Paying for Sex

Sparky

kittenkillers my new fck buddy

kittenkiller

Sparky_S wrote:

kittenkillers my new fck buddy

Damn right i am, stud! ;P

Eoin Madsen

kittenkiller wrote:

How many times do i have to answer all these questions with the words 'sad' & 'pathetic'?

As many times as it takes to make you stop and question why you think that. Open your mind.

kstanl

To a large extent, prostitution is flourishing more than it ever was, especially in Ireland. Most, if not all, young men need sex. It's like air, food and beer. They have to have it. The urge is too strong to resist and if the only thing standing between you and a shag is €50 or €100 or whatever, then you're going to do it - if you're the sort of person who can't get sex anywhere else. That doesn't necessarily mean you're sad or pathetic. Some guys might be ugly and have severe trouble getting laid. Others might be shy and decide that making an effort with increasingly aggressive, bitchy and fussy Irish women just isn't worth the degradation or embarrassment. I can completely understand why a lot of men use prostitutes.

Having said that, I wouldn't use one myself. I'm lucky enough not to have a problem with women but I do find that unless you flash your beemer keys, a lot of Irish women are too shallow to get their knickers off. Now THAT'S sad and pathetic! Obviously I'm not generalising Irish women but it's really starting to become a more noticable trait.

Also kittenkiller, you say that a lot of these women find screwing strangers repugnant. What I can't understand is why they can't get normal day jobs? Why don't they work in McDonalds or somewhere else and scrape by on minimum wage for a while before their situation improves? Like most normal people? It's because they're greedy and they don't mind getting humped by people they don't know for a few hundred quid a night. That is pretty sad and pathetic too, I must say. But who knows... maybe some of them even enjoy it :eek:

Granted, a lot of prostitutes are helpless addicts but who's to blame there? The guys using their services? You'll also find that many are non-addicts who are earning a few extra bob or are in college. It may sound odd but it's true. Apart from the sex-trade, the majority of women on the game are there BY CHOICE.

LadyJ

kittenkiller wrote:

Er...... Cuz it's something sad, repressed, lonely, can't-get-it-any-other-way, pathetic losers do!
How many times do i have to answer all these questions with the words 'sad' & 'pathetic'?

That is simply your opinion and that's fair enough but it doesn't mean that everyone should feel ashamed of things that you feel are shameful.

It's sex. It's not murder,not paedophilia,not rape. It's providing a service of pleasure.

Sparky

yes just the same way as going into a sex shop and purchasing a dildo, or porn mag in the newsagents its revolves around sex and you pay for them.

right?

AARRRGH

People should be free to do whatever they want with their money.

I know we live in a deeply repressed country, but paying for sex should not be an issue whatsoever.

In my mind, it's like asking if we should pay for our food (WHAT?? YOU DON'T GROW IT YOURSELF?? LOSER!!!)

When will people stop having issues with sex?

Kernel

In fairness, in many cases of prostitution the woman does not want to carry out the deed, but is forced into it - either by drug dependence or pimp. I wouldn't feel comfortable having sex with a prostitute if I felt that she really didn't want to be doing the deed, but instead was being forced to do it because of heroin addiction. There can also be factors of exploitation, young girls targeted and thrown into the 'life' at an early age. It's a vile and stinking industry at the end of the day, would you like to be a part of that? Would you like your sister or daughter to be a part of that?

That answers the question on the moral issue for 90+% of prostitution.

Kernel

Sparky_S wrote:

yes just the same way as going into a sex shop and purchasing a dildo, or porn mag in the newsagents its revolves around sex and you pay for them.

right?

A sex toy would be different. Porn (to a lesser extent) and prostitution are sex industries where people are debased and exploited, pissed on, **** on, cum faced, spit roasted etc. Buying yourself a desperate girl because she is so controlled by a pimp or a drug addiction that she is prepared to let you do anything to her, and debase herself even though she hates it, is a lot different to buying a harmless sex toy for use on yourself or your partner.

Unfortunately people in this modern age can't leave it at that, they want more excesses of everything, and porn is almost passe nowadays. I wonder in 100 years will paedophilia be what young people are trying to justify as being acceptable?

AH is getting like Humanities these days!

Civilian_Target

Kernel wrote:

Of course, but if you want a job done right, you go to a professional!

If you want a job done right - do it yourself

Seriously though - I can think of many many jobs that are more expoitative than being a hooker. The work isn't bad and the pay is fecking brilliant apparanty - €50 for half an hour's hard work! Think of all the poor Eastern European guys working on building sites for less than €5 an hour, the girls have it good!

Kernel

Civilian_Target wrote:

Think of all the poor Eastern European guys working on building sites for less than €5 an hour, the girls have it good!

A fiver an hour?!!? No way man, I know for a fact that these guys are raking in the cash on building sites. Contractors like GAMA may have been exploiting their workers, but they were caught out under labour laws anyway. I agree that many people stuck in the capitalist wage trap are being exploited (especially in third world economies), but the act of prostitution for most women is a horrible last resort that they don't want to be involved in.

NotMe

Civilian_Target wrote:

If you want a job done right - do it yourself

Haha yeah!

Eoin Madsen

Kernel wrote:

In fairness, in many cases of prostitution the woman does not want to carry out the deed, but is forced into it - either by drug dependence or pimp. I wouldn't feel comfortable having sex with a prostitute if I felt that she really didn't want to be doing the deed, but instead was being forced to do it because of heroin addiction. There can also be factors of exploitation, young girls targeted and thrown into the 'life' at an early age. It's a vile and stinking industry at the end of the day, would you like to be a part of that? Would you like your sister or daughter to be a part of that?

That answers the question on the moral issue for 90+% of prostitution.

No, it doesn't. All of the above are direct or indirect results of prostitution being illegal and unregulated. Drugs and human trafficking are two entirely different problems. And to be fair, unless a prostitute you're trying to hire is an oscar-winning actress it should be abundantly obvious if she doesn't want to be doing the job. I'd like to think that most people in that scenario would walk away.

Kernel

Eoin Madsen wrote:

No, it doesn't. All of the above are direct or indirect results of prostitution being illegal and unregulated. Drugs and human trafficking are two entirely different problems. And to be fair, unless a prostitute you're trying to hire is an oscar-winning actress it should be abundantly obvious if she doesn't want to be doing the job. I'd like to think that most people in that scenario would walk away.

Drugs and prostitution are not different problems, they are inextricably linked to prostitution. You don't know what you are talking about - I can tell from that statement alone.

You're also wearing your rose tinted spectacles if you don't agree that prostitution is a lucrative last resort for women. And if you ask yourself the question of whether you would want your sister or daughter to get gangbanged, pissed on, **** on, abused and ejaculated on by (in many cases) an absolute pig of a man - for money - then you will have answered the question as to whether prostitution is morally right or not.

Regardless of whether it is illegal or not. If the legal prostitutes won't allow extreme sex, then desperate illegal prostitutes will.

Think about it.

Eoin Madsen

Kernel wrote:

Drugs and prostitution are not different problems, they are inextricably linked to prostitution. You don't know what you are talking about - I can tell from that statement alone.

You're also wearing your rose tinted spectacles if you don't agree that prostitution is a lucrative last resort for women. And if you ask yourself the question of whether you would want your sister or daughter to get gangbanged, pissed on, **** on, abused and ejaculated on by (in many cases) an absolute pig of a man - for money - then you will have answered the question as to whether prostitution is morally right or not.

Regardless of whether it is illegal or not. If the legal prostitutes won't allow extreme sex, then desperate illegal prostitutes will.

Think about it.

I have thought about it. Claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about is not an intelligent point of argument. Drugs and prostitution are very clearly different problems. Whether or not they are sometimes related, they are undeniably completely different things - both of which can exist exclusively of each other. Drug addiction can arise out of prostitution, as it can out of a multitude of other things. You can no more derive a link between musicianship and drug addiction.

No matter how unpleasant a scenario you can dream up, it is still not a valid reason to make a blanket judgement about the act of prostitution. You cannot use an extreme case as justification to cast a moral judgement on something. All musicians are not drug addicts. All priests are not offending paedophiles. All prostitution is not immoral.

I would rather my sister or daughter had the right to choose what they do with their life and their body. And would hope that they could some day live in a society where they're protected from exploitation by a government that can discrimate between what is a personal choice and what is exploitation. Until we can accept (socially and legally) that there's nothing fundamentally immoral about prostitution or pornography it will be impossible to single out cases where exploitation is occuring.

Kernel

Eoin Madsen wrote:

I have thought about it. Claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about is not an intelligent point of argument. Drugs and prostitution are very clearly different problems. Whether or not they are sometimes related, they are undeniably completely different things - both of which can exist exclusively of each other. Drug addiction can arise out of prostitution, as it can out of a multitude of other things. You can no more derive a link between musicianship and drug addiction

I'm not trying to make an intelligent point of argument when I say you have proven you know nothing about the issue at hand, I'm stating an opinion backed up by accepted factual evidence. The links between drug addiction and prostitution are much closer, and tighter than you admit, and most people would accept that. Here's a report that you ought to read, as it completely makes rubbish of your claim:

"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7950854&dopt=Citation"

Eoin Madsen wrote:

No matter how unpleasant a scenario you can dream up, it is still not a valid reason to make a blanket judgement about the act of prostitution. You cannot use an extreme case as justification to cast a moral judgement on something. All musicians are not drug addicts. All priests are not offending paedophiles. All prostitution is not immoral.

They were not extreme cases my naive friend. If you have ever talked to a random prostitute (or social worker who deals with prostitutes) you will see that I have 'dreamed' nothing up, and that the prostitutes will have horrific stories of abuse and degradation to tell. Prostitution is immoral, and you have a lack of knowledge on the subject and also social conscience.

Eoin Madsen wrote:

I would rather my sister or daughter had the right to choose what they do with their life and their body. And would hope that they could some day live in a society where they're protected from exploitation by a government that can discrimate between what is a personal choice and what is exploitation. Until we can accept (socially and legally) that there's nothing fundamentally immoral about prostitution or pornography it will be impossible to single out cases where exploitation is occuring.

Would you feel happy if they became prostitutes and carried out the kind of acts I have previously described? If not, then why not? <rhetorical question - I hope!> I'll tell you why, because it's sickening, immoral and degrading, and if you love your sister/daughter then there's no way in hell you would want them to go through that.

As for the rest, I've been brief, because you show a huge lack of understanding or naivety of the sex trade, and I must get ready for a night of drunken debauchery soon. If I may ask, how old are you, and have you at any time considered yourself a pervert?

Eoin Madsen

Keep re-reading my previous posts, I've refuted those arguments already. You're either missing my point, or you're just incredibly self-righteous. If you didn't feel threatened by my argument I suspect you wouldn't be attempting to make attacks on my character.

Kernel

Eoin Madsen wrote:

Keep re-reading my previous posts, I've refuted those arguments already. You're either missing my point, or you're just incredibly self-righteous. If you didn't feel threatened by my argument I suspect you wouldn't be attempting to make attacks on my character.

Your statement regarding drugs and prostitution not being linked... ok, you didn't read the post, i'll paste it here for you:

This is from: "Drug Transitions Study, National Addiction Centre, London, UK."

"All of the women in our sample (n = 51) were actively working as prostitutes. More than half of them had given sex for drugs, though this was a relatively infrequent occurrence. The majority of them were using heroin and many of them were moderately or severely dependent upon heroin. More than one-third had shared injecting equipment after it had already been used. Almost two-thirds reported that they only worked as a prostitute in order to fund their use of drugs (predominantly heroin), and that they would not continue working as a prostitute if they were not still using drugs."

Does that make you feel like you're maybe a little bit wrong? I made no attacks on your character either.
:rolleyes:

Tha Gopher

Its odd the way that theres the sad bastard stigma of people using prostitutes here, but for a group of young lads on a weekend trip to Amsterdam the visit to the prostitutes is as essential as the legal hash smoking. You never hear a young lad in this country say "Went to a prostitue last night" yet when someone comes home from the Dam they cant stop talking about what exactly you get for 50 quid. I think if this country had proper burlesque type brothels, a sort of gentlemans club tpe e, it would be more acceptable. Joints with strippers and a bar where you lie back smoke cuban cigars drink brandy and generally pretend that you are Tony Soprano

Fcuk it, Im movin into the pimp game. My joint will be the dogs bollix. Bar, topless waitresses, the whole shabang.

Eoin Madsen

Kernel wrote:

Your statement regarding drugs and prostitution not being linked... ok, you didn't read the post, i'll paste it here for you:

Does that make you feel like you're maybe a little bit wrong? I made no attacks on your character either.
:rolleyes:

You made some rather lame implications, the least you could do is admit it.

Yes, I read the article. It has no relevence, though it could be used to reinforce the suggestion that legalisation of prostitution itself would allow a government to address other issues that have become entangled with it. You're still missing the point. I really don't know how.

OLDYELLAR

Ha some of ye would pay for it , thats so sad its funny!

rsynnott

OLDYELLAR wrote:

Ha some of ye would pay for it , thats so sad its funny!

It is, isn't it? And they're willing to ADMIT it, too...

OLDYELLAR

I know thats the really funny part
People havin to pay for some jolllies its gas!

Sarky

I shall use my AMAZING powers of deduction to reveal that OLDYELLAR is getting sex for free on a regular basis.

OLDYELLAR

Sarky wrote:

I shall use my AMAZING powers of deduction to reveal that OLDYELLAR is getting sex for free on a regular basis.

wow sarky ya know me so well
why pay?god gave ye hands like

langered

it is cheaper than having a wife or girlfriend. So ya definitely pay for it. u get 2 do what u want.

Tar.Aldarion

lol...why pay for sex...pay for the drinks that lead to it if you feel it needs to be bought
tbh i see nothing wrong on priciples with it,tbh if somebody says hmm i can get money easily through sex..pff why not!
there are plenty of high class ones that know what they are doing tbh...sex=good lifestyle for em so well done to them
on the other hand if they are being forced into it,it is wrong.

crazymonkey

Not against the idea of paying for sex, but i would not do it, too mean i think, what if you got nervous and could not perfome, do you get a discount in that case,,

Kernel

Eoin Madsen wrote:

Yes, I read the article. It has no relevence, though it could be used to reinforce the suggestion that legalisation of prostitution itself would allow a government to address other issues that have become entangled with it. You're still missing the point. I really don't know how.

How in the name of jaysus can you say that the article has no relevence!?!?! You earlier made the statement that drugs and prostitution were not linked... which the article completely disproves... oh **** it, I give up... you can lead a horse to water, but you can't educate it in social studies. You, my friend, are on a different plane of existence to most people.
:rolleyes:

finfacts

The Economist magazine argued last September that attitudes to commercial sex are hardening. But tougher laws are wrong in both principle and practice.

It says that abolitionists make three arguments. From the right comes the argument that the sex trade is plain wrong, and that, by condoning it, society demeans itself. Liberals (such as this newspaper) who believe that what consenting adults do in private is their own business reject that line.

From the left comes the argument that all prostitutes are victims. Its proponents cite studies that show high rates of sexual abuse and drug taking among employees. To which there are two answers. First, those studies are biased: they tend to be carried out by staff at drop-in centres and by the police, who tend to see the most troubled streetwalkers. Taking their clients as representative of all prostitutes is like assessing the state of marriage by sampling shelters for battered women. Second, the association between prostitution and drug addiction does not mean that one causes the other: drug addicts, like others, may go into prostitution just because it's a good way of making a decent living if you can't think too clearly.

A third, more plausible, argument focuses on the association between prostitution and all sorts of other nastinesses, such as drug addiction, organised crime, trafficking and underage sex. To encourage prostitution, goes the line, is to encourage those other undesirables; to crack down on prostitution is to discourage them.

See further here:

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3151258

Michael Hennigan
http://www.finfacts.com