MAJOR SPOILERS: Matrix reloaded - confusing ?

Gaz

Ok , only read this if you have seen it otherwise it will ruin it for you , alot of people i seen this with found it confusing and as a result didnt like it , i thought it was fantastic but just want to make sure i understood it correctly.

Am i right in thinking ........

The robots need humans for power , so the matrix was created to keep the humans alive to generate the power but a small minority of people wont accept the matrix and get out to the "real world" and zion. But Zion is actually still part of the matirx , its just there so the small percentage of people who wont accept the matrix wont disrupt the whole system. There for the matrix is actually made up of the matrix we know and zion.

Ok am i right so far ? There have been six matrix systems and each time it gets to a point where the sysem needs to be "rebooted" in order to stop the zionists from disrupting the entire system, and neo is the one who is needed to reboot the system.

Thats what i got from the film , anyone else want to add or change that ?

one think im not sure on though ...

Is neo a real person or just a progamme ?

Hyzepher

Most of the questions that you ask can be answered from information taken from the first film - no spoiler here I haven't seen Reloaded.

Neo is a real person who was woken from a coma-like state. In this coma his body was generating power for the machines (The machines need power as they were initially built to use sunlight but the humans 'scarred' the sky to block the light). To keep Neo (and all other humans) from waking up etc. the Matrix was formed to trick them into thinking that they led normal lives.

Some humans who escaped the matrix (coma) or were born outside it, live in Zion (The last human city - deep beneath the earth). There goal is to disrupt the matrix and take back the world from the machines.

The reason Neo et al can perform special moves in the Matrix is because the matrix is a program and does not conform to the normal rules of Physics. All humans (in coma) in the matrix are confined to living within the contraints of the matrix and hence have limiting powers. The agents are machines that take human shape while in the matrix and can basically change anything to suit themselves.

Neo is just a normal guy outside the Matrix and cannot do anything special.

Hope this helps - anyone with a better handle can add to this.

Hyzepher

ObeyGiant

No offense, Hyzepher, but if you haven't seen Reloaded, then you really don't know what Darth Homer is talking about.

Darth Homer - I got the same reading from the film that you did.

As for your final question -

I'd say real. But I have absolutely no evidence to back this up, it's still 50/50 in my mind.

vibe666

You really need to have seen the second movie, or at least have an idea of the plot in it to comment on it Hyzepher. You completely missed the point of the first post.

Darth Homer: Yeah, that's pretty much it, with a few extras.

The story about the origins of the Matrix as told by Agent Smith to Morpheus in the first movie was pretty much correct, with a few differences.

The Architect created the Matrix so that humans would live out their virtual lives as batteries. Without stimulation the mind dies and the machines don't get any juice out of them defeating the point of farming them in the first place.

The problem was, that even with the Matrix consiting of something resembling the end of the 20th Century (the pinnacle of human history, apparently) the program was only 99% effective. To continue to exist humans need 'free will', and the matrix was created to give them the illusion of having that free will within the constraints of the system, but 1% of the population would not accept this 'reality' and attepted to break out of it.

Because of this the Architect created anothe rprogram within the matrix (Zion/The Real World) so that this 1% could have a more realistic impression of this 'free will', but Zion only contains them for so long before it must be destroyed/erased and then the whole system must be 'rebooted' with the architect using what he learned from the previous matrix to make the new one more perfect (to his way of thinking).

But to complete this reboot, the architect needs the basic code from The One to re-integrate into the system when it is restarted.

Neo etc. are all real people (apart from the Oracle who is a program designed to guide them on the 'correct' path to keep the whole system going for as long as possible) who are within the Matrix even when they are outside of it. Nobody has been outside of the matrix at all yet, only within a sub program inside the matrix, but from what I understand, that might well change in Revolutions (Hence the name, aside from being a word beginning with 'R').

So that's it for now, except for people who've got the game, who might have noticed a little cut scene in there:

Movie clip/extra: Scabbly old guy in a subway/basement type thing, talking to Niobe just after they rescue Axel:

(Paraphrasing)
Old Guy: 72 Hours
Niobe: What?
Old Guy: That's how long Zion lasted last time.
Niobe: Who are you?
Old Guy: Just a casual observer.

This tends to indicate that the timeframe in the Matrix/Zion is distored compared to reality (real reality), because the whole storyline has gone on for much longer than that already in the movies.

So either:
* The history of Zion/The One/The Rebellion was implanted in the minds of the participants for the purposes of running the master program and the whole system only runs for 3 days or so.
* The rebellion part of the program once started was finished in 72 hours in the last incarnation of the matrix.
* or something else I didn't think of.

So it looks like it's all going to get a lot more interesting in the next one, but I really hope for gods sake they don't decide to turn it into the whole Dallas Bobby Ewing waking up the the shower/the whole thing was just a horrible dream thing because after all this, it would really be taking the p*ss out of all us faithful fans.

Hyzepher

Point taken - apologies.

Hyzepher

Gaz

Hyzepher wait untill you have seen reloaded , you will understand my post better when you have seen it.

Right so i get it ! Excellent story , cant believe some of the reviews ive been reading ...

vibe666

they always pan the good ones. trying to make themselves look all clever and intelligent by looking down on movies like this. basically they mock what they don't understand.

human nature, what can you do!

BTW, I didn't see it yet, I'm just a b*stard for wanting to know everything ASAP all the time.

Spock

I read the plot of the movie before i went to see it and as a result i haad no difficulty understanding it what so ever, go to it a second time and maybe it will become clear

GUI

the matrix reloaded script is brillant imo..
it takes thinking at time, rememebering what you learned in the first movie, but taken into account what u have been told in the 2nd movie..


that film ****en rocked lads..
go see it!

if u dont understand it

go see it again..
listen more closely to the dialog.

its the philosophical(Spelt incorrectly, couldnt be arsed spell checking it :-) dialog that makes the matrix 1 and 2 more then an action movie

jesus_thats_gre

The film means 100 times more if you have a farily high level understanding of computing and so on. While the story makes sense even if you dont, having an understanding of what an agent actually is and so on really drives the film home.

Alot of muppets dont seem to like the film, this is because they genuinely dont understand it. Does anyone agree?

GUI

DONT READ IF U AINT SEEN RELOADED YET
_________________________________

i completely agree

backdoor (to anyone who doesnt understand a software concept such as this)

people and the matrix

are like objects accepting parameters ..


like ppl still like it cause its action sequences are just out of this world..

but more puter orientated ppl, the more appreciation and enjoyment they will get out of this film..

i can imagine alot of ppl would have been lost with the architects inside track of the matrix program

totally agree man

Draco: use spoilers you twat

Shinji

Yes, a lot of the people whinging about it genuinely didn't understand it - which I find laughable. Christ, if Keanu Reeves can understand it, how difficult can it be?

I saw this in a cinema in Hollywood with 1,996 Americans and three other Europeans. The yanks cheered through all the fight scenes (which is fine, I confess to the odd "w00t" when a particularly satisfying iron bar blow to the face was struck!), and then talked to each other and fidgeted through the talking scenes. No bloody wonder they didn't understand it!

The philosophical exposition scenes in the movie are extremely clever and well-written; they were superbly well acted by the three characters who had to carry them (

Morpheus, the Oracle and the Architect, and to a lesser degree the Merovingian

). There's some mind-bending stuff there to get your head around, but it's all explained clearly and fairly simply - anyone who genuinely doesn't understand it wasn't paying attention. Anyone who thinks it's a rubbish plot either wasn't paying attention, or has their head up their backside and is desperate to prove how clever and cool they are. Tossers

GUI

GUI pats Shinji on the back, respect brother couldnt have said it better

i just dont want ppl dissing this film because they aint got the attention span or the understanding what is exactly going on!

fisty

I disagree with what you drew from the matrix: reloaded.
Watch it again.
Think Debugging.

Shinji

By the way, I'm entirely convinced that Neo only took the first door at the end of the movie because Keanu was still trying to work out the plot of Speed and hadn't realised there were actually two doors. When the Architect finished talking, I fully expected Neo to go "What.... you mean there's a bomb? On the bus!?" and run out the door in a panic...

ObeyGiant

Originally posted by ObeyGiant
As for your final question -

I'd say real. But I have absolutely no evidence to back this up, it's still 50/50 in my mind.

Actually, I just found some evidence to back this up..

The Architect: "I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human."

wolf359

I've seen reloaded and I could'nt fully understand the ending, untill I read Homer's post and I must say it clears a lot of confusion up. Thanx Homer. I think it's a brilliant story line and I can't wait untill Revolutions.

banbutcher

ok first off the film frickin 0ned!! a tad bit confusing but will soon fix that by goin to see it a few more times!!

also

whats the deal with noe and the sentinals?? is it coz they are still in a sub program of the matrin thet he was able to stop em??

the virus twins were also quite good aswell!!!

Gaz

Yeah banbutcher you got it

Neo is now the only one that knows everyone is still inside the matrix so he was able to use his powers

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

PAPILLION

saw the film last night.

to any1 that hasent make sure you sit through to the end of the credits to see the trailer for revolutions.

by the way.

am I right in reading Agent Smith as a corrupt program/virus who is infecting the matrix (replicating himself)trying to destroy neo in doing so destroying the matrix, because of his hatred for humans and the way they smell (ref film 1)despite the additional downfall of the machines he will achieve his own personal goal at least, of eradicating the humans. which is another problem for the architect and adds to the need for the reeboot,visavi if the agent kills neo then the matrix will be fecked. it was a nice touch the way neo was talking to the leader of zion at the engineering deck, coming to the realisation that machines need them and they need machines.

Now that neo knows that they are still in the matrix is the next one going to basically see the battle spread to zion with him bending reality and eventually the humans take over the matrix instead of beating it. or will they strive to get out, or will they change our perceptions once again.

last thing, the profecy still is coming true, despite what the film told us about neo's path and all, he had to come to the realisation that zion was part of the matrix as this was the only way they have to beat the machines from within. ref neo stopping a bunch of sentinals at the end.

oooo the 2 ghost guys were very cools aswell. plus the explinations of ufo's and ghost, greeat. and that truck crash and when the agent jumped onto the car and buckled it and and and and and....

my head is going to pop.

Good movie very good, when is revolutions coming out? summer?

GUI

november 3rd or 7th

ThreadKiller

Saw it last night... confusing isn't the word... confusinc x 10 may be the word.

Great effects but nothing as effective or groundbreaking as the first one.

The fight scene - messy, like watching a PS2 game

best thing about going to see it... they show T3 trailer at the start

PAPILLION

would that be a ps2000 u are playing?
if so where can i get one.

i thought that it was class

SickBoy

Maybe I'm picking this up wrong but I have a theory.

This is a spoiler and I don't know how to hide it like the others so don't read it!! Can a mod make it hidden please?

When Neo was running from the sentinels at the end he stopped and said "Wait, something has changed" and then he brought them down with powers he would use inside the Matrix. So to me it seems that instead of the crew getting back to Zion as they know it, somehow the Matrix has inserted them into a world that even though looks like Zion isn't actually Zion.

vibe666

I hope that fight scene is better then the CGI one in Blade 2. That one kinda sucked.

Oh, well, I guess I'll find out on Sunday. Funny thing is, cos I'm such a nosy b*stard I probably know more than most of the people who've seen it (certainly more than the idiots who didn't bother to listen to the plot and just slated it based on some very limited exposure to the plot as a whole due to their own ignorance).

I know I'm going to love it because I always enjoy complicated plotlines and stuff that makes you think about what you are watching.

I'd certainly class myself as a movie fan rather than just a movie-goer at any rate.

I wait with baited breath!

ThreadKiller

Wait all you like it's still gonna be disapointing

PAPILLION

Originally posted by SickBoy
Maybe I'm picking this up wrong but I have a theory.

This is a spoiler and I don't know how to hide it like the others so don't read it!! Can a mod make it hidden please?

When Neo was running from the sentinels at the end he stopped and said "Wait, something has changed" and then he brought them down with powers he would use inside the Matrix. So to me it seems that instead of the crew getting back to Zion as they know it, somehow the Matrix has inserted them into a world that even though looks like Zion isn't actually Zion.

to make a spoiler u have to type [spoiler*] at the start and [/spoiler*] (without the *s)

as far as zion is concerned.

zion is part of the matrix and always was, the reson neo turns and uses his powers against the sentinals is because he had just been informed by the architect of that fact. before he assumed like we did, that zion, and all of the underground tunnels were outside of the matrix not part of it. plus how else could an agent infect a guy and pass through.

vibe666

Agent Smith could still (in theory) infect someone in the real world the way he did.

The characters within the matrix are (paraphrasing morpheus from M1) An artificial/computer representation of their digital selfs. I.E. the computer form of the mind of the person in question.

They are uploading their consciousness into the matrix, and have to download it back again before they can leave (hence the whole rigmerole of the 'hardline' phones) otherwise if things got hairy in there they could just unplug themselves before anything bad happened.

Agent Smith infected Bane's (If I remember rightly) Avatar, i.e. his consciousness within the 'inner' matrix and then downloaded the infected consciousness back into Bane's body (bearing in mind that it's still just another avatar within a larger matrix, but like they say in the first one, all the laws of physics etc. still apply) thus infecting Bane with the Smith virus in the real (ok, not real, but for the purposes of this explanation) world, allowing him to operate outside of the inner matrix.

It's all very complicated, I think I need a cup of tea and a lie down.

Draco: And while you're at it, figure out how to use spoiler tags.

I did, I just forgot! Anyway, I didn't see the film yet either. Does that mean I'm spoiling it for myself?

K!LL!@N

Just saw Reloaded this afternoon.
Have to say i really liked it.
Just a couple of things though, small gripes really.
I'll spoiler them so as not to ruin it for anyone that hasn't seen the film.

Ok, first one: Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Neo have all of the metal implants removed from his body when he was first disconnected from the matrix? I distinctly remember a scene where they were pulled out with a pliars and dropped into a metal tray. If that's true, why did he have all those implants in his arms and back again?

Second: On the whole the effects were excellent. I thought the fight scene with the cloned Agent Smith's was excellent apart from a couple of close ups that were clearly CG. There were some other scenes where you could see Neo's face and it was obvious he was CG. Also some of the textures on his coat didn't look all that great. But i won't be too hard on them, it was still a hell of a lot better than CG i've seen in other films.

Killian

D-Generate

Saw it last night and it was indeed an amazing film. This year looks good for films

Anyway on to the film questions

Is the Matrix a sub programme of the Zion programme or is it the other way around?

Since it is possible to move great distances in The Matrix by using backdoors do you think it is possible to do the same in Zion since it is also a programme and could it be possible to switch from Zion to the Matrix programme without haveing to connect in to the Matrix?

If Neo decides to kill himself won't it screw up the improvement of the Matrix which was the reason for his existance, thus possibley saveing future generations from absolute control by the machines, kind of a Jesus thing going on.

The Architect says that each reboot they take X males and Y Females to populate the Zion, does this mean that they disconnect those people from the Matrix programme and put them back in to the Zion programme?

Finally, what do you think the real world looks like, perhaps the world featured in Zion?

Sorry about so many questions

Oh and I think I will go see it again this weekend.

PAPILLION

lol Dgen, your gonna have a melt down.

the question i want to know, and am going to have to wait for the answer to, is

are they going to try and escape into what ever is outside of the matrix or just conquer the matrix and have (as neo discused) the machines under their control. (as it shud be)
+ yeah i was wondering that too about the metal ports in neos bod. cheked the 1st film. isnt that a bit dissapointing that they would make a continuity mistake on something that important)

oh i dunno.

Jim

saw it this mornin, thought it was good, but first one was better.

the white ghosty guys were ****, much prefare the agents. not enough guns.

confusing?? no. not at all. i think papillion summed it up pretty well.

theres nothin to say that zion is a programme like the matrix, there may be another explantion to why neo can do the ****.

since neo decided to go back to the matrix to save trinity, doesnt that mean that all humans connected to the matrix are dead?

oh and just an argument im havin wit a mate.... he thinks that when the captain at the end says that "it was a massacre and theres only one suvivor", he is sayin that zion has been completly destoyed, i tried to tell him only a bit of the "amry" was massacred, but he wont believe me

Terminator

Jimeatsmenu

Zion is definitely within the matrix. There can't be any other explanation for neo's powers

Because he went thru the Trinity Door they will be dead in 24 hours unless he does something to stop it

Zion wasn't attacked. The captain is referring to the other ship which was attacked earlier on. Agent smith was on that ship and he's the only one who survived.

CivilServant

Well I just saw the film and after all the reviews I've been reading it was a fantastic film. The best film I've seen in a long time and definitely the best film of the year so far (come on revolutions).

The only way this film was going to be better was if it wasn't a pure action movie and I'm glad it wasn't. The plot actually adds a heck of a lot more the the storyline and changes the way you view the matrix altogether. I thought the trailers gave a lot of material away but in retrospect it didn't really, there's more to matrix than actions scenes.

I did hear stories of americans not even paying attention inbetween fight scenes, which was what Gladiator was like the second time around.

How can you have a decent rave when there are pools of molten lava around? lol

I only figured out that the entire world was in the matrix when Neo stopped the sentinals. And I suppose to compound that further how did he bring Trinity back from the dead? The mind cannot live without the body but obviously anything's possible in the matrix.

cartman

went ot see the film last night fu<kin rocked alright [only in my opinion there was too much smoochin']

anyways i didnt read through all the spoilers so this might have been already said..

i thought from the film that Zion was another matrix... A matrix inside a matrix and thats way Neo was able to stop them alien thingys.. i may be wrong but if u saw Zion had always a blue colour about it and the "Matrix" had a greeen colour if you look closely to when they were on the highway you'll see that all the cars and vehicles have a green sory of membrane about them so The Architect built a matrix inside a matrix and he was the only one "outside" the matrix..
aam i right? ye might have been talkin bout that i just read half the first page.. sorry:/

Zukustious

End of movie bit:

I think there's more to why he went through the trinity door. The architect said that there were six before him, six times has the war been fought, and six times has "The One" had to choose new people to make Zion. Going through the Trinity door didn't just save Trinity, it broke the repeated cycle of destruction creation, destruction creation. To stop history repeating itself again or something.

That might be way off the mark but it's just something that I thought of.

fisty

Spoiler:

Bruce Willis is a Ghost.

preytec

spoiler:

zion and the matrix are one, but i bet that there isn't any war between man and machine at all, and that the matrix was man made too, the programs that run it are only doing what man had told them to do in the 1st place, make a perfect world for man to live within computers, this was because man was running out of the earths resoures and had no other way to survie, so they built the matrix so mankind would live on, you see the programs are only doing what they've been programed to do, they don't really need man as much as we think, there are other ways to make power than keeping man kind alive.

HOPE I'VE DONE THE SPOILER THING RIGHT

ThreadKiller

OK I hope those that don't want to know you can resist, but my friend who's a cameraman give me the scoop on reloaded (& more importantly now since that's opened) revolutions, I present to you the ultimate Matrix

It's only a movie & a movie which has to spend more on effects to keep the nerds happy than on cast & crew isn't really that good

TacT

Spoiler

What about the fact that his experience was different from that of the other anomolies vis-a-vis, love. The architect tells him that there is nothing he can do to save trinity, yet he does and he revives her. So imo, doesn't this mean that he's broken more rules of the matrix that the architect previously thought impossible and that in turn this also gave him the power to do what he did through further self-realisation (of what the matrix was) combined with the power of love or some crap?

PAPILLION

threadkiller.
aren't you the bitter and cynical one.

if people want to enjoy a film and get more out of the experience by discussing it, then more power to them.

i didn't hear any1 bashing you because you said you thought that the best part about it was the T3 trailer which while good, will probably be in the end a disapointment. t1 and t2 were classics. but i have a bad feeling about number three.
look at godfather 1 2 and 3 3 wasn't great compared with the first 2.

anyway so it might be just a film. so what.

elexes

i have to agree with cartman . i believe the matrix is within a matrix not 2 programs side by side . ( could end up bing within 100 r so )

i didnt like the fight scean with the 100 smiths . thought it was very boring ( well considering it was in every add ) i will be going to it again on sunday to make sure i didnt miss anything

have to think of what i wana say fully im thinking of new things every time i write somthn down bbl

also in matrix 1 they could not remove all the bolts safly so key ones were left intact such as the one in the head

ThreadKiller

Originally posted by PAPILLION
threadkiller.
aren't you the bitter and cynical one.

Yes, I want my €15 & 2.5 hours back

Originally posted by PAPILLION

if people want to enjoy a film and get more out of the experience by discussing it, then more power to them.

Absolutley, but there's far better movies to discuss.

Originally posted by PAPILLION


i didn't hear any1 bashing you because you said you thought that the best part about it was the T3 trailer which while good, will probably be in the end a disapointment. t1 and t2 were classics. but i have a bad feeling about number three.
look at godfather 1 2 and 3 3 wasn't great compared with the first 2.

anyway so it might be just a film. so what.

That was my cynicism coming out.

It'll be good, & I'll go see it & I'll probably buy it, but it won't change my life, it's only a movie & as I said a movie that spends more on effects then cast or crew to impress, doesn't really impress...

I'd compare these movies to the likes of boy racers

They're loud, shiney & has go faster stripes but at the end of the day they're a dressed up Opel Nova

PAPILLION

thread.

Granted, thats your opinion. you are intitled to it.

its just i think you have the wrong thread.

you should be trying the reloaded good or bad thread?

not the matrix - confusing one.

which imho is a forum for discussion about the film. not repeated comments about how much of a waste of time it was.

here ill help you out a bit darling.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97004

and is it really necessary to quote, my message was just a couple of spots above yours. surely people can read up a bit?

ThreadKiller

I'm sure they could, but I just wanted to be sure I wasn't taken out of context, surely it's not upsetting you too much ?

If so I apologise (humbly)

PAPILLION

not at all.

just havin fun with ya.

so did you read the other thread?

Beobrand

I'm as cynical as the next man but I thought this web page was very interesting:

http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm

He has latched on to several of the ideas that I saw in the film. I also reckon that he has got the ending of the trilogy more or less right too.

Although what some people have said about the FX in the Matrix Reloaded is true (i.e overuse of bullet time coupled with some slightly dodgy virtual stuntmen), I felt that the story has gained momentum and depth, taking on the sort of epic proportions of the Wagner Ring Cycle or, dare I say it, Star Wars. This made the film more enjoyable for me, as the exposition in the first film seemed quite clunky.

I suppose the fact that I am into computers and have a healthy interest in religion and philosophy means that I am the perfect target audience anyway! Oh, and I like a good action flick too!

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Crowley-like nature of some of the philosophy (i.e. that when one manages to find one's true will, the power to do anything is at one's command).

Great film, and Threadkiller - take a valium or have a nice cup of tea...or maybe both. It will calm you down.

PAPILLION

realy interesting read. but it seems that he considers

the outside world to be seperate which helps his theory/analagy hold cohesion, mind you it also holds weight. the reason neo could stop the sentinals is because he is connected, not because zion is part of the matrix. and they let the few trouble makers escape so that they dont stay in and interfeer with the matrix. then wipe them out periodically.

oh ffs now im gonna have to watch it again to try and make my mind up.

*pop*

vibe666

ThreadKiller - Interesting nick. Why do they call you that then?

ThreadKiller

I developed a knack of killing...