MAJOR SPOILERS: Matrix reloaded - confusing ?

the celtic tiger

jeeeeez! leave the guy alone! I thought the film was good, but in no way was it groundbreaking/phenomonal/philisophically-stimulating. Just good.

all the chap said was that there are better movies we could discuss. this is true. I mean, we're not talking about the movie of the century here. It's an honest to god action movie.

So, I say to you Tusky.......

why don't you grow a pair of balls...and stop being such a b1tch?


and I say to you Threadkiller......
Kill all the damn threads you want.

DeadBankClerk

In the first Matrix film, Neo's actions were goverened by the rules of the Matrix (gravity etc...). When Morpheus made him believe that these rules can be bent he was able to bend them.

In The Matrix Reloaded the Architect tells neo that Zion is a program, just like the Matrix is. Then Neo assumes that the rules can be bent, and indeed they can - He stops the sentinals.

I assume that in the next film Neo will break free from the Zion level of the program into some level X. In X Neo will be bound by the rules of X unless he believes that there rules can be broken.

No matter how many levels of recursion Neo escapes from, he can never know what is reality.

This is why I didn't like the second film. The plot seems very tacked on to the end of the first film. The first film was a complete fictional unit. It was a story that ended. With the plot of the new films they have set themselves up for an unlimited ammount of sequels.

"Marty, You've got to come back with me!"

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Tusky

Originally posted by the celtic tiger
jeeeeez! leave the guy alone! I thought the film was good, but in no way was it groundbreaking/phenomonal/philisophically-stimulating. Just good.

all the chap said was that there are better movies we could discuss. this is true. I mean, we're not talking about the movie of the century here. It's an honest to god action movie.

So, I say to you Tusky.......

why don't you grow a pair of balls...and stop being such a b1tch?


and I say to you Threadkiller......
Kill all the damn threads you want.

thats not all he said, thats just the part i quoted.... and its not just directed at him its directed at all eejits who post here



[EDIT] : DAVE AND DBC USE SPOILERS

Mark

I agree with Tusky.

ThreadKiller- Enough with the attention whoring. This thread is focusing on one of the most popular movies in years, and we dont need the obligitory "OMG MATIRX IS T£h GHEY FFS"

Yes youre intitled to your opinion, but when you dont back up your arguments and just spam wildly, its a little hard to hold any patience with you.

I present to you the ultimate Matrix spoiler: It's only a movie & a movie which has to spend more on effects to keep the nerds happy than on cast & crew isn't really that good

Har har. Hilarious. Now that youve gotten it out of your system would it kill you to stop bitching until you have something to say.

Tusky

Heres another theory ...

most ppl have been saying that zion is a matrix in a matrix designed to keep the ppl who wont except the matrix happy....

WHAT if Zion is actually outside the matrix and the ppl are being let live so that they can EXTRACT the people who wont accept the matrix, this means that the matrix does now know who wont accept the code and therefor has to use outside people to extract them....allthough it doesnt exsplain how neo manipulated the matrix and stoped the sentinals BUt it does exsplain if you think back to the first film....

remember when neo was detatched and the sentinal didnt kill him ? why was that....think ab00t it

weemcd

the guy who tried to kill neo with a nife on zion, was on the ship that rescued the nabacanezer crew??? rite, and the person lying oposite to neo on the bed was mr. smith with a beard rite??? what happened to they guy that was fascinated with neo, what did neo do to make him so obsessed with him, it says he saved him from something. so was that event in one of the animatrix epesodes?? im still confused about the film in places

DeadBankClerk

Originally posted by Tusky
[EDIT] : DAVE AND DBC USE SPOILERS

KEVIN SPACEY IS KEISER SOSE

DeadBankClerk

Originally posted by weemcd

and the person lying oposite to neo on the bed was mr. smith with a beard rite???

Was it not the bloke from the first matrix who cut a deal with Agent Smith to be put back into the matrix in return for allowing Neo to be captured by Agent Smith?

weemcd

cypher?

hacktavist

Thats what I thought too dbc.
But we saw him die in the first one.
Can someone who saying its agent smith explain why its him?

The_Bullman

Agent smith caught up with the lad who was trying to leave the matrix by the phone. Then he infected him, then he left the matrix and went back to his ship.

Later on he was going to kill neo, and, also, he wanted his captain to volunteer to join morpheus.

Tusky

Originally posted by weemcd

the guy who tried to kill neo with a nife on zion, was on the ship that rescued the nabacanezer crew??? rite, and the person lying oposite to neo on the bed was mr. smith with a beard rite??? what happened to they guy that was fascinated with neo, what did neo do to make him so obsessed with him, it says he saved him from something. so was that event in one of the animatrix epesodes?? im still confused about the film in places

As your regards of what he saved him from....

I think Neo must have got your man outa the matrix...thats why hes happy and says "yah saved me" etc etc

and as for your DBC...

KEVIN SPACEY IS KEISER SOSE

you cant ruin the end of jurasic park for me, ive allready seen it hah !

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

rabbitinlights

spoiler: I think zion a is a seperate "matrix" and that smith has moved from the original matrix via that phone call when he caught up to those two guys and killed the second one? he then took on the look of the second one in Zion and tried to kill neo. How could a program transfer from the matrix to the really real world?.

Goodshape

Bah... and here I was dicussing this stuff in the 'good or bad' thread.

Anyway, really need to see it again after reading this thread,

I thought Neo took the other (non-trinity saving) door, and then surprised everyone by compleating both tasks (task one, erm whatever that was, and then speed flying to save trinity).. no?

Also, I didn't hear the architect say anything about Zion being a part of or another matrix. I think some people were hearing what they wanted to hear (someone already posted what the architect said).

Personally, I do think it's a matrix within a matrix, and I think neo has figured this out. But not from what the architect told him. (I explained my thoughts more in the 'good or bad' thread... read them there if you want)

How very exciting whatever happins. I just hope part three doesn't surprise us all by being compleatly unsurprising.

drjolt

'reloaded' is a synonym from 'rebooted'.

If the current revolution has only been going for 72hrs, and if this is
the sixth matrix, then the machines have only been in control for 18 days.

Wasn't the M/F ratio in the council roughly as described by The Architect?
Presumably each Zion Council is composed of the seed population chosen at each reload. If so, one of the Revolutions might be the general Zion
population revolting against the Council. The council leader's speech
to Neo on the engineering level seemed to indicate that he was the previous One.

On a different topic:

At one point, Morpheus says something to Link along the lines of "I don't know if I'd be here if I was in your situation". Was that explained at all?

GUI_XP

At one point, Morpheus says something to Link along the lines of "I don't know if I'd be here if I was in your situation". Was that explained at all?

he was friends with tank and doozer who were killed in matrix 1..

also they were brothers of his girlfriend/wife

actually tank was written out that he was killed in matrix 1..

he actually got 2 big for his boots and demanded too much money for 2 and 3
so brothers gave him back of the hand :-)

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

GUI_XP

Dave..
offically i read he wanted too much money!

i read that on boards here on another thread..
but never got any real foundation for it..

u got a url for it?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

hacktavist

Dave do you have a script for the matrix 2?
How did you get the speach the architect made?

PyjamaMan

was a fecking unbelievable film, im still thinking about it 4 hours after seeing it, i need to see it again after reading this thread tho u bastids, another £10 down the drain =D

Goodshape

http://www.boycottthematrix.com/ has some info about Marcus Chong (Tank).

We are advocating downloading, boycotting, and/or participation in a letter-writing campaign to oppose the verbal harrassment, character assasination, and eventual arrest of Marcus Chong ("Tank" of The Matrix) during failed salary negotiations by the Wachowski Brothers and Joel Silver, producers of the Matrix sequels.

I think the offical explenation is that he asked for too much money. Sounds like there's more too it than that though. He's now sueing Warner Bros. or something.

Diabolus

Well heres my 2 cents *spoilers*

The Oracle is a program. She has seen the destrusction of Neo and Zion time and time again. That is how she knows everything before Neo does. It makes sense? Then I believe the concept of Zion being inside another Matrix is the obvious answer. But if the Matrix is "Reloaded" an he has to choose certain ppl does that not mean that the rest of the ppl dont exist? Trinity dies and Neo brings her back even though it says carrier signal lost on the screen. Neo merely died and was reborn in the original because the architect wanted him to live. Ironically the "one" the saviour of the human race is the key to its destruction.

daveg

Originally posted by patch69
yes.......but what a blowout!! :eek: It's a shame the twins main trick was already bettered by the shape-shifting in X2.
By the way, did anybody else hear that the twins were played by 2 reformed bbc diy experts? :ninja:

Indeed. According to Empire they were due to appear on changing rooms but decided on the Matrix

drjolt

Something I didn't get from watching the film was that it was set just 72 hours after the first (maybe I just wasn't paying attention).
http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/rl_interview_kym_barrett_2.html

Saruman

Saw it Saturday.. excellent film.. i got the Matrix within a matrix... well more specifically... What i thought from the first film and this was the following... The Matrix and Zion are 2 VR worlds... seperate to each other completely with the exception of hacking into the matrix from the Zion system. Agent smith wants the codes to Zion, so he can shut it down.. not as part of the program but for himself as he hates what he is and what he has to do.. he hates the matrix and believes with Zion completely shut down there will be no more need for the matrix and he will be free.

So they are seperate systems but both of them are VR.

One "possibility" but not likely is that Zion is in fact REAL but Neo is able to interact with the machines as maybe he is part machine himself, so maybe cybernetic? Off the wall but you never know!!

I like my next theory best though!! Lets say the history we know from the first film is correct... Humans gave birth to AI, we surpressed them (from animatrix) and they revolted... war ensued and in the end we scorched the sky to shut off their power!!! We thought we had won but turns out obviously we did not... or did we?? Lets presume that in fact the machines were unable to survive without the sun!!! So they did discover how to use us as batteries as such... however in order to create power we need to be plugged into the Matrix... they cant use us as batteries in each machine and we are not enough to power the machines... SO they transfer their programs into the matrix they set up and thats how they exist... as programs in a virtual world. Meanwhile outside the matrix the world over time has healed so when Neo frees everyone... they emerge into a world of sun and green grass etc!! No machines.

Lucutus

Originally posted by drjolt

Something I didn't get from watching the film was that it was set just 72 hours after the first (maybe I just wasn't paying attention).
http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/rl_interview_kym_barrett_2.html

All well and good, but didn't they say that they'd 'freed a certain number of minds within the last six months' in the movie?

'Supposedly' indeed, Ms Barrett.

Luc

PAPILLION

Originally posted by Saruman

So they are seperate systems but both of them are VR.

erm i recon that cant be, because unplugging from 1 left him in the outer 1, zion. as opposed to unplugging from one and plugging back into the other 1.
dunno. what d'ya think?