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UFC 200 Event Thread - Cormier v Jones 2

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    #1412
    martyos121
    Registered Users Posts: 21,380 ✭✭✭✭martyos121


    Gamebred wrote: »
    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTM2jBQQzk5nCswt2KtCkoQ6ztp7JaJwaAnav-y33KpPZhxXLx8


    Yeah marty an inhaler will ya get your head out the clouds.

    How many times you posted that picture now? :rolleyes: You don't seem to understand the concept of a "discussion", do you Gamebred? Brock fails a test so he must be on pure anabolic steroids, yeah? Despite passing 5 tests beforehand with no word yet of any further tests returning a violation.

    Yep, my head's in the clouds alright. You're not exactly a beacon of open-mindedness, are you? You know as little as anyone does, bar Lesnar and USADA, of this violation, myself included of course as well as everyone here. Not going to get into a petty argument with you over it but jesus would you ever wind it in a bit mate, anyone that disagrees with your points and you're straight on the defensive.

    By the way, did you miss where I said the inhaler rumour came from dubious sources? By all means though, have a laugh at this if you're proven right when the info comes out, but steady on until it does man.


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    #1413
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Gamebred wrote: »
    Come on now 4 months off juice is a world of difference to 4 weeks.
    I never said it wasn't different.
    I said they were both cheating. I find it odd that anyone would disagree with that?


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    #1414
    Gamebred
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gamebred


    martyos121 wrote: »
    How many times you posted that picture now? :rolleyes: You don't seem to understand the concept of a "discussion", do you Gamebred? Brock fails a test so he must be on pure anabolic steroids, yeah? Despite passing 5 tests beforehand with no word yet of any further tests returning a violation.

    Yep, my head's in the clouds alright. You're not exactly a beacon of open-mindedness, are you? You know as little as anyone does, bar Lesnar and USADA, of this violation, myself included of course as well as everyone here. Not going to get into a petty argument with you over it but jesus would you ever wind it in a bit mate, anyone that disagrees with your points and you're straight on the defensive.

    By the way, did you miss where I said the inhaler rumour came from dubious sources? By all means though, have a laugh at this if you're proven right when the info comes out, but steady on until it does man.


    I dont need any tests to come back look at the man his whole career hes juiced to the bloody gills im shocked anyone can have the opinion he has been clean at any stage of his career fighting or wrestling,If you think the ufc is innocent in all this and knew nothing ok we can agree to disagree.


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    #1415
    Gamebred
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gamebred


    Mellor wrote: »
    I never said it was t different.
    I said they were both cheating. I find it odd that anyone would disagree with that?


    I mean if you make them be clean for the 4 month your going to get a fairer contest,4 weeks and they will still have the benefits of the cycle,4 months off juice I've seen the effects for myself on people who abuse them for appearance enchancement only.


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    #1416
    martyos121
    Registered Users Posts: 21,380 ✭✭✭✭martyos121


    Gamebred wrote: »
    I dont need any tests to come back look at the man his whole career hes juiced to the bloody gills im shocked anyone can have the opinion he has been clean at any stage of his career fighting or wrestling,If you think the ufc is innocent in all this and knew nothing ok we can agree to disagree.

    Thing is though, I never once said he was innocent or clean. There's an awful difference between what I was saying (hoping he was clean) and what you think I was saying (clearing him of any wrongdoing). You've either badly misunderstood me or you just don't really care and want to continue peddling your agenda against him. Either way, yeah, we aren't going to see eye-to-eye on it.


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    #1417
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    finglashoop wrote: »
    If gsp signals intent to fight again they should start to test him straight away. Lesnar officially signed a contract four weeks out so thats 12 weeks testing time he avoided. Then subsequently failed a test where results are only out after the event is done..

    He intended to compete long before he signed the contract, that is when he goes in the pool but dana et al lied about it.
    GSP has verbally indicated his intent to fight recently. Nothing signed. Should testers be allowed to wake him up at 5am tomorrow?


    Lesnar went into the pool when he signed, same as every other signing. I'm not sure what you are saying Dana lied about?


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    #1418
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Gamebred wrote: »
    I mean if you make them be clean for the 4 month your going to get a fairer contest,4 weeks and they will still have the benefits of the cycle,4 months off juice I've seen the effects for myself on people who abuse them for appearance enchancement only.
    What effects have you seen for yourself?

    Strength will fall off when they come off. But I wouldn't be convinced that it's gone by 4 months, in a situation where they had a few years and cycles under their belt.


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    #1419
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Depp wrote: »
    dont get it twisted brock definitely knows his way around an anabolic steroid but theres a very small chance that he passes three tests then fails the 4th if hes on anabolics, be interesting to see what the rest of the out of comp/in comp tests come back as
    That's the weird part for me. Either they missed something first time around (not impossible), or he failed for a substance he took towards the end of June. Which isn't going to be steroids at that point.

    The source for the inhaler info is an unnamed training partner. If it turns out to be the case, he'd probably have a prescription for it.


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    #1420
    Devastator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,480 ✭✭✭Devastator


    Mellor wrote: »
    That's the weird part for me. Either they missed something first time around (not impossible), or he failed for a substance he took towards the end of June. Which isn't going to be steroids at that point.

    The source for the inhaler info is an unnamed training partner. If it turns out to be the case, he'd probably have a prescription for it.


    It's similar to Jones(among others) then as in, he's either just started taking something or its been missed in previous tests(all along)?

    I dunno about that inhaler story at all. Did he suddenly just towards the end of June find out he needed an inhaler? Even if he had a prescription, if it contains something on the banned list he shouldn't be taking it. Its his responsibility for what goes into his body.


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    #1421
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Devastator wrote: »
    It's similar to Jones(among others) then as in, he's either just started taking something or its been missed in previous tests(all along)?
    With Jones he could have been on drugs all along but "off" when he was tested. Or maybe he just started for this fight. They would have tested for the blockers.

    No way he would just get on the gear in late June. Either they caught a latent metabolite hanging around his system. Or he took a non-anabolic PED.
    dunno about that inhaler story at all. Did he suddenly just towards the end of June find out he needed an inhaler? Even if he had a prescription, if it contains something on the banned list he shouldn't be taking it. Its his responsibility for what goes into his body.
    Apparently he's been on the Asthma drugs for a number of years.
    Perscriptive use of certain asthma drugs is permitted, but you have to stay with regular dosing. I'd guess that whatever he used was different (as it was a violation), but he may be within TUE territory.


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    #1422
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    Cormier via Decision
    This post has been deleted.


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    #1423
    Devastator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,480 ✭✭✭Devastator


    Mellor wrote: »
    Apparently he's been on the Asthma drugs for a number of years.
    Perscriptive use of certain asthma drugs is permitted, but you have to stay with regular dosing. I'd guess that whatever he used was different (as it was a violation), but he may be within TUE territory.

    I don't have asthma so I know very little about it or its drugs. I would have presumed though, that for something to be permitted it would still have to be clean, i.e not contain anything on the banned list?

    That just made me think of something else re: supplements. If USADA,WADA or UFC test medications so they can either permit or ban them, could they not do the same with supplements and advice fighters a list of which supplements they have cleared. Then if a fighter chooses to use a different company they are running a risk of it potentially failing. It would put a stop to fighters using that as an excuse anyway and give DW another "I told you so dummy!" moment


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    #1424
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,107 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Asthma is a big one in professional sport, can be used to get a good few exemptions.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #1425
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Jones passes umpteen tests this yeas and was only flagged for one and nobody is giving him the benefit of the doubt, why would they give someone like Brock, who fails the smell test massively, a free pass?

    The inhaler is a convenient excuse but if he was on medication he would have declared it when he was registering with USADA, the test was OOC so it wasn't for something stupid like ibuprofen either.

    At one stage half the Irish rugby team had TUE's for inhalers, funny that...


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    #1426
    Depp
    Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    Jones via Submission
    problem with inhalers is theyre usually a bronchodilator which essentially allows your lungs to absorb more oxygen, which on healthy lungs is a big advantage so it makes sense, think they have some sort of anabolic effect aswel but im not too sure


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    #1427
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Depp wrote: »
    problem with inhalers is theyre usually a bronchodilator which essentially allows your lungs to absorb more oxygen, which on healthy lungs is a big advantage so it makes sense, think they have some sort of anabolic effect aswel but im not too sure

    One of the steroids in common inhalers also have similar effects to Clenbuterol.


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    #1428
    Depp
    Registered Users Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    Jones via Submission
    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    One of the steroids in common inhalers also have similar effects to Clenbuterol.

    isnt clenbuterol prescribed to really bad asthma patients aswel?


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    #1429
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Depp wrote: »
    isnt clenbuterol prescribed to really bad asthma patients aswel?

    Possibly, but it also helps to lose fat and build muscle.


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    #1430
    finglashoop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭finglashoop


    Mellor wrote: »
    GSP has verbally indicated his intent to fight recently. Nothing signed. Should testers be allowed to wake him up at 5am tomorrow?


    Lesnar went into the pool when he signed, same as every other signing. I'm not sure what you are saying Dana lied about?

    Yes. Gsp shpuld be tested for four months before he can book a fight. Leanar was "signed" 4 weeks out. He should have been in the pool as soon as he signalled his intent if the fight was four months or less.

    Dana avoided usada as much as he could.


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    #1431
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    finglashoop wrote: »
    Yes. Gsp shpuld be tested for four months before he can book a fight. Leanar was "signed" 4 weeks out. He should have been in the pool as soon as he signalled his intent if the fight was four months or less.

    But we don't know the date GSP will return, USADA doesn't, UFC doesn't etc.
    I'm asking if we should be testing him now, in mid July, based on his indication that he'll return? As you suggested above.


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    #1432
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    Jones passes umpteen tests this yeas and was only flagged for one and nobody is giving him the benefit of the doubt, why would they give someone like Brock, who fails the smell test massively, a free pass?

    If Jones passed 5 tests in a month, and failed a 6th. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it was anabolic drugs.
    In Jones' case I thought he passed earlier in the year, and failed a random test in early June. It's the proximity of a clean tests to the failed one that stands out. Not clean tests earlier in the year.

    darced wrote: »
    Lads is there something strange about a fighter passing a test then failing a test? Didnt Silva pass a test then fail then pass the one after that? I thought that was completely normal.
    I'm going from memory here, but I think he failed two OOC tests but passed the fight night test the following month.


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    #1433
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Mellor wrote: »
    If Jones passed 5 tests in a month, and failed a 6th. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that it was anabolic drugs.
    In Jones' case I thought he passed earlier in the year, and failed a random test in early June. It's the proximity of a clean tests to the failed one that stands out. Not clean tests earlier in the year.



    I'm going from memory here, but I think he failed two OOC tests but passed the fight night test the following month.

    Jones is one of the most tested fighters in the UFC.


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    #1434
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    By the way, Mir passed tests within a few days each side of his failed test, and the metabolite levels in his failed test were at a level where it would have been impossible for him not to fail the first test, yet pass the first test he did...


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    #1435
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    Jones is one of the most tested fighters in the UFC.

    I thought that was Conor?


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    #1436
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    By the way, Mir passed tests within a few days each side of his failed test, and the metabolite levels in his failed test were at a level where it would have been impossible for him not to fail the first test, yet pass the first test he did...
    Didn't realise he had a passed test before hand. if he was dehydrated for the failed test it may have increased his levels enough to get caught. (assuming it was urine and not blood). But Mir failed for a steroid. That's been confirmed at this point.

    Everything with Brock is speculation, it could still be anything on the list.
    The asthma story didn't come from him so could be complete bollox, I'd imagine he knows what he popped for at this stage.


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    #1437
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Mellor wrote: »
    I thought that was Conor?

    I didn't claim anyone was the most tested.


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    #1438
    Subcomandante Marcos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Brock knew what he popped for the second the told him he had a potential violation. They give him the substance and the levels, the time of the test, how long between sample taking and processing, where it was processed, at what time, by who and how long the processing took. It's not like they just phone you and say "here, you pissed hot, want us to run the b sample?".

    If it was something that could be explained away with an inhaler, his management and lawyers would have issued a statement saying as much by now.


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    #1439
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,161 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »
    I didn't claim anyone was the most tested.

    Sorry, I missed the "one of" parts.
    Checked the history there, he was tested 3 times in Q2. Which is about normal for a known fighter. Brock, Cyborg, Woodley, Yoel and Chad all tested 4-6 times.

    Speaking of Chad, was the substances he popped for ever released?


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    #1440
    finglashoop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭finglashoop


    Mellor wrote: »
    But we don't know the date GSP will return, USADA doesn't, UFC doesn't etc.
    I'm asking if we should be testing him now, in mid July, based on his indication that he'll return? As you suggested above.

    No,but they targetted lesnar specifically for 200 not 202 of 205..

    On gsp, he should notify usada and enter the pool himself if he intends to fight so he can have four months testing under his belt and is free to compete after that four month period. Same for anyone, barring a signing at short notice to step in ( i think there are ufc fighters on roster without signing outside company but must be refusing short notice fights).


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    #1441
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,707 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Depp wrote: »
    problem with inhalers is theyre usually a bronchodilator which essentially allows your lungs to absorb more oxygen, which on healthy lungs is a big advantage so it makes sense, think they have some sort of anabolic effect aswel but im not too sure

    Long time ago I was told I have asthema
    But it's ok here is a leaflet explaining that loads and loads of athletes have asthema and are really good
    Turns out if you want to get ahead step one was be registered as an asthema sufferer


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