How do you feel about T-Girls?

Stark

I know a lesbian girl from cork who was going out with a pre-op M->F transsexual for a while.

PhantomBeaker

To be honest, it happens when it happens.

As others have said you can't plan these things. Besides, (a friend and I were chatting about this a while ago) whenever anyone says that they do like trans people and aren't trans themselves we accuse them of being tranny-chasers, or some other less polite variant. And if there's one thing that trans people seem to avoid like the plague, it's tranny chasers - whether we call them that rightly or wrongly.

Can you say "shooting yourself in the foot"? :P (Not that there aren't people/tranny-chasers who you should avoid... but there are others we just tar with a certain brush that doesn't always work).

Interesting thought, innit?

Aoife

PhantomBeaker

Anyway, my own thoughts on whether I'd date a trans person again... I guess it's down to how comfortable they are in themselves.

If they aren't comfortable, or still getting used to life, dear god can it be a pain! I know I was... and trying to support someone through that is a nightmare. I'd like to think I'm marginally saner these days. But yeah, trying to reassure a trans person that yes you do HONESTLY find them attractive or that YES you really do like them and are not just doing it for their benefit.

It's quite the head-job. I can't say I'd blame anyone not wanting to get involved.

But then, attraction ain't always predictable. That's half the fun

Take care,
Aoife
(Who has her own issues as far as relationships go :P )

Rozie

Yet almost everything else you say demonstrates that you think the opposite

No, I think there are people, who are unfortunately very ignorant of transsexuality as a whole and what it would be like to be with one.

Anyway, Rozie, I really think you're approaching this from the wrong angle. You seem to be basing your responses mostly on Lioville's orginal response, which was perfectly reasonable in that it was his opinion. No-one is going to pretend that they're attracted to someone they're not attracted to for political correctness reasons.

THat's not what I'm claiming. I'm claiming that the exact *opposite* happens, that people don't want to be with a tranny because they've been told they're "icky". I've seen it happen, and looking at the sheer tiny numbers of people who would date TS, there must be a reasonable amount of people like that.

Otherwise, why is it that there are actually many transsexuals who keep their wives after transition, yet so few approach them afterwards? There is a huge contradiction there that people are shying away from.

Simply put, it's because they love them too much to abandon them because of their bodies, or their love encourages them to be open minded, despite them previously identifying as "straight" when I'm mainly criticising bisexuals. If everyone was more open minded about transsexuality, there would be a much larger "dating pool".

The Pre Op "Sexual attraction" argument doesn't hold because it's shallow that the person won't fall in *love* with the person and just wait a damn couple of years for them to get the Op, and the Post Op argument doesn't hold because a Post Op Woman is physically or mentally no different from the average woman, just with a different background, and some minor(usually these days as people start earlier) butch features(which a lot of lesbians like anyway...). So it really comes down to being silly, or judging based on minor appearance aspects.

Of course, if people were to believe trannies were all ugly and icky because Comedian X told them so, it would change their view.

And I was even being far using bisexuals rather than straight out straight guys or lesbians.

Rev Hellfire

I suppose ultimately people must be true to themselves, but I can’t help but feel in your in case you’re damned if you do and damn don’t. While the majority of posters on this board are a fairly broadminded and accepting lot I suspect the population is more like me, given to some homophonic tendencies but on the whole try to be accepting. But I can’t help but feel that a transsexual if not open right from the start (assuming they can pass as a women) would be seen as a deceit, the majority of men ( and the few women I spoken to on this topic) do not see a transsexual ( no matter how convincing ) as a woman, but this may be just the circles I frequent but I suspect this not the case. I’m curious though does the gay community as a whole accept the gender realignment.

I cann't help but feel you've come looking for answers you know you'll not get.

Rozie

the majority of men ( and the few women I spoken to on this topic) do not see a transsexual ( no matter how convincing ) as a woman

That really needs to change. It's not fair on us, and it's no skin off the "majorities" back just to be courteous to us once in a while.

You've no idea how ****ty it is that people basically refuse to see you as anything like yourself, and some of them are damn proud of it too, thinking they're protecting gender with their sacred bull**** morals

fortysixand2

Rozie wrote:

You've no idea how ****ty it is that people basically refuse to see you as anything like yourself, and some of them are damn proud of it too, thinking they're protecting gender with their sacred bull**** morals

I'd like to put in a point here about keeping a bit of perspective and how offensive it is to place your troubles so much higher than everyone else's when all you need to do is stop self-analysing, relax and make some friends; but given Rozie's blanket habit all over boards of taking friendly advice and somehow finding offence in it, I doubt it'll get through.

Rozie

fortysixand2 wrote:

I'd like to put in a point here about keeping a bit of perspective and how offensive it is to place your troubles so much higher than everyone else's when all you need to do is stop self-analysing, relax and make some friends; but given Rozie's blanket habit all over boards of taking friendly advice and somehow finding offence in it, I doubt it'll get through.

I don't know how hard I have it relative to other people, but transsexuality in specific is without a doubt more difficult than typical LGB matters as a whole.

fortysixand2

That's fine Rozie, I'm not going to deny that. But the point is YOU'RE DOING NOTHING TO TRY AND DEAL WITH IT. You come onto boards and post in the LGB boards or UL or wherever else and all you do is complain, self-analyse to no end, insult people and take unnecessary offence at other people daring to hold a different opinion to yours.

Rozie

I don't like when people say things like "take unnecessary offence at other people daring to hold a different opinion to yours.", I don't take offense at them because they're opinions, but because of how they affect me.

And what do you want me to do? I have next to no support, friends, anything.

fortysixand2

Once again you're missing the point of what's being said to you. If you stopped worrying so much about how these opinions affect you (when in reality if you took a bit of control of your own life and said "**** em" the effect would be almost nil) and just RELAXED and MADE some friends (NOT in terms of being a transexual, but in terms of being a HUMAN) then you'd have a MUCH easier time of things.

Rozie

(when in reality if you took a bit of control of your own life and said "**** em" the effect would be almost nil)

This is a complete and utter fallacy as there are some people who don't even approach me anymore because of transsexuality, no matter how I act.

The whole "Screw you I'm me" thing doesn't work very well when you have such an enormous social stigma, and doesn't really solve any problems in the long run, either.

fortysixand2

Did you even bother to read the sentence properly?

**** em means forget the ones who won't approach you. They're not worth it. Stop worrying so much about what people think of you and start focusing on what YOU think of you.

The whole "Screw you I'm me" thing doesn't work very well when you have such an enormous social stigma, and doesn't really solve any problems in the long run, either.

I take it you haven't bothered to try it then.

Rozie

fortysixand2 wrote:

Did you even bother to read the sentence properly?

**** em means forget the ones who won't approach you. They're not worth it. Stop worrying so much about what people think of you and start focusing on what YOU think of you.


I take it you haven't bothered to try it then.

How do you think I ended up with no friends in the first place...?

damien

Hmm_Messiah wrote:

btw is there a thread where rsynnott doesn't mention being the "too ugly gay guy" ?

You missed the fun we had at the Queer Beers playing the Rob thinks he's ugly drinking game. After each shot we smacked him across the head for being an eejit. Great fun. Lots of slaps.

Hmm_Messiah

darn And I was going to go!!!

but my adopted reclusive nature got the better of me .
Used frequently meet online "mates", mostly from old IRC rooms (where Ixoy often kept me up alnight -oops- up=awake), and had great fun doing the "scene" thing I guess, my ex was a little disco bunny

will get there (God I feel a Shelley from Corrie moment coming on)

Boston

Rozie wrote:

How do you think I ended up with no friends in the first place...?

I don't know, your personallity maybe. Your Bi-sexuals should love me crap really gets on my nerves. The notion that somehow people are born with a responsibility towards you. If all Transexual girls are like you, then I'd hassard a different guess as to why so few people want to be with them.

PhantomBeaker

I forgot to mention something in my previous posts - I hope this makes sense, given the hour, and my head is a bit fuzzy. So I might be a bit crude in explaining this.

Sometimes attraction is just an odd thing. Personally, I have very different tastes in men and women. But sometimes someone who I wouldn't originally find physically attractive can become insanely attractive once I actually get a feel for their personality (attractive in the physical sense - it's really difficult for me to describe how/why).

But sometimes people might like you despite them not being their type. I know one lesbian and a gay guy who are quite happy together. I've met one gay guy and his ftm boyfriend when the boyf was pre-everything and they were still madly in love. Neither is particularly odd - just special. I don't think any of them thought that they'd be in that situation, but they found themselves there and worked with it.

There are people out there and you can fit perfectly into their world view - some people have worlds where you can have a woman with a penis... and you can still be their girlfriend, if they found you attractive. There are some people who'll realise this, either because they've seen someone else's world where this is possible, or they just came to that conclusion somehow.

Best of all, some people just like you because you're you - you can be John, Christine, Cthulhu.. whatever, and what they're attracted to is You, not a boy, girl or tranny. They don't have a boyfriend or girlfriend - they have You. They're the really cool ones.

And the thing is, you won't know who they are by looking at them. Hell, they may not even know it themselves until they meet you. But I've had enough experience to know that they're out there.

Take care,
Aoife

Hmm_Messiah

Well done Phantom Beaker, its ueful that you can give individual examples as after all Rozie is well...an individual.

I still think that "there is other things going on " regarding Rozie that won't be resolved here; I mean she almost seems to be intentionally settig herself up for criticism and rejection.


Pax

LegacyUser

Huge admirer here. love the ultra femininity of tgirls.

Wibbs

I second the fair play to PhantomBeaker. IMHO a very enlightening series of posts. Kudos.

Now I know jack about this kinda thing but....Rozie, for what it's worth, having read and replied to your posts before, I think you need to get out of the whole everyone is against me thought process. I don't know how, but as others suggested maybe some professional help would be a plan. I've known too many people who reckoned they would find no one to love them for who they were. In many cases the reason was they believed this so much they pushed people away. The joke is they were straight, so had none of the difficulties you face, yet still thought themselves unloved. What I'm trying to get at is that they had all the advantages yet their mindset left them alone. IMHO you're seeing yourself as a transexual not a person.

I think I mentioned to you before elsewhere that I personally knew a transexual(m-f) who has found happiness(repeatedly by their account ). That was down to them having a very accepting nature both for her and the world around her. That makes all the diff.

Anyway, good luck with finding your own place in the world.


All this from someone so narrow minded that I can look through a keyhole with both eyes at once. Normal service will be resumed shortly. I'm off to motors to hit an engine with a hammer or something....

chump

Rozie wrote:

Be honest, would anyone here actually go out with a trannie? I can't imagine anyone doing so and it's really getting me down lately.

I read all the posts, very exciting really. But going back to the original question (above)...

I wouldn't go out with a T-girl.
Why?
I like womens bits, and tbh mens bits or chopped off mens bits rearranged wouldn't do it for me.

That's really what it comes down to.

I'm quite ignorant to the whole t-girl thing, but in essence I don't really "get it". It seems Rozie goes on and on about being accepted for what she is and yada yada yada, it's not just about sex blah blah... but then why the urge to try and change yourself so much?
At the end of the day it's never going to be "enough", so why not just stop & get on with your life and stop identifying yourself as a t-girl, and start identifying yourself as yourself, Rozie.

And, a really annoying question this will no doubt be...
How are you a transsexual? What makes you a t-girl? When did you make the transition? Did you feel this way since birth?
Sorry for the ignorant questions, but I'm just a regular Joe and these are the kind of questions we ask

Rozie

LiouVille wrote:

I don't know, your personallity maybe. Your Bi-sexuals should love me crap really gets on my nerves. The notion that somehow people are born with a responsibility towards you. If all Transexual girls are like you, then I'd hassard a different guess as to why so few people want to be with them.

Your "people shouldn't love you" crap really gets on my nerves.

And that last comment was highly unneccessary.

I like womens bits, and tbh mens bits or chopped off mens bits rearranged wouldn't do it for me.

But what's the difference, really? The truth is most gynacologists can't tell the difference, and this is fact. So why does it bother you?

Your body was made up of meat, fruit, vegetables, all sorts of things. Does it mean that you're a lump of beef with pinapple on top? No. Things change form all the time.

And TS breasts are generally "natural", just trigerred by hormones.

damien

I had this conversation with my mother.

"I don't like Cheese."
"Why?"
"I just don't, it's yuk."
"But you've never tried it."
"I still don't like it and no before you ask I don't want to taste it."
"Fair enough"

Rozie it seems to me that you won't accept that some people just don't want to be with T-Girls.

rsynnott

damien.m wrote:

"I don't like Cheese."
"Why?"
"I just don't, it's yuk."

And quite right, too.

Rozie

damien.m wrote:

I had this conversation with my mother.

"I don't like Cheese."
"Why?"
"I just don't, it's yuk."
"But you've never tried it."
"I still don't like it and no before you ask I don't want to taste it."
"Fair enough"

Rozie it seems to me that you won't accept that some people just don't want to be with T-Girls.

But it's not some! It's nearly all. There a VERY important difference there. If it was "some", the things everyone is saying would make perfect sense. But there are so few people who will. Not ONE person in this topic has said they will. Am I a bad person for thinking there might be a deeper reason to that?

If not one person in this forum would go out with a T-Girl, what do you think my chances are like? Honestly.

And that's a pretty stupid reason not to like cheese.

Plus, someone made a very offensive comment a while back, saying that transsexuals are men, in a "be all end all" of why some people won't go out with me, which is really mean as generally the PC thing to do these days is to accept TS people as who they are, not to mention he implied everyone thinks that way.

damien

Rozie wrote:

Not ONE person in this topic has said they will. Am I a bad person for thinking there might be a deeper reason to that?

Yes.

If not one person in this forum would go out with a T-Girl, what do you think my chances are like? Honestly.

I'm sorry but we already have reached our quota of people irrationally complaining that others won't go out with them, right Rob?

And that's a pretty stupid reason not to like cheese.

When did intelligence EVER factor into taste or likes or dislikes?

Plus, someone made a very offensive comment ... the PC thing to do these days is to accept TS people as who they are, not to mention he implied everyone thinks that way.

I think that was ignorant more than offensive.

Rozie

Yes.

I'll presume that wasn't serious.
If not; No.

I'm sorry but we already have reached our quota of people irrationally complaining that others won't go out with them, right Rob?

Oh sure, not a single person would go out with, not me, but the type of person I am, and I'm irrationally complaining that others won't go out with me.

When did intelligence EVER factor into taste or likes or dislikes?

The fact is that taste, for it to be logical, has to be based on past experience, if you've never tasted it, or anything like it, how can you have a taste for it? You can't.

rsynnott

Rozie wrote:

But it's not some! It's nearly all. There a VERY important difference there. If it was "some", the things everyone is saying would make perfect sense. But there are so few people who will. Not ONE person in this topic has said they will. .

Excuse me; I said I might under certain limited cirumstances.

Rozie wrote:

And that's a pretty stupid reason not to like cheese.

It's the reason I don't like cheese.

That and the smell.

Rozie wrote:

Plus, someone made a very offensive comment a while back, saying that transsexuals are men, in a "be all end all" of why some people won't go out with me, which is really mean as generally the PC thing to do these days is to accept TS people as who they are, not to mention he implied everyone thinks that way.

Ah, you have discovered the existance of stupid people. Congratulations.

damien.m wrote:

I'm sorry but we already have reached our quota of people irrationally complaining that others won't go out with them, right Rob?

Quite right. In fact, I have copyrighted the concept, and will sue anyone who infringes on it (I hope Smeggle doesn't sue me for stealing his concept of re-interpreting copyright law any way one feels like)

damien

Rozie wrote:

The fact is that taste, for it to be logical, has to be based on past experience, if you've never tasted it, or anything like it, how can you have a taste for it? You can't.

Ever licked a dog's balls?