2018 Leaf

ted1 · 21-07-2017 12:51AM

Nissan are beginning to release details.

You just need one pedal to drive. Basically you have a pedal is go, as you let it up it breaks ,

http://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/19/nissan-leaf-e-pedal-video-teaser/

Atlantic Dawn · 21-07-2017 01:04AM

ted1 wrote: »

Nissan are beginning to release details.

You just need one pedal to drive. Basically you have a pedal is go, as you let it up it breaks ,

http://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/19/nissan-leaf-e-pedal-video-teaser/

Seems an odd setup to mentally get your head around it coming from other cars and even bikes you always engage rather than release to brake. Forcing your foot back at high speed to brake wouldn't be a natural reaction to avoiding a collision.

KCross · 21-07-2017 06:33AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

Nissan are beginning to release details.

You just need one pedal to drive. Basically you have a pedal is go, as you let it up it breaks ,

http://www.autoblog.com/2017/07/19/nissan-leaf-e-pedal-video-teaser/

Seems an odd setup to mentally get your head around it coming from other cars and even bikes you always engage rather than release to brake. Forcing your foot back at high speed to brake wouldn't be a natural reaction to avoiding a collision.

That's just describing regen braking. If you need to stop in a hurry you will still hit the brake as normal.

The regen in the current Leaf isn't strong enough to allow one pedal driving. They are just increasing the power of the regen in the next Leaf.

DrPhilG · 21-07-2017 07:24AM

Sounds closer to the i3.

Regen is much stronger and will bring you to a stop unlike the Leaf.

goz83 · 21-07-2017 07:53AM

One would hope and expect that the regen level is adjustable from heavy to zero. I prefer my regen to be done when I actually hit the brake pedal. I don't enjoy the regen kicking in before this.

DrPhilG · 21-07-2017 09:14AM

I did find it odd in the BMW.

I only drove it briefly during a friend's test drive but I didn't see an option to turn it off/on like B/D in the Leaf.

grogi · 21-07-2017 11:06AM

DrPhilG wrote: »

I did find it odd in the BMW.

I only drove it briefly during a friend's test drive but I didn't see an option to turn it off/on like B/D in the Leaf.

It is designed on purpose to give a feeling of highly-revved ICE. In a RWD, a skilled driver uses the throttle to balance the car...

BoatMad · 21-07-2017 01:30PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Seems an odd setup to mentally get your head around it coming from other cars and even bikes you always engage rather than release to brake. Forcing your foot back at high speed to brake wouldn't be a natural reaction to avoiding a collision.

huh, in a emergency you will releases the throttle and apply the brake in the normal case

The one pedal system is essentially when not in a emergency mode, where you are avid having to shift your foot to the brake pedal

makes for very nice driving and less tiring in traffic

21-07-2017 05:11PM

The driver should decide what mode to use whether they think one pedal driving suits them or not. I find continuously having to have your foot in the throttle making minor adjustments is really annoying. In town it has its uses but other than that it's not effective at recovering energy because the idea is to coast on energy you've already used and not to use more of it by using regen which is Not very efficient unless you have to brake.

BoatMad · 21-07-2017 05:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The driver should decide what mode to use whether they think one pedal driving suits them or not. I find continuously having to have your foot in the throttle making minor adjustments is really annoying. In town it has its uses but other than that it's not effective at recovering energy because the idea is to coast on energy you've already used and not to use more of it by using regen which is Not very efficient unless you have to brake.

I dont agree and we have no data to back up your last contention

nissan will allow the disabling of the effect so your wish is being upheld

but the fact remains , one pedal driving is a nice feature of EVs for those that like it ( like me )

grogi · 21-07-2017 07:26PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The driver should decide what mode to use whether they think one pedal driving suits them or not. I find continuously having to have your foot in the throttle making minor adjustments is really annoying. In town it has its uses but other than that it's not effective at recovering energy because the idea is to coast on energy you've already used and not to use more of it by using regen which is Not very efficient unless you have to brake.

Combine that with the constant misinformation in the reviews about 'regenerative braking'... Whenever I watch an EV review I get an impression that the energy capture is done only when the throttle is released. Nobody mentions the same is happening when brake pedal is depressed...

grogi · 21-07-2017 07:27PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I dont agree and we have no data to back up your last contention

nissan will allow the disabling of the effect so your wish is being upheld

but the fact remains , one pedal driving is a nice feature of EVs for those that like it ( like me )

That's fine. It is however (marginally, but still) less efficient than no-braking-on-no-throttle setting.

BoatMad · 21-07-2017 07:32PM

grogi wrote: »

That's fine. It is however (marginally, but still) less efficient than no-braking-on-no-throttle setting.

link as proof

la ultima guagua · 21-07-2017 08:48PM

BoatMad wrote: »

link as proof

I would have thought that father McGuire's time in the milk float would be proof enough.

If you think a link will prove it then fair enough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics :P

BoatMad · 21-07-2017 08:53PM

la ultima guagua wrote: »

I would have thought that father McGuire's time in the milk float would be proof enough.

If you think a link will prove it then fair enough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics :P

stick to the day job

grogi · 21-07-2017 09:01PM

BoatMad wrote: »

link as proof

It is a simple mind experiment: with high automatic braking there will be a few unintentional, unneeded braking. Because the kinetic->electric->kinetic conversion does not have 100% efficiency, that energy is lost.

I think that in the Ioniq thread there was an actual test linked. The Norwegian guy I think...

BoatMad · 21-07-2017 09:07PM

grogi wrote: »

It is a simple mind experiment: with high automatic braking there will be a few unintentional, unneeded braking. Because the kinetic->electric->kinetic conversion does not have 100% efficiency, that energy is lost.

I think that in the Ioniq thread there was an actual test linked. The Norwegian guy I think...

I dont think there is a simple answer, and nothing online provides good hard convincing data

most people slow the car, because they have to, not because they have a choice , hence the decision isnt arbitrary but dictated by external events.

the issue isnt simply comparing slowing gracefully by coasting versus slowing ( ungracefully ??) by regen braking , thats not real life

grogi · 21-07-2017 09:10PM

BoatMad wrote: »

I dont think there is a simple answer, and nothing online provides good hard convincing data

most people slow the car, because they have to, not because they have a choice , hence the decision isnt arbitrary but dictated by external events.

the issue isnt simply comparing slowing gracefully by coasting versus slowing ( ungracefully ??) by regen braking , thats not real life

But if you slow down by pressing the brake you do it only if you want/have to. But if you regenerate simply by releasing the throttle too much, there will be situations when you don't want to to slow down - just made a mistake of releasing throttle too much.

The real question is how much is the difference. IMHO it is so little that should not influence the preference. But it is still there.

BoatMad · 21-07-2017 09:31PM

grogi wrote: »

But if you slow down by pressing the brake you do it only if you want/have to. But if you regenerate simply by releasing the throttle too much, there will be situations when you don't want to to slow down - just made a mistake of releasing throttle too much.

The real question is how much is the difference. IMHO it is so little that should not influence the preference. But it is still there.

hmm, certainly from driving the leaf constantly in "B" mode with highest levels of regen, I dont agree that you make mistakes. You quickly adopt a style that results in reasonably smooth acceleration and deceleration, of course I use cruise control a lot , even on small roads

the fact remains thats most declarations are as a result of external situations, curves and traffic being the overriding reasons. These are not coasting events, but a requirement to decelerate there and then

discussions about efficiencies gains in EVs are really a "here and now "discussion, ultimately and very soon now, we will have capacities that render this discussion about fractions of efficiency gains , irrelevant. the issue is which is nicer to drive, and personally one-pedal is for me a nicer drive

who_ru · 23-07-2017 11:26AM

So who on here will be tempted to buy the new Leaf if it still has poor aerodynamic performance as predicted at the start of this thread?

Water John · 23-07-2017 12:00PM

I presume people will compare range, esp at motorway speeds vis a viv, the Ioniq and price.
The aerodynamics may be the cause, but people will analyse, the effects.

grogi · 23-07-2017 02:26PM

who_ru wrote: »

So who on here will be tempted to buy the new Leaf if it still has poor aerodynamic performance as predicted at the start of this thread?

I would. I don't care about the efficiency, just range per €€

23-07-2017 03:43PM

Yep, if it has the range and especially the recharge speed then efficiency matters a lot less.

Next time around I'd like something a lot more fun, I3 springs to mind but the cost of that is pretty high but I'm willing to sacrifice some range for performance, if the Leaf has a lot more range then I'll probably consider it, but not without faster recharging speed if it still has 45 Kw then they can forget it, we know it will still be ChaDeMo but whether our triple headed chargers could give out more Kw on ChaDeMo remains to be seen. Perhaps it will be ChaDeMo II which is capable of 350 Kw.

Unfortunately electrics are progressing much slower than I expected, especially considering Nissan still don't have a dedicated Ev platform since 2009 !!!

Soarer · 23-07-2017 08:20PM

who_ru wrote: »

So who on here will be tempted to buy the new Leaf if it still has poor aerodynamic performance as predicted at the start of this thread?

Me.

I can't wait to see what they have to offer. Even slight aerodynamic advancements, coupled with more efficiently running gear and a useable 40kWh battery, should see massive strides in range.

You'd imagine Nissan aren't idiots. They've had 12 months to look at the Ioniq. If they aren't noticeably beyond it, they're dead in the water.

goz83 · 23-07-2017 08:39PM

So how do they work around brake light activation with 1 pedal driving? Do they come on at certain friction levels and/or at full pedal release? As long as there is an option, I don't mind. I like having a brake pedal, so if they took it away, it would be a deal breaker (no pun intended) for me.

ABC101 · 24-07-2017 03:01AM

Soarer wrote: »

Me.

I can't wait to see what they have to offer. Even slight aerodynamic advancements, coupled with more efficiently running gear and a useable 40kWh battery, should see massive strides in range.

You'd imagine Nissan aren't idiots. They've had 12 months to look at the Ioniq. If they aren't noticeably beyond it, they're dead in the water.

Battery technology will have to improve dramatically (IMO). Two things come against a EV, coefficient of Drag (for all cars including ICE), but also weight.

I think the Leaf 24Kwhr (21kwhr usable) battery comes in at 218kg, which is a lot of weight.

Scaling up to 500miles, would make the battery coming in at around 1 ton.

That is just too much weight to be dragging around. A modern ICE Renault Clio comes in at around 1150kg, but a Leaf is already tipping the scales at 1500Kg.

The Chevy Bolt with 60Kwhr battery is coming in at 1650Kg, battery alone is reported to be 440kg.

If in 5 years time a 60Kwhr battery is around 250Kg, then things can be said to be seriously improving. Bring on that day!

But as things stand now, increasing the range, requires a bigger battery, which means more weight, until the point is crossed where it starts to work against itself in terms of efficiency.

Maybe with other developments in graphene or nano tech better batteries will be developed, hopefully anyway!

Water John · 24-07-2017 09:51AM

Any idea of the weights in other Evs? i3, Tesla, etc.

grogi · 24-07-2017 09:58AM

Water John wrote: »

Any idea of the weights in other Evs? i3, Tesla, etc.

http://www.seai.ie/Grants/Electric_Vehicle_Grant_Scheme/I_am_a_consumer/List_of_Eligible_Vehicles/

Water John · 24-07-2017 10:03AM

It's the battery weights, specifically, I was asking. Are you saying that they are all the same density and calculate from the battery KWh?

bp_me · 24-07-2017 10:14AM

Water John wrote: »

It's the battery weights, specifically, I was asking. Are you saying that they are all the same density and calculate from the battery KWh?

Renault appear to have a 10kg difference between the 22 and 40kW cars.

Nissan have a 23kg premium for the 30kW pack over the 24kW pack.

2018 Leaf

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