43AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

I haven't a clue what Kwh per 100km I get. My car is in miles and I great 3.4 miles per Kwh. And that's after I calmed down the acceleration a bit. I don't think I'll bother anymore though. When I was launching it everywhere I was getting 3.3

3.4 miles is 5.74km.

5.74 into 100 = 17.42 kw/h per 100km

peposhi · 13-09-2017 02:38PM

Am I correct t say that if your average consumption is 17.5kwh/100km you are not going to get more than 230km with a 40kwh Leaf ??

ELM327 · 13-09-2017 02:39PM

peposhi wrote: »

Am I correct t say that if your average consumption is 17.5kwh/100km you are not going to get more than 230km with a 40kwh Leaf ??

Yes.
But that depends on your consumption in leaf2

KCross · 13-09-2017 02:45PM

peposhi wrote: »

Am I correct t say that if your average consumption is 17.5kwh/100km you are not going to get more than 230km with a 40kwh Leaf ??

I wouldn't think thats correct.

Presumably if you put Leaf I and Leaf II side by side and drive the same way, Leaf II will use less energy as it will be more efficient (aerodynamics, motors, gearing etc).

The other thing is we don't know yet if Leaf II is 40kWh usable or total and no one has driven it so we don't know the efficiency figures.

oppenheimer1 · 14-09-2017 11:53AM

cros13 wrote: »

LG Chem are the only source for the batteries.

Hyundai placed their order with LG Chem two years ago and even without being on sale in all the target markets, and after closing some markets to new orders, Ioniq EV orders so far in 2017 have exceeded the total year estimates by more than 2.5X

With orders on the books from 28 carmakers LG Chem has no spare production capacity, they are increasing the size of the Cheongju plant by 50% and Hyundai group has bought most of the new production but the new lines are a year or so away from operation.

LG Group has been reluctant to give LG Chem capital or allow it to borrow for expansion without firm orders from customers for the new production. The majority of the customer base has been, frankly, under the delusion that if they need to ramp production they can buy batteries on the open market... and reluctant to sign on the dotted line when financial guarantees were required.

Hyundai Group's Enercell division only has battery manufacturing experience of small scale lead acid and NiMH, has no tooling or production facility suitable for lithium ion production and would need to negotiate licensing of LG Chem's chemistries and production methods

No batteries = no Ioniqs

The only point on that list we can be certain of is the last one. The other points are commercially sensitive and unless you are on the board of directors of LG or Hyundai you cannot make reliable pronouncements on supply or financing of these companies.

Soarer · 14-09-2017 12:10PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The only point on that list we can be certain of is the last one. The other points are commercially sensitive and unless you are on the board of directors of LG or Hyundai you cannot make reliable pronouncements on supply or financing of these companies.

You obviously don't know the contacts that cros has.

oppenheimer1 · 14-09-2017 12:13PM

Soarer wrote: »

You obviously don't know the contacts that cros has.

I don't. But I do know that boards.ie is not the place for releasing commercially sensitive information.

grogi · 14-09-2017 12:22PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I don't. But I do know that boards.ie is not the place for releasing commercially sensitive information.

If @cros13 knows, it has been already released.

cros13 · 14-09-2017 01:26PM

oppenheimer1 wrote:

The only point on that list we can be certain of is the last one. The other points are commercially sensitive and unless you are on the board of directors of LG or Hyundai you cannot make reliable pronouncements on supply or financing of these companies.

The industry I work in has some crossover, LG Chem and other firms involved are suppliers I'd deal with on a fairly frequent basis. I also talk to people working for the carmakers on the technical side of the house.

oppenheimer1 wrote:

I don't. But I do know that boards.ie is not the place for releasing commercially sensitive information.

I don't post anything on boards that I'm under NDA about. Most of what I post is generally supported by public info like industry press, press releases, patent filings or public financial documents.
Although I have had one rap on the knuckles from a carmaker for posting something on here that wasn't supposed to be public quite yet.
And sometimes I'll make an educated guess.

oppenheimer1 · 14-09-2017 03:12PM

cros13 wrote: »

The industry I work in has some crossover, LG Chem and other firms involved are suppliers I'd deal with on a fairly frequent basis. I also talk to people working for the carmakers on the technical side of the house.

I don't post anything on boards that I'm under NDA about. Most of what I post is generally supported by public info like industry press, press releases, patent filings or public financial documents.
Although I have had one rap on the knuckles from a carmaker for posting something on here that wasn't supposed to be public quite yet.
And sometimes I'll make an educated guess.

The size of the order book, and the reluctance of the LG parent to give the subsidiary capital or take out loans are also highly unlikely to appear in public documents. This is internal LG company gossip at best.

If I made an unsubstantiated claim like that, the first post after would be "source".

Soarer · 14-09-2017 04:33PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The size of the order book, and the reluctance of the LG parent to give the subsidiary capital or take out loans are also highly unlikely to appear in public documents. This is internal LG company gossip at best.

If I made an unsubstantiated claim like that, the first post after would be "source".

Again, this is another thread that you're only causing argument in.

Maybe if you've an issue with "fake news", you could take it up with cros13 privately? Or start your own thread on the matter?

Either way, it's got nothing to do with the 2018 Leaf.

oppenheimer1 · 14-09-2017 04:49PM

Soarer wrote: »

Again, this is another thread that you're only causing argument in.

Maybe if you've an issue with "fake news", you could take it up with cros13 privately? Or start your own thread on the matter?

Either way, it's got nothing to do with the 2018 Leaf.

It has got everything to do with the leaf, if you refer to my original point: which was the leaf 2 was underwhelming when you compare it to the Ioniq. Cros then went off and made large unsubstantiated claims that Hyundai would not be able to expand Ioniq production for various reasons. eg LG parent not allowed LG Chem to borrow for expansion or give it extra capital..
My point was that Hyundai are in the business of selling product and i have no doubt they are working on ways to expand production. And they will surely have worked it out by the time ioniq 2 is released.

grogi · 14-09-2017 04:59PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

And they will surely have worked it out by the time ioniq 2 is released.

Which is around 6 years from now.

oppenheimer1 · 14-09-2017 05:03PM

grogi wrote: »

Which is around 6 years from now.

I'd expect a refresh late '18 early '19 tbh

Soarer · 14-09-2017 05:06PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

i have no doubt they are working on ways to expand production. And they will surely have worked it out by the time ioniq 2 is released.

Unsubstantiated claims.

Very easy to play your game.

grogi · 14-09-2017 05:10PM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'd expect a refresh late '18 early '19 tbh

Did you know that boards.ie is not the place for releasing commercially sensitive information?!

oppenheimer1 · 14-09-2017 05:16PM

grogi wrote: »

Did you know that boards.ie is not the place for releasing commercially sensitive information?!

I'm clearly speculating. I'm not presenting unsubstantiated claims as fact.

Soarer wrote: »

Unsubstantiated claims.

Very easy to play your game.

I've yet to come across a company that is attempting to build market share in an emerging market that has artificially restricted sales volume and has made it a success.

The whole point of the leaf and Ioniq was to get first mover advantage

BoatMad · 15-09-2017 11:54AM

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'd expect a refresh late '18 early '19 tbh

yes I think , by Leaf - Eplus ( i.e. 60 kwh ) Ioniq will have to up its game , but the LG supply issue isnt going to be solved anytime soon

who_ru · 17-09-2017 12:08PM

Interesting chat on the new Leaf...it's an American perspective but a lot of it is relevant if you're thinking of buying the new Leaf.

https://youtu.be/iThwEfIBwIE

unkel · 17-09-2017 09:37PM

Wait, the new Leaf still is only 3kW standard charging? :eek:

The V2G capability is new to me. What hardware is needed in your house for this?

17-09-2017 09:39PM

That's in Japan I believe, rumour to be 7 odd Kw in U.S / E.U.

who_ru · 17-09-2017 09:58PM

unkel wrote: »

Wait, the new Leaf still is only 3kW standard charging? :eek:

The V2G capability is new to me. What hardware is needed in your house for this?

Having watched that video I'm beginning to think it might be a better bet to wait for the upgraded Ioniq.

17-09-2017 10:00PM

I didn't watch the video , I'll get a test drive and judge for myself , I don't need anyone else to make my mind up.

unkel · 17-09-2017 10:06PM

who_ru wrote: »

Having watched that video I'm beginning to think it might be a better bet to wait for the upgraded Ioniq.

Why? What in the video put you off? Personally I find the V2G a very interesting feature

Bigus · 17-09-2017 11:02PM

Here's an interesting take on the "updated leaf"

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/16/nissan-trick-sleeve-new-leaf/

"Nissan’s trick up its sleeve can be explained like this:

“The best selling car in each segment is not the best car, but the best value for the money.”

I think it is undisputed that the best EV for the city is the BMW i3 and the best long-journey EV is the Tesla Model S, yet they are both being outsold by the Renault Zoe (in Europe, where the Zoe is available). A more humble offer, but with a much more reasonable price, the Zoe is Europe’s top selling electric car.

And between the i3 and Model S extremes, and with the ability to go in and out of the city for the occasional long trip, we have several players — Hyundai Ioniq, VW e-Golf, Chevrolet Bolt … and the 2018 Nissan LEAF. These models are all basically going for the same customers. But…
After the first LEAF sales peak (first 4 to 6 months of 2018), Nissan will start to play its cards. Because the new car is based on an old platform, Nissan will have plenty of space to make discounts, undercutting the competition even further, maybe going into the mid-$20,000 arena. And this could last until…

Late 2018, when the new long-range version shows up (can LG Chem, the new supplier, cram 60 kWh into the old platform?). That can add the “wow” factor that the 40 kWh version misses, as the larger battery will allow Bolt/Tesla range levels (225–245 miles EPA). Additionally, the TMS that comes with LG technology will not only increase consumer confidence, but finally open the door to those much anticipated 150 kW fast chargers.

Now, imagine in December 2018 a 60 kWh LEAF with 230 miles of range and 150 kW-rated charging capability for … (drums rolling) … $36,000!

Tasty, isn’t it?

unkel · 17-09-2017 11:42PM

Bigus wrote: »

“The best selling car in each segment is not the best car, but the best value for the money.”

Almost true. The best selling car is not necessarily the best value for money.

Bigus wrote: »

they are both being outsold by the Renault Zoe (in Europe, where the Zoe is available). A more humble offer, but with a much more reasonable price,

I really like the Zoe, but over here it's poor value for money at a ridiculous €28k or so for a very basic supermini. The Leaf and the Ioniq are the only EVs that are good value for money imho.

grogi · 18-09-2017 08:38AM

Bigus wrote: »

Here's an interesting take on the "updated leaf"

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/16/nissan-trick-sleeve-new-leaf/

"Nissan’s trick up its sleeve can be explained like this:

“The best selling car in each segment is not the best car, but the best value for the money.”

I think it is undisputed that the best EV for the city is the BMW i3 and the best long-journey EV is the Tesla Model S, yet they are both being outsold by the Renault Zoe (in Europe, where the Zoe is available). A more humble offer, but with a much more reasonable price, the Zoe is Europe’s top selling electric car.

And between the i3 and Model S extremes, and with the ability to go in and out of the city for the occasional long trip, we have several players — Hyundai Ioniq, VW e-Golf, Chevrolet Bolt … and the 2018 Nissan LEAF. These models are all basically going for the same customers. But…
After the first LEAF sales peak (first 4 to 6 months of 2018), Nissan will start to play its cards. Because the new car is based on an old platform, Nissan will have plenty of space to make discounts, undercutting the competition even further, maybe going into the mid-$20,000 arena. And this could last until…

Late 2018, when the new long-range version shows up (can LG Chem, the new supplier, cram 60 kWh into the old platform?). That can add the “wow” factor that the 40 kWh version misses, as the larger battery will allow Bolt/Tesla range levels (225–245 miles EPA). Additionally, the TMS that comes with LG technology will not only increase consumer confidence, but finally open the door to those much anticipated 150 kW fast chargers.

That all makes sense

Now, imagine in December 2018 a 60 kWh LEAF with 230 miles of range and 150 kW-rated charging capability for … (drums rolling) … $36,000!

Tasty, isn’t it?

Not at all.

In December 2018, a 60 kWh Leaf (around 400 km of EPA range) needs to cost €29 990 to be really competitive.

15 months from now Model3 will be delivered at regular basis... It offers far better performance, RWD for enhanced driving dynamics and much more cool aura around... All that with 350 km of range for $35000. Despite slightly bigger range Leaf will need to undercut its price.

Leaf advantages are availability and slightly lower price. When availability stops being an advantage, it will need to be even more cheaper.

18-09-2017 12:36PM

Don't be expecting a 60 Kwh Leaf in December 2018.

I was contemplating waiting but I'm not going to, I'll get the updated Leaf when it's available and might trade again whenever the 60 Kwh comes out with more power.

2018 Leaf

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