Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

Past30Now · 22-12-2016 10:52AM

seligehgit wrote: »

What age is he?

Don't know for a fact, but believe he's around 35.

MayoAreMagic · 22-12-2016 11:53AM

Shaungoater wrote: »

2011 was amazing. I wouldn't say we were half as good then as we are now though. Gavin has brought them to another level, the personnel and the way we plan

Id consider ourselves to be in a similar place to Dublin in 11. That bit of nervous energy is there, and liable to cost you at some point in a final. We probably need that bit of luck to go our way at the right time, like it did with mcmanaman's goal for Dublin. It is like anything, once the monkey is gone off your back, you will be better afterwards.

As for how the Dublin team will be remembered in 20 years, I have a feeling that their financial advantages will have come to a head by then, with the upshot being that this current team's achievements might not be viewed as positively as people might expect, which is a shame for the group, as the team themselves are a serious outfit.

corny · 22-12-2016 01:25PM

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

There's a lack of serious competition I think which actually may prove detrimental to Dublins legacy you know.

Not Dublins fault at all, there's nobody close to them at the minute and it's up for everyone else to close the gap.

But because they're so far ahead I actually think it becomes a bit 'meh' for the outsiders. But for example, if there was another team around which could lead to a rivalry of the quality of the Kerry/Tyrone Tyrone/Armagh games of the noughties I think it would bump them up a notch.

You can only beat what's in front of you though and Dublin have done that. 4/6 speaks for itself.

I get that people need a rivalry but by the logic above if Dublin allow Mayo to win they suddenly have competition and their reputation goes up. Effectively their reputation goes up for losing because the competition gain credibility!

Does winning a lot signify a lack of competition or does it point to Dublin being the GOAT? Hard to know, even for lads who do remember the seventies. I wasn't alive so......

Godge · 22-12-2016 01:47PM

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

There's a lack of serious competition I think which actually may prove detrimental to Dublins legacy you know.

Not Dublins fault at all, there's nobody close to them at the minute and it's up for everyone else to close the gap.

But because they're so far ahead I actually think it becomes a bit 'meh' for the outsiders. But for example, if there was another team around which could lead to a rivalry of the quality of the Kerry/Tyrone Tyrone/Armagh games of the noughties I think it would bump them up a notch.

You can only beat what's in front of you though and Dublin have done that. 4/6 speaks for itself.

I disagree about the lack of serious competition.

Mayo, Donegal and Kerry are more serious competition than any other "great" team have faced over the decades. The Kerry team of 75-81, commonly regarded as the best ever, only really faced one team that could compete with it - Dublin. That team, as with others from the last century, was significantly helped by the absence of the back-door.

Slattsy · 22-12-2016 01:57PM

Godge wrote: »

I disagree about the lack of serious competition.

Mayo, Donegal and Kerry are more serious competition than any other "great" team have faced over the decades. The Kerry team of 75-81, commonly regarded as the best ever, only really faced one team that could compete with it - Dublin. That team, as with others from the last century, was significantly helped by the absence of the back-door.

+1

DoctaDee · 22-12-2016 02:49PM

Godge wrote: »

I disagree about the lack of serious competition.

Mayo, Donegal and Kerry are more serious competition than any other "great" team have faced over the decades. The Kerry team of 75-81, commonly regarded as the best ever, only really faced one team that could compete with it - Dublin. That team, as with others from the last century, was significantly helped by the absence of the back-door.

Following along the same lines - I personally think that the Kerry team of the noughties is the best I've seen, but in saying that they lost all 3 finals to Ulster teams, and really only beat 2 ordinary teams (Cork/Mayo) twice for 4 of their AI's. So it takes looking beyond the titles and competition to see the greatness of a team - Dublin are ticking all the boxes that Kerry team did

gormdubhgorm · 22-12-2016 11:34PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Genuine question for Dublin fans.

In 20 years time, how do you think your current team will be remembered?

I would say definitely the best Dublin team of all time.

Nationwide there will still be question marks by others about the team finances, competition etc.
But on the other side of the coin people will remember the way Dublin played leading up to All-Ireland finals (at the moment)

For Dublin to go down as a definite great of football they have to give a nearest rival a walloping in an All-Ireland final (with style). That will mean the doubters will have less of a gripe.

2011 - Dublin were not the better team and only won sam with a smash and grab

2013 - Dublin only won by a point when all was said and done

2015 - a hard fought win in poor weather conditions (that some said suited Dublin

)

2016 - Mayo did thier best to hand the Sam to Dublin etc.

So I would say for Dublin to go down as a definite great team they need to really perform in an all-Ireland final and win convincingly and with style.

If that is not done non-Dubs will always put question marks over this Dublin era.

corny · 23-12-2016 08:23AM

Ciaran Whelan interviewing Paul Flynn

If anyone missed it.

BonnieSituation · 25-12-2016 04:31AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I would say definitely the best Dublin team of all time.

Nationwide there will still be question marks by others about the team finances, competition etc.
But on the other side of the coin people will remember the way Dublin played leading up to All-Ireland finals (at the moment)

For Dublin to go down as a definite great of football they have to give a nearest rival a walloping in an All-Ireland final (with style). That will mean the doubters will have less of a gripe.

2011 - Dublin were not the better team and only won sam with a smash and grab

2013 - Dublin only won by a point when all was said and done

2015 - a hard fought win in poor weather conditions (that some said suited Dublin )

2016 - Mayo did thier best to hand the Sam to Dublin etc.

So I would say for Dublin to go down as a definite great team they need to really perform in an all-Ireland final and win convincingly and with style.

If that is not done non-Dubs will always put question marks over this Dublin era.

There's always going to be question marks put over any era.

If we beat teams out the gate we dint get kudos. If we barely win we don't get kudos. **** the begrudgers.

We go into games against Kerry now treating them with what little respect they deserve. I'll take it.

Also, we beat them and Donegal out the gate in recent meetings (2013 and 2016)... That'll do for me for greatness.

I don't remember anyone qualifying the Keengdums 734 All-Ireland victories on the basis that they are in a gimme of a province.

ProudDUB · 25-12-2016 12:04PM

Merry Christmas to all you big, bad, beautiful, true blue Dubs, wherever you may be. A special shout out to those exiled in foreign colonies like Dubai, London Town and Australia, or third world gulags, like Naas and Navan.

A special Happy Chrimbo to Sam. I hope he enjoyed his morning opening his prezzies over in John Costello's gaff. ( I hear Mammy Costello makes a mean egg nog to go with yer full Irish.) Top of his list, was a rock solid guarantee that he'll never have to venture further west than the Red Cow, further south than the dodgems in Bray, or further north than Skerries, for the rest of his born natural. I know you all join me in hoping he gets his wish.

Fair play to him - and all the players - for going on a tour of the kids wards in the childrens hospitals this morning. That is the real meaning of Christmas.

And to all the begrudgers....and Lee Keegan....I hope yiz choke on yer bleedin' turkey !

Bonniedog · 25-12-2016 01:01PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Genuine question for Dublin fans.

In 20 years time, how do you think your current team will be remembered?

Best Dublin team of all time beyond a shadow of a doubt, and will be counted among greatest teams of all time if they win again next year.

I was lucky enough to see the 70s teams and while they had one or two close games in Leinster and in AI semi finals, themselves and Kerry were streets ahead of everyone else, other than Cork and Dublin only played Cork once in 1974.

Modern era is way more competitive imho.

Stoner · 25-12-2016 05:44PM

gormdubhgorm wrote:

2011 - Dublin were not the better team and only won sam with a smash and grab

Don't agree with that as discussed many times. Kerry pulled the game back to level terms and couldn't then and still can't finish on their strongest team. It was the opinion that Kerry were better as they had achieved so much in the game up to that but since then the same players delivered similar "smash and grab" beatings to Kerry many times since. In the future the balanced view will look back on that day as the start of a dominance over this Kerry team, Keven McMacs first of many championship substitute goal scoring appearances.
The only difference in 2011 was that we hadn't seen it happen before.
As bullish as the above sounds there is some truth in it rehashing that old "Kerry were robbed" lark has served Dublin well. The sooner Kerry clear out players with that similar attitude like Sheehan , lads who don't know they are not good enough and think they were robbed and don't have to improve their game , the sooner they will beat Dublin.

gormdubhgorm · 26-12-2016 01:11PM

Stoner wrote: »

Don't agree with that as discussed many times. Kerry pulled the game back to level terms and couldn't then and still can't finish on their strongest team. It was the opinion that Kerry were better as they had achieved so much in the game up to that but since then the same players delivered similar "smash and grab" beatings to Kerry many times since. In the future the balanced view will look back on that day as the start of a dominance over this Kerry team, Keven McMacs first of many championship substitute goal scoring appearances.
The only difference in 2011 was that we hadn't seen it happen before.
As bullish as the above sounds there is some truth in it rehashing that old "Kerry were robbed" lark has served Dublin well. The sooner Kerry clear out players with that similar attitude like Sheehan , lads who don't know they are not good enough and think they were robbed and don't have to improve their game , the sooner they will beat Dublin.

What I remember is was the feeling that Kerry had it. Kerry were four points up with about 10 minutes left.
There was an air of resignation in the ground among Dublin fans.

I remember a Declan O'Sullivan fist pump after one Kerry score, which annoyed me.

Then bang the Kevin Mc goal changed everything.

ProudDUB · 26-12-2016 02:45PM

This notion that 2011 was a smash and grab job & that we were not fully deserving of our win, is one of the greatest media campaigns by the Kerry Media Mafia. Ever. It makes this summers Lee Keegan malarkey look like amateur hour.

They bitched and whinge and moaned, all winter long, so much so that they brain washed the whole country into believing that their brand of propaganda was the God's honest truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Let's examine the facts for a minute:

Dublin were leading at half time. Yes, that's right. Dublin, the team in blue and navy did NOT go in trailing at half time. We did NOT spend the previous 35 minutes being put in our place by the Kerry aristocrats. We went toe to toe with them, showed them zero respect and, went in at half time WITH THE LEAD !

I think that mattters in discussion about teams throwing games away.

The game was tied at the 40 minute mark.

Kerry were one point up at the 50 minute mark. Excuse me for NOT being exactly bowled away, at how Kerry stamped their authority on the game, for the preceeding 50 minutes.

Kerry then went on a 13 minute good patch, that saw their lead go up to 4 points. And fair play to them for it. They were the better team, during that part of the game.

Minutes 63 to 73: Dublin outscored Kerry 1-4 to 0-2....and the rest is history.

When Kev Mc got his goal in the 63rd minute, we were still behind and, there were still nearly 10 minutes left to play. A lot can happen in 10 minutes. We pushed on and got more big scores from Kevin Nolan, Berno and Cluxton. Other than a belter of a point from Donaghy, Kerry did sweet fcuk all in the last 10 minutes. Kerry go on a good run during a pivotal point in a game and it's Kerry being Kerry, stamping their authority on the game, putting the game to bed and what have you. We do it & it's because we got lucky, or the ref was rubbish, or whatever. Well hello there Double Standards, won't you have a seat !

In the grand scheme of things, when you remove the whole Kerry v Dublin bull$hit from everything, what it boils down to, is two very evenly matched teams. The better team and, the one with the better bench ultimately won. With three more championship wins over Kerry, history has indeed proven that the 2011 Dublin team, was better than that Kerry one.

It irriates the crap out of me, that this nonsense about the 2011 win being an undeserved, smash and grab job, has not been sufficiently challenged. It has now passed in to the history books as fact. Five years on, three more All Ireland wins, three more wins over Kerry and those involved in the 2011 AI win, STILL aren't getting the credit they deserve. That ain't right. My sore feelings don't matter a damm, but it is very unfair on the players & Pat Gilroy in particular imo.

If we trailed by substantial amounts during the entire game, or we never had the lead, AT ALL, or we drew level, or went ahead for the first time all day, in the dying minutes, then yes, 2011 could be deemed a lucky win. It was was not. We were equals for most of the day and, the better team down the stretch. End of story.

And no amount of Kerry bellyachin' in the meeja ,or plamais from lads with 9486 All Ireland medals in their back pockets, (especially from the O'Se's,) or one of them dredging it all up again, whenever they have a book to peddle, is going to change my mind on that.

Ath Cliath Abu !

Pierce_1991 · 26-12-2016 07:52PM

ProudDUB wrote: »

This notion that 2011 was a smash and grab job & that we were not fully deserving of our win, is one of the greatest media campaigns by the Kerry Media Mafia. Ever. It makes this summers Lee Keegan malarkey look like amateur hour.

They bitched and whinge and moaned, all winter long, so much so that they brain washed the whole country into believing that their brand of propaganda was the God's honest truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Let's examine the facts for a minute:

Dublin were leading at half time. Yes, that's right. Dublin, the team in blue and navy did NOT go in trailing at half time. We did NOT spend the previous 35 minutes being put in our place by the Kerry aristocrats. We went toe to toe with them, showed them zero respect and, went in at half time WITH THE LEAD !

I think that mattters in discussion about teams throwing games away.

The game was tied at the 40 minute mark.

Kerry were one point up at the 50 minute mark. Excuse me for NOT being exactly bowled away, at how Kerry stamped their authority on the game, for the preceeding 50 minutes.

Kerry then went on a 13 minute good patch, that saw their lead go up to 4 points. And fair play to them for it. They were the better team, during that part of the game.

Minutes 63 to 73: Dublin outscored Kerry 1-4 to 0-2....and the rest is history.

When Kev Mc got his goal in the 63rd minute, we were still behind and there were still nearly 10 minutes left to play. A lot can happen in 10 minutes. We pushed on and got more big scores from Kevin Nolan, Berno and Cluxton. Other than a belter of a point from Donaghy, Kerry did sweet fcuk all in the last 10 minutes. Kerry go on a good run during a pivotal point in a game and it's Kerry being Kerry, stamping their authority on the game, putting the game to bed and what have you. We do it & it's because we got lucky, or the ref was rubbish, or whatever. Well hello there Double Standards, won't you have a seat !

In the grand scheme of things, when you remove the whole Kerry v Dublin bull$hit from everything, what it boils down to is two very evenly matched teams. The better team and, the one with the better bench ultimately won. With three more championship wins over Kerry, history has indeed proven that this Dublin team was/is a better team than that Kerry one.

It irriates the crap out of me, that this nonsense about the 2011 win being an undeserved, smash and grab job, has not been sufficiently challenged and, has passed in to the history books as fact. Five years on, three more All Ireland wins, three more wins over Kerry and those involved in the 2011 AI win, STILL aren't getting the credit they deserve. That ain't right. My sore feelings don't matter a damm, but it is very unfair on the players and Pat Gilroy in particular imo.

If we trailed by substantial amounts during the entire game, or we never had the lead, AT ALL, or we drew level or went ahead for the first time all day, in the dying minutes, then yes, 2011 could be deemed a lucky win. It was was not. We were equals for most of the day and the better team down the stretch. End of story.

And no amount of Kerry bellyachin' in the meeja ,or plamais from lads with 9486 All Ireland medals in their back pockets, (especially from the O'Se's,) or one of them dredging it all up again, whenever they have a book to peddle, is going to change my mind on that.

Ath Cliath Abu !

Very well said. I would add one point as well. If you even look at the run both teams had to the final you would have to say Dublin had a much tougher run. We played Tyrone in the 1/4, undoubtedly not what they were 3 years earlier but still a team that new how to win a big championship game. Meanwhile Kerry hammered Limerick for the second time in the championship. The losing semi finalists would meet a year later in the final and Donegal came out on top. Mayo in 2011 were still a couple of years away from being at the highest standard and Kerry beat them easily. We had a real battle against a very strong Donegal team.

Just those points about the run to the final along with what you've said about the final itself I think proves that Dublin were clearly the best team in the country that year.

MayoAreMagic · 27-12-2016 11:25AM

Ah come on proudDub. Be a bit more objective. If dublin had been 4 up on mayo with 10 to go this year. Only for us to get a goal where the ball is clearly fouled to get back into it, then a very soft free to win it, you would be posting a very different version of events im sure...

Dublin got the break they needed to break their duck, and fair play to them for that. No need to be trying to re-write history.

BonnieSituation · 27-12-2016 12:01PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ah come on proudDub. Be a bit more objective. If dublin had been 4 up on mayo with 10 to go this year. Only for us to get a goal where the ball is clearly fouled to get back into it, then a very soft free to win it, you would be posting a very different version of events im sure...

Dublin got the break they needed to break their duck, and fair play to them for that. No need to be trying to re-write history.

Well what is your reading on 2011?

---

Also in 2013 we were subjected to the whole "scoreline flattered Dublin" agenda. I think us outscoring Keeerrrreeee in the last 10minutes of the game where they registered de nada might have been something to do with that. We were at least 7 points better that day. The gloss that was attempted to be taken of EOG's goal that because it was scored when it was it didn't really matter. It was still worth 3 points boys.

Bonniedog · 27-12-2016 12:30PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ah come on proudDub. Be a bit more objective. If dublin had been 4 up on mayo with 10 to go this year. Only for us to get a goal where the ball is clearly fouled to get back into it, then a very soft free to win it, you would be posting a very different version of events im sure...

Dublin got the break they needed to break their duck, and fair play to them for that. No need to be trying to re-write history.

you forgot to mention "finances" ...

MayoAreMagic · 27-12-2016 12:33PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well what is your reading on 2011?

---

Also in 2013 we were subjected to the whole "scoreline flattered Dublin" agenda. I think us outscoring Keeerrrreeee in the last 10minutes of the game where they registered de nada might have been something to do with that. We were at least 7 points better that day. The gloss that was attempted to be taken of EOG's goal that because it was scored when it was it didn't really matter. It was still worth 3 points boys.

My reading is that dublin got the break of a lifetime with k macs goal, ie a goal to close up an all ireland final and put all the pressure on the opponent for the last few minutes. Thinking about it in the cold light of day, that is roy of the rovers stuff. It lifted the weight of not having won from their shoulders and they were visibly energised at the most vital of vital times. Like you couldnt write that.
Now all credit to them, you still have to be there driving on and fighting for everything, and dublin did that in spades. But there are plenty of teams who have done that and still come up short all the same...

As for this agenda narrative you are pushing. I dont agree. There was nothing between kerry and dublin in that game. I dont get why some dubs seem so unwilling to give other teams any bit of credit. It comes across quite ungracious.

MayoAreMagic · 27-12-2016 12:37PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

you forgot to mention "finances" ...

You mean the money im investing in dublin gaa? On the contrary, im expecting at least 3 more all irelands as a return on my investment!

Bonniedog · 27-12-2016 01:03PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You mean the money im investing in dublin gaa? On the contrary, im expecting at least 3 more all irelands as a return on my investment!

Perhaps you should be investing in a mediator instead for your own chaps.

I hear Kofi Annan is at a loose end these days

MayoAreMagic · 27-12-2016 01:28PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Perhaps you should be investing in a mediator instead for your own chaps.

I hear Kofi Annan is at a loose end these days

No need. Parting shots from persons scorned should always be taken with a pinch of salt. And if in the long run the public shaming gets people to partake in some inward reflection then that can end up being quite a positive thing.

Besides, the dubs need a newer cryochamber than last years model! Cheque is in the post lads.

MayoAreMagic · 27-12-2016 01:29PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Perhaps you should be investing in a mediator instead for your own chaps.

I hear Kofi Annan is at a loose end these days

No need. Parting shots from persons scorned should always be taken with a pinch of salt. And if in the long run the public shaming gets people to partake in some inward reflection then that can end up being quite a positive thing.

Besides, the dubs need a newer cryochamber than last years model! Cheque is in the post lads.

Dyr · 27-12-2016 01:55PM

Lads, winning all these all ireland's through sheer luck and soft decisions just make them all sweeter.

I think the secret to winning lots of All Irelands is just to be lucky all the time, and never have a refs decision go against ye. That must be the reason ourselves and Kerry have so many. I mean we both could have just lost All Ireland finals over and over again, isn't that right?

Hope everyone had an ondlee fabbalus christmas and there were no choking incidents with turkeys or old family feuds that blew up into embarrassing public specatacles. You know how this time of year is for that.

Bonniedog · 27-12-2016 02:00PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No need. Parting shots from persons scorned should always be taken with a pinch of salt. And if in the long run the public shaming gets people to partake in some inward reflection then that can end up being quite a positive thing.

Besides, the dubs need a newer cryochamber than last years model! Cheque is in the post lads.

Don't think we are not grateful for the assistance of the good people of Mayo

corny · 27-12-2016 02:22PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ah come on proudDub. Be a bit more objective. If dublin had been 4 up on mayo with 10 to go this year. Only for us to get a goal where the ball is clearly fouled to get back into it, then a very soft free to win it, you would be posting a very different version of events im sure...

Dublin got the break they needed to break their duck, and fair play to them for that. No need to be trying to re-write history.

There's nothing objective about your contributions in this thread. You try and veil the sour grapes but we're picking it up, don't worry.

gormdubhgorm · 27-12-2016 02:33PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ah
Dublin got the break they needed to break their duck, and fair play to them for that. No need to be trying to re-write history.

I hate to agree with a Mayo man.... but I agree with you!

I am genuinely shocked about the reaction to how I felt at the game in 2011. I thought Kerry had it and switched into coasting mode.

I was thinking typical Kerry f**kers, ah sure at least we got to a final this time something to build on.

I did not read any "Kerry agenda" after it. I remember being ecstatic and feeling very fortunate.

I remember cursing Ger Brennan as well for fouling and Dublin fortunately winning the throw ball late on.

I also remember laughing as Cluxton walked slowly for about a minute and a half? Eating up time on Kerry and killing the game before his final kick.

Kevin Mc's goal in between all of the above changed the mood and momentum of the game.

I don't know why other Dubs are reluctant to admit Kerry were caught out in that game, they thought they had it. Most people in the ground including myself thought the same?!

Jaden · 27-12-2016 03:11PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Don't think we are not grateful for the assistance of the good people of Mayo

Very grateful - in fact so grateful that we express our gratitude by helping service the crippling debt on McHale Park. This year we'll chip in a little more to buy a decent lawnmower, grass was knee deep last time we were there.....

Maybe next year, we'll spring for a roof over the pitch too.

corny · 27-12-2016 03:20PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I hate to agree with a Mayo man.... but I agree with you!

I am genuinely shocked about the reaction to how I felt at the game in 2011. I thought Kerry had it and switched into coasting mode.

I was thinking typical Kerry f**kers, ah sure at least we got to a final this time something to build on.

I did not read any "Kerry agenda" after it. I remember being ecstatic and feeling very fortunate.

I remember cursing Ger Brennan as well for fouling and Dublin fortunately winning the throw ball late on.

I also remember laughing as Cluxton walked slowly for about a minute and a half? Eating up time on Kerry and killing the game before his final kick.

Kevin Mc's goal in between all of the above changed the mood and momentum of the game.

I don't know why other Dubs are reluctant to admit Kerry were caught out in that game, they thought they had it. Most people in the ground including myself thought the same?!

I remember in the Mayo replay last year (2015) feeling the same way. They kept breaking up our attacks and i thought we were running out of ideas. Shows you what we know.;) Dublin kept coming and the rest is history.

Thats the problem i have with the 'Kerry taking their eye off the ball' or 'lucky goal/free' talk...it ignores what Dublin have demonstrated time and time, (in virtually every tight game) they find a way. They're forcing the issue the entire time not having it handed to them.

Bonniedog · 27-12-2016 03:59PM

Will the football panel be on their holidays when the Blue Stars game is on in Parnell?

Someone was saying he heard they were heading to Caribbean this week.

Will make for an interesting line out if true.

Anyway this game or indeed the O'Byrne no longer has the importance it might have done a few years ago. I can't honestly think of one player not currently on panel, or not given a run before, who might do a Brian Fenton and vie for a first team place.

These games will be important for the hurlers given the droppings, resignations and absence of the Cuala lads. They are playing Carlow three days later in Parnell.

Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

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