UFC 200 Event Thread - Cormier v Jones 2

finglashoop

Depp wrote: »

thats an assumption, not a fact. the contract was only signed the friday before 199, how could they put him in the testing pool before hed signed a contract?

They told hunt to stay ready. So they had the fight in mind. Which means they are negotiating with brock. Which means he should notify usada of his intention to compete. Even if he ends up not fighting.

Depp

Jones via Submission

finglashoop wrote: »

They told hunt to stay ready. So they had the fight in mind. Which means they are negotiating with brock. Which means he should notify usada of his intention to compete. Even if he ends up not fighting.

when that came out it was as a replacement in case cain got injured, while it looks suspicious you cant say for definite that was the plan.

anyway even if that was the case keeping him off the testing list would be essential for secrecy, no point planning a big shock reveal if hes been on a public list for 4 months, http://www.usada.org/testing/results/athlete-test-history/

Gamebred

Depp wrote: »

thats an assumption, not a fact. the contract was only signed the friday before 199, how could they put him in the testing pool before hed signed a contract?

Wrong,he was added to the roster well before 4 weeks ago,may 22nd to be precise.

Depp

Jones via Submission

Gamebred wrote: »

Wrong,he was added to the roster well before 4 weeks ago,may 22nd to be precise.

you mean when they put him and shane carwin on the website? :rolleyes:

finglashoop

Depp wrote: »

when that came out it was as a replacement in case cain got injured, while it looks suspicious you cant say for definite that was the plan.

anyway even if that was the case keeping him off the testing list would be essential for secrecy, no point planning a big shock reveal if hes been on a public list for 4 months, http://www.usada.org/testing/results/athlete-test-history/

So a reveal is more important than integrity.

Occams razor. The simplest answer is he is a massive drugs cheat who ufc facilitated

riffmongous

finglashoop wrote: »

Hunt signs up based on the understanding his opponent will be clean as per usafa.

UFC conveniently arranged brock in such a way that his fight would be over over before results came back.

He seemed pretty certain before the fight lesnar was juiced up, so I don't really believe that. This was just an exhibition fight so he didn't have to take it, he did it for the paycheck which he got. Now fine lesnar heavily for cheating and damaging the sport but giving the money to Hunt, I don't think so

Gamebred

Depp wrote: »

you mean when they put him and shane carwin on the website? :rolleyes:

If they knew there was potential he would fight USADA shoulda been notified,its not even debatable its one big stick up not sure what im arguing or your defending facts are hes a steroid head that couldnt keep clean for a single month,cheating coward like the rest of them who have popped.

Depp

Jones via Submission

Gamebred wrote: »

If they knew there was potential he would fight USADA shoulda been notified,its not even debatable its one big stick up not sure what im arguing or your defending facts are hes a steroid head that couldnt keep clean for a single month,cheating coward like the rest of them who have popped.

its not that simple, you cant test an athlete that hasnt signed just on the fact that he potentially could, if they could do that the ufc could ring up and say 'here, gamebred rolls he could potentially fight, get round his with a collection kit'. since this test came out I havent said he wasnt guilty, was just saying that this being a big conspiracy to get a steroid user into the ufc is completely ridiculous

finglashoop

Depp wrote: »

its not that simple, you cant test an athlete that hasnt signed just on the fact that he potentially could, if they could do that the ufc could ring up and say 'here, gamebred rolls he could potentially fight, get round his with a collection kit'. since this test came out I havent said he wasnt guilty, was just saying that this being a big conspiracy to get a steroid user into the ufc is completely ridiculous

April 3rd was , according to the wwe own statement, the last time he performed for them.

Lesnar had to negotiate with ufc and wwe. Once they start usada should be notified. So it is case of getting a steroid user into the ufc and avoid usada. People said it at the time it was announced so its no surprise

mdwexford

So if a guy is in talks with the UFC about potentially signing a deal then Usada should be informed and have the right to knock their door at 5am and test them. Even though the guy might never fight for the UFC.

That would be mental carry on.

Depp

Jones via Submission

finglashoop wrote: »

April 3rd was , according to the wwe own statement, the last time he performed for them.

Lesnar had to negotiate with ufc and wwe. Once they start usada should be notified. So it is case of getting a steroid user into the ufc and avoid usada. People said it at the time it was announced so its no surprise

usada cannot legally test an athlete whos is not an official competitor in a sport and until the pen was put to paper brock lesnar was not an official ufc competitor, its really that simple

Gamebred

Yep hence why they didnt sign a contract till as late as possible,contriving to pervert an equal playing field essentially.

Depp

Jones via Submission

Gamebred wrote: »

Yep hence why they didnt sign a contract till as late as possible,contriving to pervert an equal playing field essentially.

if that was the case they could have signed the contract the friday of ufc 200? could also be that the negotiations took a long time between the ufc and the wwe maybe? Occams razor, as finglashoop so eloquently put it

Gamebred

Depp wrote: »

if that was the case they could have signed the contract the friday of ufc 200? could also be that the negotiations took a long time between the ufc and the wwe maybe? Occams razor, as finglashoop so eloquently put it

You are being pedantic now,promote a fight a day out ffs,you believe wwe test their actors,anyways im out the delusion in here is strong.

Depp

Jones via Submission

Gamebred wrote: »

You are being pedantic now,promote a fight a day out ffs,you believe wwe test their actors,anyways im out the delusion in here is strong.

wwe testing is well known to be a joke, when did i say it wasnt?

Mellor

Depp wrote: »

other problem I have with usada, they can test jon jones b sample in a day, but his a sample takes three weeks?

There's a simple reason for that.
The A sample is tested against the full WADA panel. All the possible PEDs an athlete could be on, it's a big list and involves a lot of tests I'd imagine. But the B sample is only tested for the substance he failed for.

Mellor

finglashoop wrote: »

Lesnar had to negotiate with ufc and wwe. Once they start usada should be notified. So it is case of getting a steroid user into the ufc and avoid usada. People said it at the time it was announced so its no surprise

I felt he was on the juice, I was highly critical of the notion that WWE testing meant he was clean, or that he was always that size.
But the idea that USADA should testing fighters in talks is miles off the mark. Whereabouts, 5am house calls etc. That sort of invasiveness can't happen without a contract.

Should USADA be testing GSP now? What about Carwin, or Fedor? Where do you draw the line?

Gamebred

Mellor wrote: »

I felt he was on the juice, I was highly critical of the notion that WWE testing meant he was clean, or that he was always that size.
But the idea that USADA should testing fighters in talks is miles off the mark. Whereabouts, 5am house calls etc. That sort of invasiveness can't happen without a contract.

Should USADA be testing GSP now? What about Carwin, or Fedor? Where do you draw the line?

Simple,dont sanction fights without being in the pool for 4 months,dont gotta test them all but let them think they could be tested anytime,would be an improvement.

martyos121

Gamebred wrote: »

Simple,dont sanction fights without being in the pool for 4 months,dont gotta test them all but let them think they could be tested anytime,would be an improvement.

It's completely impractical though. They can only test the fighters signed to UFC contracts and awaiting a fight or else it's a blatant waste of resources. Nobody makes a big deal of guys who are signed to the UFC from other promotions and get booked for a fight in a couple of months time, even though the same exemptions (or whatever it is in their circumstances) would apply to them essentially. Bellator's drug testing programs for example are light years behind what USADA are doing, some of which probably wouldn't be too far off WWE's sorry attempt at it.

Expecting USADA testing for every fighter simply in talks with the UFC is just plain ridiculous and as I mentioned above, a waste of resources, even with your stipulation.

Gamebred

martyos121 wrote: »

It's completely impractical though. They can only test the fighters signed to UFC contracts and awaiting a fight or else it's a blatant waste of resources. Nobody makes a big deal of guys who are signed to the UFC from other promotions and get booked for a fight in a couple of months time, even though the same exemptions (or whatever it is in their circumstances) would apply to them essentially.

Expecting USADA testing for every fighter simply in talks with the UFC is just plain ridiculous and as I mentioned above, a waste of resources, even with your stipulation.

Id be happy to see brock not fight or any other late minute fighter signed,better safe than sorry,either do it properly and make it a level playing field or let it go back to a free for all.

Mellor

Gamebred wrote: »

Simple,dont sanction fights without being in the pool for 4 months,dont gotta test them all but let them think they could be tested anytime,would be an improvement.

Which would mean you can't book for less than 4 months in advance. If that's the rule, fine but you'd have to treat everyone that way. Vannatu the other night, or Khabib's opponent for example weren't in for 4 months.

Short notice fighters was never an issue before this. Nobody once complained. That rule would have meant Brock was tested 4 months earlier. But it would have also meant 10 or so fighters never got a shot.

Gamebred

Mellor wrote: »

Which would mean you can't book for less than 4 months in advance. If that's the rule, fine but you'd have to treat everyone that way. Vannatu the other night, or Khabib's opponent for example weren't in for 4 months.

Short notice fighters was never an issue before this. Nobody once complained. That rule would have meant Brock was tested 4 months earlier. But it would have also meant 10 or so fighters never got a shot.

No problem missing the odd fight if it means someone head doesnt get pounded in by a cheat like Brock,its an issue now because they are trying to promote USADA and a clean sport,you either do it 100% or dont do it,make it a 2 month window or let fights supple blood if they are signed test the blood from 2 months ago,something can be done.

Mellor

Gamebred wrote: »

Id be happy to see brock not fight or any other late minute fighter signed,better safe than sorry,either do it properly and make it a level playing field or let it go back to a free for all.

But it didn't ensure a level playing field. A fighter can have been on the juice whether he's signed 4 months early or 1 month early. He'd have to cycle off sooner, but it in no way makes him clean.

martyos121

Gamebred wrote: »

Id be happy to see brock not fight or any other late minute fighter signed,better safe than sorry,either do it properly and make it a level playing field or let it go back to a free for all.

No it isn't better safe than sorry, a two year ban should be more than enough to deter anyone from cheating, if it still happens then, it's just one of those things that has to be dealt with. The sport is only going to decline in popularity if they go along with your idea, you can't assume every newly signed fighter is a cheater.

Before I say anymore on the subject, I'll wait and see what Brock popped for in the first place, everyone is assuming the worst and based on the eye test probably with fair reason, but seeing as he passed a number of tests before that one he failed, it isn't a foregone conclusion that he's off his tits on PEDs. Any tests he had after the one that he failed are going to be crucial in all of this.

Mellor

Gamebred wrote: »

No problem missing the odd fight if it means someone head doesnt get pounded in by a cheat like Brock.

If Brock was on steroids for last year, and cycled off for the pool 4 months ago, then he's still be a cheat. What you are suggesting doesn't stop anybody cheating. What would it have changed here?
Vannatu doesn't fight, Brock still fights.

martyos121 wrote: »

Before I say anymore on the subject, I'll wait and see what Brock popped for in the first place, everyone is assuming the worst and based on the eye test probably with fair reason, but seeing as he passed a number of tests before that one he failed, it isn't a foregone conclusion that he's off his tits on PEDs. Any tests he had after the one that he failed are going to be crucial in all of this.

It wouldn't be the first time somebody popped were it was "obvious he was on steroids" all along.
But the actual failure was a non-anabolic. It's extremely rare of course. But the fact he hasp added 5 tests was unusual.

Gamebred

Mellor wrote: »

If Brock was on steroids for last year, and cycled off for the pool 4 months ago, then he's still be a cheat. What you are suggesting doesn't stop anybody cheating. What would it have changed here?
Vannatu doesn't fight, Brock still fights.

Come on now 4 months off juice is a world of difference to 4 weeks.

finglashoop

Mellor wrote: »

I felt he was on the juice, I was highly critical of the notion that WWE testing meant he was clean, or that he was always that size.
But the idea that USADA should testing fighters in talks is miles off the mark. Whereabouts, 5am house calls etc. That sort of invasiveness can't happen without a contract.

Should USADA be testing GSP now? What about Carwin, or Fedor? Where do you draw the line?

If gsp signals intent to fight again they should start to test him straight away. Lesnar officially signed a contract four weeks out so thats 12 weeks testing time he avoided. Then subsequently failed a test where results are only out after the event is done..

He intended to compete long before he signed the contract, that is when he goes in the pool but dana et al lied about it.

martyos121

Mellor wrote: »

It wouldn't be the first time somebody popped were it was "obvious he was on steroids" all along.
But the actual failure was a non-anabolic. It's extremely rare of course. But the fact he hasp added 5 tests was unusual.

There's been some talk (of which the sources are dubious at best) that what might've failed him the test was use of an inhaler for reactive airway disease (a precursor to asthma). It could be something as simple as that, or something equally as innocuous, or indeed something far more serious. The thing is we just don't know yet and throwing these strong accusations against him so soon might make fools of people down the line.

I really hope it's something that was taken mistakenly or without knowledge of it being on the banned list, but it's just impossible to say. The fact that he passed 5 tests before the failure makes me a little hopeful though.

Gamebred

Yeah marty an inhaler will ya get your head out the clouds.

Depp

Jones via Submission

Gamebred wrote: »

Yeah marty an inhaler will ya get your head out the clouds.

Gamebred is actually jeff novitzkys online handle, sorry for outing you but we have to stop people doubting your expert knowledge. seriously though, until either brock or usada come out and tell us what he pissed hot for none of us have a clue, sure, brock put something into his body that was banned and thats inexcusable, but you cant hang a man without a jury. dont get it twisted brock definitely knows his way around an anabolic steroid but theres a very small chance that he passes three tests then fails the 4th if hes on anabolics, be interesting to see what the rest of the out of comp/in comp tests come back as