2018 Leaf

grogi

Soarer wrote: »

Thinking out loud.

If the new Leaf's motor and battery are the same form factor as the old ones, and the new Leaf is coming in at the same price point as the current one, does it stand to reason that we'll be able to get the new 40kWh battery swapped into the current Leaf at the current price point of €5k?

Don't think so. The motor might be 'the same', but loads of tiny changes implemented. The battery controller is different, different charging connection etc... All is doable, but I don't think it would be PnP, like swaps within same generation.

2.0 tdi does not easily swap for 2.0 tdi either...

Water John

I think Nikki Gordon in the video indicated that she thought the motor looked smaller. I could be wrong and she could be wrong.

DrPhilG

Water John wrote: »

Ah PhilG, why would you bother? We all know these, what in reality are, theorethical tests are nonsense.

I know that and Nissan know that. So it annoys me that they're deliberately misleading the public.

DrPhilG

grogi wrote: »

Who cares? It's mostly the range and time to charge, not battery capacity in kWh, that matter.

I was just answering a question.

cros13

Water John wrote: »

I think Nikki Gordon in the video indicated that she thought the motor looked smaller. I could be wrong and she could be wrong.

*cough* dear nikki is confusing the motor with the cover on the charger in that case. The cover on the charger has been made smaller, flatter and black.

The motor is the same as the motor in the current leaf... just a minor revision being fed more power.

DrPhilG

Orebro wrote: »

Aren't mpg figures from ICE cars mostly fairy land figures too?

A bit but not as skewed as these range figures.

And I think range on an EV especially at this stage of development is a far higher concern than mpg in an ICE.

So many people claim that 200 miles is the tipping point for moving to EVs, and Nissan are proudly boasting that they have hit that mark.

n97 mini

Soarer wrote: »

Thinking out loud.

If the new Leaf's motor and battery are the same form factor as the old ones, and the new Leaf is coming in at the same price point as the current one, does it stand to reason that we'll be able to get the new 40kWh battery swapped into the current Leaf at the current price point of €5k?

Nissan already haven't offered the 30kw/h battery as an option for existing owners, so no reason to believe they'll offer the 40kw/h.

I'd say they're only keeping the same form factor for warranty replacements. i.e. when they run out of inventory of 24kw/h batteries they'll start fitting newer batteries to older cars. *But* they won't offer them for sale. More money in it for them to sell you a whole new car than a new battery.

On the flip side, Renault do the opposite, for now anyway. It will be interesting to see which approach proves a better move, the Nissan "screw you" approach or the Renault "here, have a bigger battery" approach.

k123456

cros13 wrote: »

So... Propilot got priced in the US as a $650 option. Selected by default on the SL (SVE equivalent).

US configurator is up:

https://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/2018-leaf/configure/

as is the Irish site: https://www.nissan.ie/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf-2017.html

In other news... new app:

I wonder Will the new app work with existing Leafs 2011 to 2017, current app is v slow

One thing I noticed from the new app is that it doesn't appear that you can set a charging timer as is the case now , only "start charging" option ?

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

North of £3k in some parts. Which is probably equivalent to at least €5k these days, at least!



For me it would not be idle most of the time.
I charge a lot at home (4k EV km per month on average), and when we move to a dual EV home it will be closer to 5k km.

My house (and any house I am aware of with standard connection) (see previous post) cannot charge 2 ev at 6.6kW.

The solution is a dual capable load sensing evse. The cars can't do this as the evse specification is one way evse advertises to car.

The other issue is that certain cars don't like the advertised current changing as they only sample it at the charge start time.

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

A bit but not as skewed as these range figures.

And I think range on an EV especially at this stage of development is a far higher concern than mpg in an ICE.

So many people claim that 200 miles is the tipping point for moving to EVs, and Nissan are proudly boasting that they have hit that mark.

They are, aren't they. Under what conditions I wonder would they do 250km? I want to be able to take a four hour journey without stops, without driving like a Grandper, with the radio and maybe heat on. Is this what they will now do?

I wager their 250kms is at 80kph, in silence, with the wind at your back, no passengers and at 76 degrees

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

They are, aren't they. Under what conditions I wonder would they do 250km? I want to be able to take a four hour journey without stops, without driving like a Grandper, with the radio and maybe heat on. Is this what they will now do?

I wager their 250kms is at 80kph, in silence, with the wind at your back, no passengers and at 76 degrees

The battery would be well cooked then! :eek::P

I don't think the new leaf would be able to do 250km from a 40kWh pack unless you flintstoned the last 50.

It's NEDC rated at 378 km so surely should be able to do close to 250 km in real life. Pretty much like the current 30 kWh car's 250 km NEDC vs. 180 km real life. Real life in Leaf is btw. "up to" 110 km/h.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

at 76 degrees

Jesus... that's 5 degrees hotter than I sous-vide a well done steak at.

ELM327 wrote: »

The battery would be well cooked then! :eek::P

I don't think the new leaf would be able to do 250km from a 40kWh pack unless you flintstoned the last 50.

The usable proportion of the pack increased more than that would suggest + aerodynamics are slightly better (but somewhat offset by increased frontal area). I'd see 240-250 as reasonable.

Heck... my dad will definitely get 250, this was his 30kWh when I jumped in it last week (after he took it to Dublin on the motorway the day before):

macnab

The range obviously depends on useable battery and driving style. I average 15.2kw per 100km in my 30kw Leaf which gives me 184km for 28kw useable battery. So I am expecting at least 263km from 40kw useable battery. Given that the new leaf will have better aerodynamics and better efficiency due to the one pedal driving I am expecting to see 300km on warm dry days.

grogi

macnab wrote: »

The range obviously depends on useable battery and driving style. I average 15.2kw per 100km in my 30kw Leaf which gives me 184km for 28kw useable battery. So I am expecting at least 263km from 40kw useable battery. Given that the new leaf will have better aerodynamics and better efficiency due to the one pedal driving I am expecting to see 300km on warm dry days.

Introduction of one pedal driving, without any other improvements, would marginally REDUCE efficiency.

One pedal driving won't help to improve efficiency.

Aerodynamics and drive train efficiency will matter far more.

Soarer

Just checked there, and since I got the car in April, I've averaged around 12kW per 100km.

So basic maths tells me that I should be able to eek 200kms out of the current 30kWh, and well over 300kms in the new Leaf.

Nice.

12 Kwh/100 Km in a leaf ? that's some boring driving lol.

12 Kwh/100 Kms would give you 333 Kms with 40 Kwh usable.

cros13

Deleted User wrote: »

One pedal driving won't help to improve efficiency.

You'd be very surprised how much it can improve efficiency in city stop & go traffic.

grogi

cros13 wrote: »

You'd be very surprised how much it can improve efficiency in city stop & go traffic.

Absolutely nothing.

cros13

grogi wrote: »

Absolutely nothing.

I'm speaking from experience here. The i3 tracks trip regen in the driving stats. Even with ~40% efficiency regen can have a massive a effect.
In a day of driving across Dublin I've sometimes recovered up to 4kWh.
More than enough to have a very noticeable effect on range.

There is a big difference between the weak regen of the Leaf and the one pedal driving on the i3 and it allows recuperation of energy in many many more situations.

unkel

grogi wrote:

Absolutely nothing.

You're presuming that the brake pedal uses regen braking only instead of friction braking. This is not always true and varies quite a bit between EVs

DrPhilG

I haven't a clue what Kwh per 100km I get. My car is in miles and I great 3.4 miles per Kwh. And that's after I calmed down the acceleration a bit. I don't think I'll bother anymore though. When I was launching it everywhere I was getting 3.3

The only way the new leaf regen will be more efficient is if it supports more than 30 Kw regen, where in the current model more braking power requires some use of the friction brakes.

However, most of the time even 30 kw is sufficient so it's nothing to do with the one pedal function.

Soarer

Deleted User wrote: »

12 Kwh/100 Km in a leaf ? that's some boring driving lol.

Shur what rush am I in? :cool:

grogi

unkel wrote: »

You're presuming that the brake pedal uses regen braking only instead of friction braking. This is not always true and varies quite a bit between EVs

Yes, I am. It is an utter stupidity and complete waste of sparse resource to do it otherwise. Anyone who implemented it differently should be fired. In the era when each EV is compared by one universal metric - range - limiting it that way is completely unacceptable.

As long as the regen can meet the requirements for slowing the car down (typically limited by how fast the battery can charge; @Mad_Lad mentioned 30 kW in Leaf, I've seen 60 kW in a Tesla [and that depends on the temperature of the battery too]), it will be used. Friction are engaged only when that is not enough or at very low speeds, when regen is not precise enough but also virtually no energy left to recapture. That also allows to clean the brake disks and pads from any rust and residues on regular basis, without any noticeable energy loses.

In an i3 a slightly different strategy might get engaged in 'Sport' mode (or whatever it would be called), to give more traditional 'sports-car' feel. But in that case the efficiency is really a third or forth after-though.

Soarer

Soarer wrote: »

Shur what rush am I in? :cool:

Obviously none !

BoatMad

12kwh per 100km in a leaf, wow, it must never get above 40 km !

after 73,000km I'm at 14.3