Leinster vs Munster buildup

molloyjh · 06-10-2016 10:45am

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Franno in the Indo reckons that the Munster backrow of POM/TOD/Stander is the strongest in the country. He also appears to indicate that with Tyler fit, Munster have the better half-backs too.

Munster a screwed so.

Thanks Franno!

thomond2006 · 06-10-2016 10:45am

POM/TOD/Stander is potentially the best in Europe. 3 players in their prime.

I'm not sure on Bleyendaal just yet.

06-10-2016 10:47am

Munster

Surely that backrow needs work?

POM/TOD/STD

CJS? STR?

shootermacg · 06-10-2016 10:52am

The team that scores the most points

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

Franno in the Indo reckons that the Munster backrow of POM/TOD/Stander is the strongest in the country. He also appears to indicate that with Tyler fit, Munster have the better half-backs too.

Franno up to his old tricks again. Its a ****ty day in Leinster when they have to get their own journos to write the pin on the dressing room door articles.

Quick someone get on to Donal Lenihan, we need another one down in munster stat!

Clegg · 06-10-2016 11:07am

Munster

Munster's backrow might shade Leinster's but there's a gaping chasm between the respective 10's. Sexton is superior in every aspect.

Also Leinster have huge strength in depth in the backrow right now that one of Ruddock, Murphy or Leavy could slot in at 6 or 7 and wouldn't hinder the side in the slightest. Leinster's bench may be the winning of the game for them. There's lots of quality in the forwards there.

06-10-2016 11:08am

Munster

All fit and firing I'd take "SOB / VDF / Heaslip" over "POM / TOD / Stander" any day of the week.

leakyboots · 06-10-2016 11:10am

The team that scores the most points

Tasty clash in the backrow alright. I don't think POM and TOD are fully up to speed yet, I'd think POM won't start to be honest.

Stat:
Since the professional era, there has been 42 games between the 2 provinces, 20 wins each and two drawn games.

Leinster have 45 wins to Munsters 41 since 1946

molloyjh · 06-10-2016 11:16am

Leinster have the better tight 5, are pretty close in the back row, have the better half backs and both sets of outside backs are relatively evenly matched. Leinsters bench should be far superior up front though. If forwards decide who wins games then Leinster surely have the edge?

awec · 06-10-2016 11:17am

Hopefully the two teams put on a better show than last season's dour rugby league fest we had to endure in Lansdowne Road.

06-10-2016 11:20am

Munster

Of the last 10 games, Munster have 3 wins, Leinster 7.

Year Game 1 Game 2 Game 3 L M D
2000/01 Leinster 16 Munster 16 Munster 26 Leinster 20 1 1
2001/02 Leinster 24 Munster 20 (CL Final) Munster 6 Leinster 6 1 1
2002/03 no matches
2003/04 Leinster 8 Munster 15 Munster 24 Leinster 13 2
2004/05 Leinster 17 Munster 15 Munster 19 Leinster 13 Leinster 17 Munster 23 1 2
2005/06 Munster 33 Leinster 9 Leinster 35 Munster 23 Leinster 6 Munster 30 1 2
2006/07 Leinster 27 Munster 20 Munster 25 Leinster 11 1 1
2007/08 Munster 3 Leinster 10 Leinster 21 Munster 12 2 0
2008/09 Leinster 0 Munster 18 Munster 22 Leinster 5 Munster 6 Leinster 25 1 2
2009/10 Leinster 30 Munster 0 Munster 15 Leinster 16 Leinster 16 Munster 6 3 0
2010/11 Leinster 13 Munster 9 Munster 24 Leinster 23 Munster 19 Leinster 9 1 2
2011/12 Leinster 24 Munster 19 Munster 9 Leinster 18 2 0
2012/13 Leinster 30 Munster 21 Munster 16 Leinster 22 2 0
2013/14 Munster 19 Leinster 15 Leinster 22 Munster 18 1 1
2014/15 Leinster 23 Munster 34 Munster 28 Leinster 13 0 2
2015/16 Munster 7 Leinster 24 Leinster 16 Munster 13 2 0

bennyl10 · 06-10-2016 11:21am

The team that scores the most points

Clegg wrote: »

Munster's backrow might shade Leinster's but there's a gaping chasm between the respective 10's. Sexton is superior in every aspect

Don't think we've seen enough of Tyler to say every aspect..
I don't think he could be a much worse tackler, for example..

And of the tee he's showing some great promise..

Maybe Saturday could be the making of him!

El_Duderino 09 · 06-10-2016 11:22am

leakyboots wrote:

Tasty clash in the backrow alright. I don't think POM and TOD are fully up to speed yet, I'd think POM won't start to be honest.

Those are 6 cracking back rowers and I'd be delighted with either. If you include the bench then you would favour Leinster's back row

molloyjh · 06-10-2016 11:24am

bennyl10 wrote: »

Don't think we've seen enough of Tyler to say every aspect..
I don't think he could be a much worse tackler, for example..

And of the tee he's showing some great promise..

Maybe Saturday could be the making of him!

Sexton is a good defender. I really don't know where the idea he's a bad tackler comes from.

Mahatma Geansai · 06-10-2016 11:28am

The team that scores the most points

Clegg wrote: »

Munster's backrow might shade Leinster's but there's a gaping chasm between the respective 10's. Sexton is superior in every aspect.

Also Leinster have huge strength in depth in the backrow right now that one of Ruddock, Murphy or Leavy could slot in at 6 or 7 and wouldn't hinder the side in the slightest. Leinster's bench may be the winning of the game for them. There's lots of quality in the forwards there.

There's even a greater chasm between the respective 9's though.

molloyjh · 06-10-2016 11:30am

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

There's even a greater chasm between the respective 9's though.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. From what little I've seen of Bleyendaal he's not much more than decent. McGrath has been going very well at 9 this season. While there is certainly a fairly sizeable gap from Murray down I'd take McGrath-Sexton over Murray-Bleyendaal at the moment.

awec · 06-10-2016 11:35am

Bleyendaal is too much of an unknown to even bother making such comparisons.

06-10-2016 11:38am

Munster

awec wrote: »

Bleyendaal is too much of an unknown to even bother making such comparisons.

Exactly. I heard on here people saying he would be the future Munster 10 and likely push for Ireland before he'd kicked a ball. He could be brilliant, so far he has been average but it's still unknown what way he will go.

I expect Luke McGrath will be benching during the six nations and maybe the AI's.

shootermacg · 06-10-2016 12:28pm

The team that scores the most points

PoM isn't match fit, ToD isn't either. Heaslip usually raises his game for these and when he does he's the best 8 in ireland by a long shot, he's always in the ref's ear and another seven on the ground.

I think munster are a bit light at the breakdown tbh, CJ is good for a turnover, but with PoM nursing a long layoff and ToD not up to speed, I see this as an area that leinster will win handily enough. All in all, you can't look past Leinster at home for this game.

I do think though, that munster have the raw materials to have a good overall season this year, but maybe this match came too soon for them, which is a shame for munster, because the winner of this one carries a lot of confidence into the european fixtures.

I'll be mostly looking at this game to see how the scrum is going and, how munster handle the transition from attack into defense (something that's been a real pain to watch last season).

But if they hand a sneaky shooing to the odd lazy roller, I'll take it!

Neil3030 · 06-10-2016 12:53pm

After his coming of age performance on Saturday, the answer to the question of who has the best back row in Ireland will simply be: "whichever one has Van der Flier".

.ak · 06-10-2016 2:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

All fit and firing I'd take "SOB / VDF / Heaslip" over "POM / TOD / Stander" any day of the week.

I don't see the appeal of moving the countries best openside to blindside.

Ruds/SOB/Heaslip is a better backrow IMO

Hagz · 06-10-2016 2:29pm

Munster

If it's a question of would I rather have Rhys Ruddock out there or Josh Van der Flier, then at the minute it would have to be Van der Flier.

Clegg · 06-10-2016 2:34pm

Munster

The thing about Van der Flier that sets him apart from other backrows at the moment is how he takes the ball into contact. He always tries to take the ball at a run rather than standing still at phase play. For someone who is relatively small he consistently gets beyond the gain line.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-10-2016 4:18pm

.ak wrote:

I don't see the appeal of moving the countries best openside to blindside.

SOB was a blindside to begin with. He was moved to open side out of necessity and after about 18 months, it worked. I preferred him at blindside when he was smashing lads. VDF is a natural 7. Let him at it

Felix Jones is God · 06-10-2016 6:03pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

SOB was a blindside to begin with. He was moved to open side out of necessity and after about 18 months, it worked. I preferred him at blindside when he was smashing lads. VDF is a natural 7. Let him at it

Is the old "O'Brien isn't a natural 7" as close to Godwin's law as we get in this forum?

Podge_irl · 06-10-2016 6:58pm

Munster

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

SOB was a blindside to begin with. He was moved to open side out of necessity and after about 18 months, it worked. I preferred him at blindside when he was smashing lads. VDF is a natural 7. Let him at it

My recollection is that he was an openside to begin with who got moved to 6 because of Jennings.

06-10-2016 8:15pm

Did anyone get to the bottom of why this is on at 2pm?! I'm gonna absolutely **** faced arriving at my mates birthday that night

ionadnapokot · 06-10-2016 8:25pm

Felix Jones is God wrote: »

Is the old "O'Brien isn't a natural 7" as close to Godwin's law as we get in this forum?

Yes....but I had to look up Godwin's law!
Makes ZERO difference what Number is on the back
Pack balance etc the SOB 6/7 debate at Rwc 11 was a bad joke
difficult for "fetchers" to compete as the game favours the attacking team With each passing WC cycle.
No more POM style putting arms beyond the ball
World rugby do not want rucks - slowing the game plus the number of injuries that occur at the ruck

El_Duderino 09 · 06-10-2016 8:55pm

Felix Jones is God wrote:

Is the old "O'Brien isn't a natural 7" as close to Godwin's law as we get in this forum?

Whatever it took him well over a season to be a convincing 7 and we lost a good bit of his ball carrying. He isn't getting any younger so I'd have no problem if he was the best choice at 6 or if VDF becomes the best choice at 7.

Podge_irl wrote:

My recollection is that he was an openside to begin with who got moved to 6 because of Jennings.

Wasn't it to do with Wallace retiring before the world cup? Maybe I gave it wrong.

Did he play open side for Leinster to begin with?

.ak · 06-10-2016 9:02pm

There's no one on this island near SOBs level at openside, regardless of where you believe he started out at.

.ak · 06-10-2016 9:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Did anyone get to the bottom of why this is on at 2pm?! I'm gonna absolutely **** faced arriving at my mates birthday that night

Correction: we'll all be ****faced at your mates birthday that night.

El_Duderino 09 · 06-10-2016 9:08pm

.ak wrote:

There's no one on this island near SOBs level at openside, regardless of where you believe he started out at.[/qwz, uote]

Hard to say that given how injury prone he has been in the last few years. He hadn't played 5/6 games in a row in how long? 2-3 years? Grand if you want to keep him for the 6 nations and a handful of champions cup games each year. That's not how you judge the other players so it's a bit pointless saying he's the best in any position.

Im delighted he's back but I wouldn't count in him.

06-10-2016 9:10pm

Munster

Yup. SOB becoming another Ferris.

Best option by a long way when fit.

Never Fit.

ionadnapokot · 06-10-2016 9:28pm

No 1 is SOB
No 2 is SOB
No 3 is SOB
......you know the rest

Hagz · 06-10-2016 10:58pm

Munster

What does it matter if you slap a 6 on his back? It doesn't diminish his abilities and it doesn't have to change the way he plays. It's not as though VdF wins significant ball on the deck anyway. It's not like you'd have two fetchers and an off balanced back-row.

Get your best players out there, like Australia did with Pocock and Hooper.

irishbucsfan · 06-10-2016 11:03pm

Munster

Hagz wrote: »

What does it matter if you slap a 6 on his back? It doesn't diminish his abilities and it doesn't have to change the way he plays. It's not as though VdF wins significant ball on the deck anyway. It's not like you'd have two fetchers and an off balanced back-row.

Get your best players out there, like Australia did with Pocock and Hooper.

+1 People seem to consistently forget this point. As if it makes a major difference to SOB's game if he wears 6 or 7

07-10-2016 6:42am

Munster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYNlwYj2hN4

2_fri · 07-10-2016 9:24am

Have a spare ticket if anyone is looking. Selling face value [e15]. Which is a lot cheaper than the ones on ticketmaster at the moment!

Could meet up before the game.

07-10-2016 9:25am

Munster

Hagz wrote: »

What does it matter if you slap a 6 on his back? It doesn't diminish his abilities and it doesn't have to change the way he plays. It's not as though VdF wins significant ball on the deck anyway. It's not like you'd have two fetchers and an off balanced back-row.

Get your best players out there, like Australia did with Pocock and Hooper.

This is it exactly. SOB can be just as effective no matter what position in the back row he plays. In terms of personnel it has to be himself, VdF and Heaslip if everyone is fit.

Saying he's way better than everyone else at 7 in Ireland is only half true. When he plays to the top of his game I think he's just way better than everyone in Ireland, full stop.

golfer555 · 07-10-2016 9:31am

How are ticket sales going? Will they get over 40,000?

Clegg · 07-10-2016 9:33am

Munster

SOB's performance against New Zealand is the best I've ever seen from any Irish Rugby player for province or country. Hit that level of workrate, accuracy and intensity that made him unstoppable and immovable.

thomond2006 · 07-10-2016 9:39am

Clegg wrote: »

SOB's performance against New Zealand is the best I've ever seen from any Irish Rugby player for province or country. Hit that level of workrate, accuracy and intensity that made him unstoppable and immovable.

I do not recall such a game against New Zealand.

07-10-2016 9:40am

Munster

Clegg wrote: »

SOB's performance against New Zealand is the best I've ever seen from any Irish Rugby player for province or country. Hit that level of workrate, accuracy and intensity that made him unstoppable and immovable.

Yup. On a day when everyone was very good, he was exceptional. Best player on the pitch for either team.

I wonder had all the all-blacks filled out their TUE's before that match...?

paddy no 11 · 07-10-2016 10:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

Yup. On a day when everyone was very good, he was exceptional. Best player on the pitch for either team.

I wonder had all the all-blacks filled out their TUE's before that match...?

.........

thomond2006 · 07-10-2016 10:49am

Munster XV:
Simon Zebo; Darren Sweetnam, Keith Earls, Rory Scannell, Ronan O'Mahony; Tyler Bleyendaal, Conor Murray;
Dave Kilcoyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Donnacha Ryan, Billy Holland; Peter O'Mahony - capt., Tommy O'Donnell, CJ Stander.

Replacements: Duncan Casey, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Robin Copeland, Jack O'Donoghue, Duncan Williams, Ian Keatley, Jaco Taute.

POM starting!!!!

Kilcoyne starting over Cronin is a surprise. Big step up for ROM.

Mahatma Geansai · 07-10-2016 10:56am

The team that scores the most points

I would imagine that the plan is to pair the best and worst scrummaging props together. That is why Kilcoyne is paired with Ryan, and Cronin with Archer.

Delighted to see POM back fit, but there is a worry that it is a week or two too soon for him to be starting.

Copeland's first game of the season and he is the sub lock.

thomond2006 · 07-10-2016 10:59am

Leinster Rugby: (Leinster caps in brackets)

15. Rob Kearney (178)
14. Rory O'Loughlin (3)
13. Garry Ringrose (26)
12. Robbie Henshaw (0)
11. Isa Nacewa (151) CAPTAIN
10. Johnny Sexton (128)
9. Luke McGrath (54)
1. Cian Healy (157)
2. Sean Cronin (117)
3. Tadhg Furlong (54)
4. Devin Toner (184)
5. Ian Nagle (1)
6. Rhys Ruddock (115)
7. Jordi Murphy (84)
8. Jamie Heaslip (220)

16. James Tracy (20)
17. Jack McGrath (98)
18. Mike Ross (139)
19. Ross Molony (27)
20. Dan Leavy (18)
21. Jamison Gibson-Park (5)
22. Joey Carbery (5)
23. Noel Reid (64)

Nagle starting ahead of Molony, wow! Henshaw back fit is great to see.

sullivlo · 07-10-2016 11:01am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Leinster Rugby: (Leinster caps in brackets)

15. Rob Kearney (178)
14. Rory O'Loughlin (3)
13. Garry Ringrose (26)
12. Robbie Henshaw (0)
11. Isa Nacewa (151) CAPTAIN
10. Johnny Sexton (128)
9. Luke McGrath (54)
1. Cian Healy (157)
2. Sean Cronin (117)
3. Tadhg Furlong (54)
4. Devin Toner (184)
5. Ian Nagle (1)
6. Rhys Ruddock (115)
7. Jordi Murphy (84)
8. Jamie Heaslip (220)

16. James Tracy (20)
17. Jack McGrath (98)
18. Mike Ross (139)
19. Ross Molony (27)
20. Dan Leavy (18)
21. Jamison Gibson-Park (5)
22. Joey Carbery (5)
23. Noel Reid (64)

Nagle starting ahead of Molony, wow! Henshaw back fit is great to see.

No vdf?

connemara man · 07-10-2016 11:02am

Henshaw in what most Connacht fans would have said is his weakest position that he has played in.

07-10-2016 11:03am

Munster

sullivlo wrote: »

No vdf?

Rested. Good opportunity to give him a break so he can play vs the better teams.

Thanos · 07-10-2016 11:03am

Munster

Really looking forward to see how that 12/13 partnership goes for Leinster.

Leinster vs Munster buildup

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