Dublin GAA Discussion Thread MOD WARNING POST #2944

MayoAreMagic

corny wrote: »

There's nothing objective about your contributions in this thread. You try and veil the sour grapes but we're picking it up, don't worry.

I have in fact added nothing but objective posts to this thread to be honest with you. As for being sour, sour about what? The topic was 2011 - why would I be sour over that? My team werent involved and an underdog winning sam is surely something that would suit my interests, would it not? I would jump at the opportunity for my own team to get that go their way, and I have no issue admitting that freely.

What is the big deal like?

ProudDUB

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ah come on proudDub. Be a bit more objective. If dublin had been 4 up on mayo with 10 to go this year. Only for us to get a goal where the ball is clearly fouled to get back into it, then a very soft free to win it, you would be posting a very different version of events im sure...

Dublin got the break they needed to break their duck, and fair play to them for that. No need to be trying to re-write history.

Not re-writing history at all. History has backed up my version of events, even if the Kerry Media Mafia has brainwashed everyone into believing their version of events, that they were "robbed," or that our win was a "lucky" one. The recent history of this incarnation of the Dublin team, is that they do the most of their damge in the final quarter of the game, when other teams tire. It has happened numerous times other times since then. So why was the 2011 win a lucky one, but all the similar ones since then, are now accepted as business as usual? That doesn't make sense.

Maybe we just have different interpretation of what a lucky break is. In the 2012 AI semifinal against Mayo, we came back from a 10 pt half time deficit and almost tied up the game, with the final kick of the ball. We didn't and Mayo went on to win the game. If we had won the game, or even tied it up, that would be my idea of a lucky break. It was a game that Mayo deserved to win and if we had snatched it in the dying minutes, I wouldn't blame Mayo at all, for still being sore about it 5 years on. But when a team that is leading at half time, goes on to actually win the game, that is a different story entirely. You've completely ignored that rather important point.

b&g, I get where you are coming from. I'd imagine every single Dub entered Croker that day, with a fatalistic, 'fcukit, we're bloomin' lucky to be here' outlook. We did have 30 years of being on the wrong side of Dublin v Kerry history weighing us down. But we're just the long suffering supporters. What we thought going into Croker that day, didn't have a single thing to do, with what happened out on the pitch.

MayoAreMagic

Well i know personally, I felt you were lucky at the time - before any media was printed, I still feel that way, other dubs around me felt the same (I watched it in dublin) as do others on this forum. So that undermines this whole 'you have all brainwashed' spiel. Maybe it is yourself that has been brainwashed?

Also, what is the significance of leading at half time as opposed to, say after 25 minutes for example, or 45, or any other arbitrary point in time? Far less significant than leading with a few to go I would imagine.

Similarly, this point about other teams running out of gas. Well you were ahead then went 4 down. That would suggest that it was actually dublin that ran out of gas, would it not?

Not that i buy any of that to be honest with you. Dublin were nervous in a final, kerry the more experienced side, pulled away, like we see so often in finals, but dublin got the rub of the green with a goal that should have been a free out and they took the chance that came their way. That isnt me being critical either, i was actually delighted it did happen, im just stating what occurred.

ProudDUB

In the last 5 games of significance between Dublin and Kerry, Dublin have out scored Kerry 5-20 to 0-8, in the last 10 minutes of the games.

If people (from Kerry, or anywhere else) want to keep on believing that we steal lucky wins, that is entirely their prerogative. Knock yerselves out. We'll just be over here, polishing all our silverware. Tough life !

Shaungoater

Galvin switching to plunketts according to reports. A quick fix to me, mind boggling. They have a minor team who just won a minor b champ be better developing them players

MayoAreMagic

ProudDUB wrote: »

In the last 5 games of significance between Dublin and Kerry, Dublin have out scored Kerry 5-20 to 0-8, in the last 10 minutes of the games.

If people (from Kerry, or anywhere else) want to keep on believing that we steal lucky wins, that is entirely their prerogative. Knock yerselves out. We'll just be over here, polishing all our silverware. Tough life !

We aren't talking about dublin and kerry over their last 5 games though...
We are talking about the specific details of one game in 2011. Both sides have changed a lot in the interim, particularly dublin, who were actually employing a very defensive set up in 2011, so that is by in large irrelevant to this debate. To be frank, you are changing the subject on purpose because you just dont want to admit what I am saying is accurate. You are probably going to keep doing that too. Im just hoping a proper gaa fan from dublin, rather than a dublin gaa fan, can take uo the point

MayoAreMagic

ProudDUB wrote: »

In the last 5 games of significance between Dublin and Kerry, Dublin have out scored Kerry 5-20 to 0-8, in the last 10 minutes of the games.

If people (from Kerry, or anywhere else) want to keep on believing that we steal lucky wins, that is entirely their prerogative. Knock yerselves out. We'll just be over here, polishing all our silverware. Tough life !

We aren't talking about dublin and kerry over their last 5 games though...
We are talking about the specific details of one game in 2011. Both sides have changed a lot in the interim, particularly dublin, who were actually employing a very defensive set up in 2011, so that is by in large irrelevant to this debate. To be frank, you are changing the subject on purpose because you just dont want to admit what I am saying is accurate. You are probably going to keep doing that too. Im just hoping a proper gaa fan from dublin, rather than a dublin gaa fan, can take uo the point

radonicus

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well i know personally, I felt you were lucky at the time - before any media was printed, I still feel that way, other dubs around me felt the same (I watched it in dublin) as do others on this forum. So that undermines this whole 'you have all brainwashed' spiel. Maybe it is yourself that has been brainwashed?

Also, what is the significance of leading at half time as opposed to, say after 25 minutes for example, or 45, or any other arbitrary point in time? Far less significant than leading with a few to go I would imagine.

Similarly, this point about other teams running out of gas. Well you were ahead then went 4 down. That would suggest that it was actually dublin that ran out of gas, would it not?

Not that i buy any of that to be honest with you. Dublin were nervous in a final, kerry the more experienced side, pulled away, like we see so often in finals, but dublin got the rub of the green with a goal that should have been a free out and they took the chance that came their way. That isnt me being critical either, i was actually delighted it did happen, im just stating what occurred.

That game swung one way then the other, Dublin were ahead when the whistle went. Donaghy's point (to level) was a monster, Dublin were working like bastards. To have come back and taken the game from a good Kerry side deserves credit. All winners get a little luck, but ultimately if you win often enough, or lose often enough, you have to face facts and see that luck isn't the key factor. That was a serious Dublin team determined to win, and they did. Still are. If it was a one-off victory the 'luck' theory might hold, at the moment it looks like sore grapes.

Bonniedog

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

We aren't talking about dublin and kerry over their last 5 games though...
We are talking about the specific details of one game in 2011. Both sides have changed a lot in the interim, particularly dublin, who were actually employing a very defensive set up in 2011, so that is by in large irrelevant to this debate. To be frank, you are changing the subject on purpose because you just dont want to admit what I am saying is accurate. You are probably going to keep doing that too. Im just hoping a proper gaa fan from dublin, rather than a dublin gaa fan, can take uo the point

The logic of your argument - that Dublin won AIs through luck - is to bolster the argument about your county that it has been psychological or other factors which cost them big games, rather than being beaten by better teams.

Unless of course you do embrace the "losers", "bottlers", "chokers" argument regarding Mayo...

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

The logic of your argument - that Dublin won AIs through luck - is to bolster the argument about your county that it has been psychological or other factors which cost them big games, rather than being beaten by better teams.

Unless of course you do embrace the "losers", "bottlers", "chokers" argument regarding Mayo...

I would say that mayo suffer from that same nervous energy that dublin did in 2011, yes. That isnt any big stretch, it is a common thing in sport. Losing runs bring pressure and harbour doubt. Cork in the late 00s had a similar thing. Their slice of luck came in the shape of Down being their final opponents. Had that been kerry id say they would have lost.That doesnt make cork a poorer team though, which maybe some people seem to think i am trying to say about the dublin team. Im not. It is more a case of showing that the best team doesnt always win the match and that teams that havent won tend to need a break sometimes. Like there can be no denying that dublin post 2011 were a more confident side.

Re chokers, well id ask you the same question about dublin right up to the seconds pre mcmanamans goal in 11? Does a slice of luck/ poor refereeing change this, or was it nonsense from the start? Furthermore, have you ever considered how the following years would have gone had they still been carrying that monkey on their backs? Would they have won tight games or would they have continued to stutter at vital times? It is funny how small things can have a big effect.

MayoAreMagic

radonicus wrote: »

That game swung one way then the other, Dublin were ahead when the whistle went.

* due mainly to the goal im referring to...

As for sour grapes, i wont deny id love that slice of luck to come our way, i.e. a ref call that wins you the all ireland. Who wouldnt? But i dont think that is sour grapes to be fair. I definitely dont begrudge dublin their win. Probably more just lamenting that our turn to get that break didnt come yet

Bonniedog

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I would say that mayo suffer from that same nervous energy that dublin did in 2011, yes. That isnt any big stretch, it is a common thing in sport. Losing runs bring pressure and harbour doubt. Cork in the late 00s had a similar thing. Their slice of luck came in the shape of Down being their final opponents. Had that been kerry id say they would have lost.That doesnt make cork a poorer team though, which maybe some people seem to think i am trying to say about the dublin team. Im not. It is more a case of showing that the best team doesnt always win the match and that teams that havent won tend to need a break sometimes. Like there can be no denying that dublin post 2011 were a more confident side.

Re chokers, well id ask you the same question about dublin right up to the seconds pre mcmanamans goal in 11? Does a slice of luck/ poor refereeing change this, or was it nonsense from the start? Furthermore, have you ever considered how the following years would have gone had they still been carrying that monkey on their backs? Would they have won tight games or would they have continued to stutter at vital times? It is funny how small things can have a big effect.

There obviously is a psychological element in sport, and teams can get into habits of winning or losing, especially when games are close.

Dublin were derided as losers in the late 1980s and 1990s, mainly because they were consistently a top team but failed to win the big one until 1995. they had good and bad fortune along the way, but they were always good enough to be contenders.

I would regard Mayo as the same, even down to possibly been blind-sided in 2012 by Donegal as Dublin had been by same county in 1992.

That they are no congenital losers is proven by their consistency. They have also been unfortunate to encounter very good Dublin and Kerry teams in semi finals and finals.

Only time will tell - well, next two years really, whether they can go one step further. I think they have the ability but there is not guarantee in sport, any sport.

DoctaDee

Shaungoater wrote: »

Galvin switching to plunketts according to reports. A quick fix to me, mind boggling. They have a minor team who just won a minor b champ be better developing them players

I was on a spying mission one Sunday morning when I happened upon Round Towers (L) Minors playing in the B Champ, they were a serious outfit and had the looks of a team that would be very hard to beat - the fact OP/ER did speaks volumes for them

Shaungoater

DoctaDee wrote: »

I was on a spying mission one Sunday morning when I happened upon Round Towers (L) Minors playing in the B Champ, they were a serious outfit and had the looks of a team that would be very hard to beat - the fact OP/ER did speaks volumes for them

They want success by any means possible it seems. Not alone I suppose. No long term plan just short term goals but sure ain't that what the gaa has always been about? Their player pathway and all that.

I don't begrudge a player who is from a different county playing with a team that's now local to them, but plunketts take the piss with some of their carry on.

Godge

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Probably more just lamenting that our turn to get that break didnt come yet

Dublin waited from 1995 to 2011 and spent the time in-between moaning and whinging about referees and unfair advantages the way that Mayo have for 60 years. Dublin constantly complained about not getting the break, freak goals at the start of second halfs, Cluxton meltdown, penalties not awarded, penalties missed, about opponents being favoured from Kerry to Tyrone and everyone in-between etc.

You are probably used to it, you have grown up listening to the same thing from your neighbours and friends with just a Mayo tinge to it.

How does it change? With a group of players who change it. Unfortunately, so far it looks like the current crop of Mayo players don't have the cojones to change it, maybe 2017 will be different, but if I was honest I would see Kerry and Tyrone as bigger threats to Dublin.

Bonniedog

Anyone else at Parnell today?


Craobh really took the p1ss charging 3 Euro for a "programme" that was full of ads, and only had 5/6 of the players on either of the Blue Stars and no team sheet for the "Dublin" team.

Also bit worrying that only one of senior hurling panel played today. What the fk is going on?


Football was entertaining enough game having said that.

Dyr

Bonniedog wrote: »

Also bit worrying that only one of senior hurling panel played today. What the fk is going on?

Who?

Bonniedog

Crummy was only one I recognised. Didn't catch the team they read out, but heard that he seemed to be only one.

Be interesting to see who plays against Carlow on Wednesday.

DoctaDee

Castleknock were well represented today with Connolly, Hannigan, Shiels & Boland with Dub Stars and O'Brien with Dublin - probably a sign of things to come ...

Past30Now

McHugh (2nd half) and Quinn were both class. In some respects Quinn is probably a better footballer now than he was in his heyday. He's more confident, knows his role, doesn't panic.

MayoAreMagic

Godge wrote: »

Dublin waited from 1995 to 2011 and spent the time in-between moaning and whinging about referees and unfair advantages the way that Mayo have for 60 years. Dublin constantly complained about not getting the break, freak goals at the start of second halfs, Cluxton meltdown, penalties not awarded, penalties missed, about opponents being favoured from Kerry to Tyrone and everyone in-between etc.

You are probably used to it, you have grown up listening to the same thing from your neighbours and friends with just a Mayo tinge to it.

How does it change? With a group of players who change it. Unfortunately, so far it looks like the current crop of Mayo players don't have the cojones to change it, maybe 2017 will be different, but if I was honest I would see Kerry and Tyrone as bigger threats to Dublin.

Sorry, but what unfair advantages were Dublin moaning about?

The reality is your version of events is defined by the result. But the result can very often be defined by these events. You seem to fail to realise that had one or two of these things gone against Dublin instead of for them, they would have lost, and thus would be on the opposite side of things in the argument. You have the cart before the horse. The result doesn't define the reality, like you seem to think. In fact, the result is very often defined by these events, and the narrative is just filled in afterwards by commenters, anxious to pretence their ability to explain the result, with the type of, frankly, bs that you have just posted...

As for 'changing it', Dublin actually still moan more than anyone - and they are winning. For example, Connolly gets a deserved red card against ourselves last year and the entire county of Dublin go into meltdown for a full week up to the replay, with floods of tears washing down every street and feigned indignation at every turn. They then try to excuse an eye-gouging, headbutter, and then whinge more when he doesn't get poty... Like, you would nearly laugh, if it wasn't so depressing. If some dub fans viewed their own actions and behaviours when something doesnt go their way, in the cold light of day, they would cringe for a fortnight. Can I just ask you to consider, what would the reaction have been if keegan had headbutted and eye-gouged Connolly?

Bonniedog

Past30Now wrote: »

McHugh (2nd half) and Quinn were both class. In some respects Quinn is probably a better footballer now than he was in his heyday. He's more confident, knows his role, doesn't panic.

He is much cuter than he used to be. He is mostly anonymous but turns up very often in just the right place. Must be a nightmare to mark.

Jaden

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Can I just ask you to consider, what would the reaction have been if keegan was reputed to have headbutted and eye-gouged Connolly?

There, I fixed it for you, no charge.

To answer the question, I'd imagine the reaction would have been a storm of protest on Social Media, with lots of outrage and indignation on either side. The net effect of which would be advertising revenues for some websites increasing, and basically nothing else.

MayoAreMagic

Jaden wrote: »

There, I fixed it for you, no charge.

To answer the question, I'd imagine the reaction would have been a storm of protest on Social Media, with lots of outrage and indignation on either side. The net effect of which would be advertising revenues for some websites increasing, and basically nothing else.

Well not really, because we already got that and more when he just pulled his jersey a bit when the ball was out of play...

Also, why would mayo people be indignant or outraged after their guy headbutted someone and gouged their eye?


For me, the real disgrace of it is the way a giant of the game like keegan - comfortably the best player in the game and arguably the best half back ever - is allowed to be blackened to keep up this charade of being hard done by. A proper gaa person wouldn't stand for that.

Also, there is no reputed about it. It happened. the same way keegan did pull Connolly's jersey in an altercation between the two - it happened, Im honest enough to accept that.

ProudDUB

A giant of the game you say ! Gosh. How exciting for you. How lucky we are to be allowed breath the same air as him.

If only you were as outraged about that other Mayo "giant" of the game, needing to do a swan dive of Olympic proportions, to get a win against lowly Fermanagh. Funny how Diarmuid Connolly sullying the good name of St Leroy (blesses self & genuflects) gets you far more hot and bothered than that does.

Ah well....you keep on finding things to complain about and making excuses for. We'll keep on winning trophies. Deal?

Jaden

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Also, there is no reputed about it. It happened.

Offering an opinion as an incontrovertible truth, does not make it so - regardless of how entrenched your point of view is. I'm unsure as to what value you hope to extract from any of this. Maybe it's just venting. FBD is starting up soon, that might provide some new avenue of relief.

MayoAreMagic

ProudDUB wrote: »

A giant of the game you say ! Gosh. How exciting for you. How lucky we are to be allowed breath the same air as him.

If only you were as outraged about that other Mayo "giant" of the game, needing to do a swan dive of Olympic proportions, to get a win against lowly Fermanagh. Funny how Diarmuid Connolly sullying the good name of St Leroy (blesses self & genuflects) gets you far more hot and bothered than that does.

Ah well....you keep on finding things to complain about and making excuses for. We'll keep on winning trophies. Deal?

You aren't referencing what I am talking about though, you are just raving with the same feigned indignation that I referred to earlier.
I never mentioned anything about Connolly sullying anyone's name. My point was about the purposely over the top reaction from their fans with a load of high-horsing and grandstanding, despite being completely wrong - a reaction that you have just illustrated perfectly.

You see the difference is, I have never claimed that AOS didn't go down easily against Fermanagh - as I pointed out earlier I accept reality fully. Can the Dublin fans make the same point about their behaviour towards the best player in the game today in keegan? Let that sink in for a minute - the best player in the game, and guys only want to knock him with made up, over the top garbage. it is the equivalent of guys saying Messi and Ronaldo are just hoofers who only do well by kicking lumps out of people... It's actually quite pathetic.

The root of the problem is too many people are Dublin gaa fans and couldn't give a t*ss about the gaa or gaelic football itself. No proper fan of the game could act that way. A genuine fan would have too much respect for a player of that calibre.

MayoAreMagic

Jaden wrote: »

Offering an opinion as an incontrovertible truth, does not make it so - regardless of how entrenched your point of view is. I'm unsure as to what value you hope to extract from any of this. Maybe it's just venting. FBD is starting up soon, that might provide some new avenue of relief.

Well eyewitness accounts are generally cast iron. In fact wasn't the guy banned for the eye gouge? Yet you contend it never happened.

Denial of the truth, doesn't make it an untruth. Who do you think you are kidding with that one?

Bottom line; We all know it happened - dont let yourself down by not being honest enough a person to admit it...

Bonniedog

Jaden wrote: »

Offering an opinion as an incontrovertible truth, does not make it so - regardless of how entrenched your point of view is. I'm unsure as to what value you hope to extract from any of this. Maybe it's just venting. FBD is starting up soon, that might provide some new avenue of relief.

Have the O'Shea brothers picked the team yet

DoctaDee

Bonniedog wrote: »

Have the O'Shea brothers picked the team yet

They've new county jerseys too, I'm sure the lads were asked for their input, rumours abound they wanted to call the team Breaffo