2018 Leaf

isnottheword

thierry14 wrote: »

Nissan treating it like a niche market like everyone else bar Tesla, shows where priorities are

I think that's a bit harsh. They're in this to make money. Eaten bread is soon forgotten - they were the first to produce an EV for the masses.

Switching to a brand new platform is mega expensive. It's quite normal for a manufacturer to sweat their existing assets and derive maximum value out of what they've got - before moving on to that change.

At various points, one manufacturer is going to have the upper hand. As it stands today, IF I was buying brand new (not my way...but that's another story), the Iconiq is the way to go.

Tesla - an amazing story - but the full story has yet to unfold. Time will tell.

Well it's all about money and availability. If VW released a new Golf that undercut the rivals while providing more range than the other cars in its class and it was available in unlimited numbers can't see why it would be slated.

The current 36 kWh Golf imo is a good effort. What's the OTR price?
Edit: Seems to be from €35665 OTR. Adaptive cruise control as standard. Leather for example is €2177.

samih

samih wrote: »

I can't really see why they cannot use the existing bodyshell otherwise.

I got a much better idea, to make as much money as possible rebrand the current Leaf and sell it cheaper for another 5+ years. 15-18K Euros.

Make a brand new model Leaf. The leaf was in development in 2009 and they should have a brand spanking new model by now.

The pro pilot could have attracted me to the leaf but it's ridiculous that you got to have at least one hand on the wheel, no thanks Nissan.

I got to say there isn't a lot to attract me to this updated model apart from the range upgrade, if it charges at the same 45 Kw , then absolutely no way, nissan can shove it !

BoatMad

These specs are speculative through , and that site has been wrong before

Soarer

BoatMad wrote: »

These specs are speculative through , and that site has been wrong before

Exactly.

Surely Nissan must know that if they don't substantially outperform the Ioniq they're onto a loser?

Gumbo

Soarer wrote: »

Exactly.

Surely Nissan must know that if they don't substantially outperform the Ioniq they're onto a loser?

+1

If they don't beat the Ioniq, a lot of Leaf drivers will swap to an Ioniq as their next EV IMO. (Assuming Model 3's don't appear for reasonable costs)

Soarer

kceire wrote: »

+1

If they don't beat the Ioniq, a lot of Leaf drivers will swap to an Ioniq as their next EV IMO. (Assuming Model 3's don't appear for reasonable costs)

Yup, I'm one of them.

Waiting to see what the Leaf II brings. If it's awesome, I'll get one in the new year.
If it's only marginally better than the Ioniq, I'll pick up a secondhand one of them in the UK and save myself many euros.

slicedpanman

kceire wrote: »

+1
If they don't beat the Ioniq, a lot of Leaf drivers will swap to an Ioniq as their next EV IMO. (Assuming Model 3's don't appear for reasonable costs)

I'll +1 that +1
We're a 1 EV (plus 1 aging Prius) household and waiting for the right car to move to a 2 EV house... Those initial specs are not promising - would defo encourage me to wait for the longer range Ionic or the full EV Niro or the EV Kona all 3 of which look more impressive

DrPhilG

I have no brand loyalty. The Zoe is too small, the BMW and e-Golf too expensive.

I'll buy either the next Leaf or the next Ioniq and at this stage it looks like the Leaf is going to disappoint.

grogi

Soarer wrote: »

Yup, I'm one of them.

Waiting to see what the Leaf II brings. If it's awesome, I'll get one in the new year.
If it's only marginally better than the Ioniq, I'll pick up a secondhand one of them in the UK and save myself many euros.

So fast?

Gumbo

DrPhilG wrote: »

I have no brand loyalty. The Zoe is too small, the BMW and e-Golf too expensive.

I'll buy either the next Leaf or the next Ioniq and at this stage it looks like the Leaf is going to disappoint.

Similar myself, Zoe is way too small but looks great.
i3 would be fab if finances allowed.

I'm not 100% on the Ioniq, I don't like the interior or the rear end.
Probably won't be swapping my current Leaf for 2 years anyhow so should have a good choice by then.

Soarer

grogi wrote: »

So fast?

Yup.

The EV suits me down to the ground, and this was the cheapest way for me to find out.
I was away on holidays a few weeks back, and my dad had the Leaf. It suited him too...probably even better than me now he's retired.
So he told me that if I want to change in the new year, he'll give me what I paid for it, plus his old Laguna to use as scrappage if I buy new.

So I'll see how it pans out.

Evd-Burner

Soarer wrote:

The EV suits me down to the ground, and this was the cheapest way for me to find out. I was away on holidays a few weeks back, and my dad had the Leaf. It suited him too...probably even better than me now he's retired. So he told me that if I want to change in the new year, he'll give me what I paid for it, plus his old Laguna to use as scrappage if I buy new.

I find that alot of people who have used my car including my parents are now looking EV after driving mine. Mam might go for a new 40kwh Zoe as she likes the smaller size, we are waiting for the dealer to arrange a 24 hour test drive. It also depends on the deal renault are willing to give ok trade-in/scrappage. If they don't give a good deal she will wait for the lead 2.

If I were your Ma then I'd be waiting for the new (updated) Leaf.

I wonder what happened the 60 Kwh Nissan demonstrated last year ? Could we be in for a surprise ? probably the price lol, if a 40 Kwh Zoe is going for 29K then 60 Kwh is sure to go for 40 odd K ?

Soarer

But can they charge 40k when the Model 3 will be something similar?

It depends on the cost of the Model 3, it will be a way more fun car with tonnes of expensive options and much, much faster car also, that will appeal to many but I don't think it will be a practical car.

I couldn't see many people pay 40 K for any Nissan hatch to be honest, myself included. If they can get charging up to 100-150 Kw with a 40 kwh battery then I'd consider this over more Kwh. That is of course the ESB get the finger out soon, the network has hit a serious dead end.

Orebro

Dead end is right. Attached is a post from the Irish EV owners group on Facebook from today - ESB basically saying they ain't doing jack until the CER give them ownership. So we're falling further behind as time goes on.

Gumbo

Orebro wrote: »

Dead end is right. Attached is a post from the Irish EV owners group on Facebook from today - ESB basically saying they ain't doing jack until the CER give them ownership. So we're falling further behind as time goes on.

That's been known for quite some time now.
The current infrastructure is what we have to accept for the foreseeable future, saving any private installations.

ELM327

It's unfortunate but we really need a resolution to this, or we are going to have a situation where FCP are requiring queues due to an increasing EV population.

Does anyone know what the next step is? IE what has to happen. Are we waiting for a CER report?

We are arguably already at this level already in Dublin and the GDA.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

It's unfortunate but we really need a resolution to this, or we are going to have a situation where FCP are requiring queues due to an increasing EV population.

Does anyone know what the next step is? IE what has to happen. Are we waiting for a CER report?

Yes, wait until CER give their decision... expected in the next 2 weeks according to their original schedule.

I'd add, don't expect a flurry of new charge points if they do hand ownership to the ESB. All they will do is start a charging regime and maintain what is already in place. They feel there is enough FCP's for 20k EV's at present. They might install a few extra in the blackspot but not a lot is my guess.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Yes, wait until CER give their decision... expected in the next 2 weeks according to their original schedule.

I'd add, don't expect a flurry of new charge points if they do hand ownership to the ESB. All they will do is start a charging regime and maintain what is already in place. They feel there is enough FCP's for 20k EV's at present. They might install a few extra in the blackspot but not a lot is my guess.

Ok, wasn't aware it was so soon.
Esb already confirmed there would be no charging regime this calendar year in an earlier meeting with the NI EV owners group on facebook.

After that, there's no telling what ridiculous charging they will bring in. Hopefully (unlikely) the CER will see sense and not just hand over the ownership carte blanche to ESBN. Having worked a number of years with the regulated energy companies, I won't hold my breath however.

On the blackspot, I assume you mean the NW and the dearth of CCS charging? If so I'd expect that would have to be taken care of by whomever is the custodian of the network in the future considering CCS is the mandated EU standard now.

Orebro

Won't it be up to the CER on what the charging will be though? Also, other variables such as government policy on encouraging uptake of them will surely input to this. Sticking an expensive charge on them at this stage will kill what little momentum is there now.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

On the blackspot, I assume you mean the NW and the dearth of CCS charging?

Yes and double up chargers in the busier areas.

ELM327 wrote: »

If so I'd expect that would have to be taken care of by whomever is the custodian of the network in the future considering CCS is the mandated EU standard now.

Whoever owns it will either have to raise funds (via charging) to fund new chargers or else have it under regulation and funded by the electricity customers (like some of it has been to date).

Orebro wrote: »

Won't it be up to the CER on what the charging will be though? Also, other variables such as government policy on encouraging uptake of them will surely input to this. Sticking an expensive charge on them at this stage will kill what little momentum is there now.

Depends. eCars want full unregulated ownership. If CER grant them that wish they can charge what they like without any CER or government input.

Hopefully they will not grant that wish and put the infrastructure into the assets of the ESB Networks and have it regulated.

Orebro

Would be crazy to hand something like that over - reminds me of handing away Eircom just as broadband was on the cusp of becoming a vital resource to the economy - set the country back years when they did that.

ELM327

Orebro wrote: »

Would be crazy to hand something like that over - reminds me of handing away Eircom just as broadband was on the cusp of becoming a vital resource to the economy - set the country back years when they did that.

That's the point, it shouldnt be just handed over, instead it should be kept within the ESBN regulated asset base, and possibly allow different suppliers (EG energia, BGE, ESB Supply, Vayu, Airtricity/SSE etc) to charge you for using the electricty at the chargers, while the maintenance and upkeep is funded by ESBN.

There could be a pricing structure at the CP, like 20% to the ESBN and 80% to the supplier etc.

BoatMad

I think 2018 Nissan will outperform the current Ioniq, whetheran upgraded Ioniq will then leapfrog it , remains to be seen. There are price point issues that severely curtail both companies unless batteries drop in price and with the current demand , battery prices will not fall quickly

BoatMad

I have it on good authority the next leaf will have a 40 kWh battery ( whether usable or actual , can't tell )

I suspect there will be some increase in efficiency although I suspect that may be offset by weight gain

The envelope will be good upto 60 kWh , Nissan thinks that's the limit for the price point and that will only cone if battery prices fall

They also believe tesla will be hampered by production rate as this will be to their advantage

( and that Hyundai is severely limited by battery manufacturing shortfalls not having its own factory )

ELM327

BoatMad wrote: »

I think 2018 Nissan will outperform the current Ioniq, whetheran upgraded Ioniq will then leapfrog it , remains to be seen. There are price point issues that severely curtail both companies unless batteries drop in price and with the current demand , battery prices will not fall quickly

Well it should outperform it given it's a bigger battery in an newer smaller car!

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

Well it should outperform it given it's a bigger battery in an newer smaller car!

The 2018 leaf will outperform the current Ioniq that's clear. For how long remains unclear as I don't think the performance advantage will be huge , it's not Nissans style