Lost [Contains spoilers]

doh.ie

pickarooney wrote:

Interesting point about

Why have these people gone to such lengths to kidnap it, possibly including causing the plane to crash?

I think this goes back to a conversation Sayid and Kate had

about how it the plane's break-up was not normal, and how it was surprising that anyone survived at all. Sayid replied, "This isn't any ordinary island." So the suggestion is there that the *island* may have both caused the crash, and saved some of the people, as well.

Mr E

The explanations (when they finally come) are going to make or break the show. You're either going to think "Wow.. thats really cool", or "Jesus, I sat through xx episodes for THAT?? Forrrrrr FUUUUCCCCCKKKK SAKE!"

Raoul Duke

TmB wrote:

The explanations (when they finally come) are going to make or break the show. You're either going to think "Wow.. thats really cool", or "Jesus, I sat through xx episodes for THAT?? Forrrrrr FUUUUCCCCCKKKK SAKE!"

By then though it could be 3/4/5 seasons into the show!

Reese

TmB wrote:

The explanations (when they finally come) are going to make or break the show. You're either going to think "Wow.. thats really cool", or "Jesus, I sat through xx episodes for THAT?? Forrrrrr FUUUUCCCCCKKKK SAKE!"

Completely agree, they better fecking explain it at some stage or elsee there will be a few pissed off people!


Watched Ep11 today, I dled the 11 eps last week and watched the first 6 eps in one day (I'm either very sad and have no life or....wait thats it ) and I realised that I wanted to "savour" the rest of em, cos like a lot of ye, 4 weeks is damn long time to wait

Spoiler: Am I the only one that things two wrecks on the one island is all too coincidental? Esp when you factor in Danielle and Claire. My theory is that Danielle was actually pregnant when they ship wrecked and had the kid (that would prob make Ethan too old to be Alex unless they were on the island a few years longer than the transmission has been playing)

Anyway, obv theres something special about Claire's baby (what with the pyschic and all), perhaps it was somethine similar with Danielle's? Now, don't ask me why the island would want babies, I haven't figured that bit out yet

Haven't a clue how to do the "proper spoiler" grey thing, so did the font in white, highlight to read!

Mr E

Well episode 12 aired this week in the US. Still the best show on the box.... The one thing I wanted to know was what

Locke and Boone found

, but it looks like we'll have to wait a week or two for that one......

gazzer

I was reading on another forum that E4 has decided to put back showing Lost until the summer... I really hope that this is untrue or else it had better be on irish tv soon.

Mr E

Ouch... confirmed (more or less). According to the channel 4 forum, Lost is 'more than likely' delayed until the summer.

http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=181123
http://community.channel4.com/eve/ubb.x?q=Y&a=tpc&s=162603557&f=3696002921&m=799000777&p=29

doh.ie

Came into this thread expecting discussion of ep 12 - but nothing yet. Maybe there's anotehr thread going.

Ouch indeed. Way too long to wait. That's a disastrous move on Channel 4's part.
It would have been wiser to keep the gap with the US as narrow as possible to avoid potential viewers learning of plot twists in advance.

Let's hope RTE have the sense to show sooner rather than later - and in a decent timeslot. They could potentially ruin this if they hid it away in a death slot on RTE TWO, or showed it too early in the evening. In fact, I'd go as far as to say, it is more than worthy of being screened on RTE ONE in a prime-time, post news slot.

doh.ie

(later) Found no other thread.

Which brings me to "Whatever The Case May Be" - interesting, but the opening was very odd. They don't seem to do "Previously on" flashbacks, though an early episode *did* go back on key events. Given the US hasn't had an episode for a month, I don't know why this didn't have a recap.

Which made the opening with no mention of

Locke and Boone and their metal discovery or Charlie's near-death, or Claire's whereabouts very jarring. Maybe this is what they were going for, but you'd be forgiven for thinking much more time had passed. It seems to be a few days later. Boone and Locke seem to be planning to break in or open this hatch. I do like the way it wasn't revealed, but if anyone missed the previous episode, they'd have been wondering what the hell was going on.

Like the development of Shannon - will be interesting to see her (presumably with Boone's) flashback. Also liked the Finding Nemo song connection. That'd be "Beyond the Sea", but I've looked at its lyrics today, and I don't see what Rosseau could be getting at in her cryptic equations.

Kate - this wasn't what I expected. It's good that they've given her a non-redeeming edge, rather than have her implicated in something that 'wasn't her fault' Fugitive-style. But what the signifiance of the package is anyone's guess. Very odd. It certainly seems weird to be involved in a heist where she was more interested in this little trinket than any potential money, to the point of injuring the guy she was with and several others. (Presumably they all survived and she was talking about someone else in relation to the plane.)

It's good that she and Jack now have an awkwardness between them - her ongoing deception and his willingness to still keep his word underscores that.

I hope that isn't forgotten about too quickly - on previous occassions where she wanted to tell her secret/he didn't care or when he wanted to know/she told him his chance had passed, their relationship hardly seemed affected.

Also significant here is that Sun seems keen to keep her English fluency a secret... but she has no problems eavesdropping. She knows about the guns now.

A potentially missed opportunity was nicely covered - Charlie dealing with his guilt. Also good to see the return of Rose - I was worried they'd pull a Voyager and not keep a consistent group of non-key characters. It's important we continue to see her, "Steve" and the guy who had the heat rash.

Ongoing strong continuity, too, with Charlie's neck wounds (though his chest should be much sorer - to the point of *not being able* to help carry stuff off the beach. (Speaking of which, it seems the setting up of the beach set with the fuselage was too expensive for producers to continue including it in beach shots each week, so this is the real reason behind the suddenly rising tide.)

Overall, they seem to be taking an X-Files-style "answering one question while posing several more" approach to the plot. No harm in that, as long as (unlike XF) it has an overall consistency and is planned out properly in advance.

I'm waffling. Good episode; it's had better so far, but it was strong nonetheless.

ixoy

Good episode, if not the best they've had. And off we go -

Maybe this is what they were going for, but you'd be forgiven for thinking much more time had passed. It seems to be a few days later.

Indeed although could it have been that your em... cousin's copy just had the ads cut out? I noticed though that 'Alias' afterwards also had no "Previously on..." which is somewhat odd given they're trying to rope in a load of 'Lost' viewers who have never seen the show. Regardless, I'm all for no "Previously on.." as generally it gives too many hints as to what might come up this week and what plot arcs are important. I like to be completely surprised and applaud WB for getting rid of them entirely.

Most episodes so far have taken place over a day, or thereabouts, but this does seem to refelct a break. However, how long would it have taken Boone and Locke to get an axe? Timeframe is indeed a little jarring. Let's say 2 days...

Like the development of Shannon - will be interesting to see her (presumably with Boone's) flashback. Also liked the Finding Nemo song connection. That'd be "Beyond the Sea", but I've looked at its lyrics today, and I don't see what Rosseau could be getting at in her cryptic equations.

Well we'd need to see the equations to fully work it out. I'd assume the idea is that you plug the letters, somehow, into the equation and end up with a different message, the equation being somewhat like a key used in cryptography. That, or more likely, the equation picks out certain letters within the song that spell out some message or warning. Time will tell!

Kate - this wasn't what I expected. It's good that they've given her a non-redeeming edge, rather than have her implicated in something that 'wasn't her fault' Fugitive-style. But what the signifiance of the package is anyone's guess. Very odd. It certainly seems weird to be involved in a heist where she was more interested in this little trinket than any potential money, to the point of injuring the guy she was with and several others. (Presumably they all survived and she was talking about someone else in relation to the plane.)

Indeed. But I thought it was very obvious that she was working in conjunction with the robbers. I think that's because I'm so used to J.J. Abrams world where characters regularly flip from side to side for spurious reasons

The airplane, I hope, has some more significance than was let on. She said it belonged to the love of her life - who is this? Also, I can't help but wonder that it's too much of a coincidence that the object she found was a plane given the accident that happened. They have to connected.

Also significant here is that Sun seems keen to keep her English fluency a secret... but she has no problems eavesdropping. She knows about the guns now.

Indeed but to whom could she entrust this information? I guess, if it comes to anyone, it could be Michael. That or her former psychotic husband could get his hands on them if Ethan comes a wandering.

A potentially missed opportunity was nicely covered - Charlie dealing with his guilt. Also good to see the return of Rose - I was worried they'd pull a Voyager and not keep a consistent group of non-key characters. It's important we continue to see her, "Steve" and the guy who had the heat rash.

Count me as someone also very happy to see Rose back. It's good that we see others there besides our main cast - after all we've got 47 people on the island (that right? the pilot died and the girl who drowned from the original 48 + Ethan).

Overall, they seem to be taking an X-Files-style "answering one question while posing several more" approach to the plot. No harm in that, as long as (unlike XF) it has an overall consistency and is planned out properly in advance.

Quite. We do need answers at some point - that's why we constantly curse the X-Files mythology for not doing that coherently. For now I have faith.

I'm hoping we get to see Hurley's backstory next time. I really enjoy his character and even this week, when all he got in really was a laugh, reminded me why I liked him.

Now may 'Lost' and 'Alias' continue to bring the JJ genius forward for the rest of the year!

Mr E

I read that Hurleys backstory is about episode 18, and its an absolute humdinger....

doh.ie

I'd say they certainly didn't intend to give him one when the show started out, but he seems to have turned into one of the most popular characters. This could be an opportunity for Lost to do a 'Jose Chung' and have one quirky episode every year which doesn't necessarily tie in or matter much to the overall arc.

doh.ie

"Previously on My Post..."

Gah! Can't see through this spoiler mist. I hope y'all forgive me for quoting what was in grey - but it's harmless anyway!

ixoy wrote:

Indeed although could it have been that your em... cousin's copy just had the ads cut out? I noticed though that 'Alias' afterwards also had no "Previously on..." which is somewhat odd given they're trying to rope in a load of 'Lost' viewers who have never seen the show. Regardless, I'm all for no "Previously on.." as generally it gives too many hints as to what might come up this week and what plot arcs are important. I like to be completely surprised and applaud WB for getting rid of them entirely.

Double-checked the issue of no previously, and this is actually how it went out. Nothing chopping. Same for Alias.

Now, to be fair, sometimes producers drop these to avoid hinting at a plot or to launch into the action straight away (although, as you say, that doesn't stop a lot of shows doing 'Previously's which flashback to characters we haven't seen in yonks, and you're left going, "Oh, well, obviously they're going to show up again..."), but in this case, it seemed odd. It's been ONE month since a new episode - they are giving the US audience a lot of credit to remember the plot without a reminder. (It's not like here, where for most shows we see a new one week to week.) I'd accept they didn't do them at all if they hadn't already had one in ep 3 or 4.

Its exclusion from Alias was bizarre as well, much more so seeing as it was a season premiere. But again, this was how it was aired (by ABC, not the WB! /pedant.)

Sometimes producers do drop them if they are running over for time and rather than cut a key scene or one they like, this is considered the less important material. I'm assuming that is the case here. It's also likely any Previously... would have had to go back through Sayid and Rosseau, Ethan, Charlie hanging etc.

Also, since

Claire or Ethan didn't turn up in the episode anyway, and since Locke and Boone's discovery is hampered by the lack of an axe, few of the elements from ep 11 were greatly necessary to understand ep 12. Much mention was made of Claire's disappearance. (That said, any fly-by-night viewer who tuned into 12 would have wondered a lot about Charlie's neck.)

It may well be they don't plan to do any pre-episode flashbacks at all, in the same way that the lack of opening credits is supposed to make it not feel like a TV show.

OK, too much waffling on the Previously issue.

Hyzepher

Well I think the lack of any pre-episode flashbacks has something to do with ABC re-running the first 11 shows during the 4 week lay-off.

One thing that I noticed was the reference to the song in Finding Nemo - now unless the song is an old one how did Rosseau have known about it since she has been on the Island for 15 years.

Also the references to the ever rising tide, Rose's initial reference about her husband, and the seemingly lack of discussion about the power cable from the sea have all got me thinking

Hyzepher

ixoy

Nah it's not a mistake Hyzepher because

wasn't the song at the end 'Beyond the Sea', made famous by Bobby Darin in the movie of the same name? Rousseau would certainly have been around to hear that.

doh.ie

Hyzepher wrote:

Well I think the lack of any pre-episode flashbacks has something to do with ABC re-running the first 11 shows during the 4 week lay-off. Hyzepher

Ah, that's a good point. I'd forgotten they had the whole lot repeated. That's a good point - their most recent episode would have been fresh in the mind.

Hyzepher

ixoy wrote:

Nah it's not a mistake Hyzepher because

wasn't the song at the end 'Beyond the Sea', made famous by Bobby Darin in the movie of the same name? Rousseau would certainly have been around to hear that.

My mind is now at ease -well as much as it can be with a series like Lost about - lol

I still have something bouncing around in my brain regarding a statement from Rose and how she is not too sad about the loss of her husband - as far as she knows he could be somewhere else wondering where she is. A bit far-fetched but still nagging me.

Hyzepher

doh.ie

Hyzepher wrote:

I still have something bouncing around in my brain regarding a statement from Rose and how she is not too sad about the loss of her husband - as far as she knows he could be somewhere else wondering where she is. A bit far-fetched but still nagging me.

Hyzepher

I like this minor storyline a lot.

She's said it before too, so for it to have been kept in and the point remade is quite cool. Makes me wonder if Jack's father might also not have been a hallucination and hadn't just fallen out of the coffin. Although the island is only so big - hard to believe they haven't scouted more of it in 20-odd days.

It (the island) does seem capable of giving 'life' back to those that need it or yearn for it (Locke's legs, Charlie's drug problem, Charlie after he was found hanging, and various characters and their guilt) - it isn't impossible that it also has done this for other victims of the crash. (That said, the producers may come up with a way for it to work both ways - they fell out and survived on the other side of the island)

I can see much of the show turning into something that can be read both ways - there's faith in the power of the island if you believe that; or there's a lot of luck and fate floating about if you don't.

doh.ie

ixoy wrote:

Well we'd need to see the equations to fully work it out. I'd assume the idea is that you plug the letters, somehow, into the equation and end up with a different message, the equation being somewhat like a key used in cryptography. That, or more likely, the equation picks out certain letters within the song that spell out some message or warning. Time will tell!

I wasn't thinking of it in a cryptography sense, more that the words in English (or French) might actually contain something, or point to some information about the monster/'Them'. I'd hope that's why the producers would throw in something recognisable like Finding Nemo without actually mentioning it - so the viewers could check out the song itself to try and get in on the mystery. But I accept it could be a red herring (pardon the pun) and something you'd only be able to do if you saw Rosseau's notes. (Incidentally, she must be really paranoid if she coded it so heavily.)

ixoy wrote:

Count me as someone also very happy to see Rose back. It's good that we see others there besides our main cast - after all we've got 47 people on the island (that right? the pilot died and the girl who drowned from the original 48 + Ethan).

More pedantry... You forgot the marshal! I think it's 46 + Ethan.

ixoy wrote:

Now may 'Lost' and 'Alias' continue to bring the JJ genius forward for the rest of the year!

Hear, hear. Not just him, but also Mr Damon Lindelof, who seems to be the one who came up with the key concept of Lost and put the various bits and pieces character and backstory-wise together with JJ.

Raoul Duke

So what do ye think? They definitely ratcheted up the pace after last weeks slowdown. I really enjoyed this one. Like alot of the previous episodes this one also raises many questions. Where did that salve (right word?) come from? How much of the previous episodes especially the first ones were a form of delerium and never happened?

Mr E

I really liked this episode too.

The revelation at the end will make you question everything you've seen in the previous 12 episodes...

pickarooney

I didn't like

Boone's imagined death dream sequence, it was too Bobby-in-the-shower for my liking, and I was hoping Locke would turn out to be a good guy. Oh well... I think Sawyer's probably my favourite character now, hopefully he'll piss off Jack by usurping his favourable position with Kate/Maggie/Wassername. The Finding Nemo song was originally released in French in the 50s, I think.

ixoy

My own thoughts are that

I wasn't all that impressed with "and it was allll a dream". I didn't get the impression that we're meant to question everything we've seen up to now unless Locke somehow cut everyone and applied the salve. All I saw was that it was his tactic to seperate Boone from Shannon, isolate him and bring him to Locke's side.

I'm not sure really that Locke is evil - I still maintain he's in the middle somewhere, not aligned to any side. Rousseau had to kill people because they turned, became afflicted with something that caused evilness. The island itself can exhibit goodness too, as we've seen. Locke is the impartial mediator, who knows this and maybe trying to use that system to his own ends/goal. Lostzilla, I'll assume, is the embodient of that darkness but is intrinsic to the island - we need good and bad, a balance of two forces (symbolized in the chess game that Locke was playing in Claire's dreams). What we don't know is why these people survived - what does the force of the island need them for? And will people fall to the evil side as Ethan has and as Locke might.

On a final note - philosophy. As you may, or may not, be aware in the 1600s there was a real philosopher called John Locke[bio here]. From trying to read that bio, it seems that he was concerned with the origin of ideas and not making presuppositions about things, that we learn from our experiences. This ties in with what we know of Lost Locke. Original Locke's ideas also influenced political philosophy, which may or may not come into play.

It's clearly not a coincidence either given that we also have a Rousseau, another famous philosopher whose principal ideas were about society, published in the essay "The Social Contract". Rousseau wanted, essentially, rule by the people for the people. This wasn't an elected assembly, with their own agenda, but one where everyone has an input and say in how things are run. Interestingly this could be said to be the model employed by the crash survivors, where everyone's opinion is valid. Now is this what the original Rousseau tried to do and failed and now forsees for our survivor? Did her philosophy fail?

Anyone else have their opinions on the significance of two characters being named after philosophers or am I reading too much into all of this....

Hyzepher

I think at this stage it is too soon to have an accurate idea of what is going on. There are lots of things that dont make sense and things that have yet to be focused on - like the mention of Black Rock as a place of safety.

I am taking the whole 'dream inducing paste stuff' with a pinch of salt. There are some suggestions that it is this that is giving us some of the storyline but I think it would be too far fetched for that to be the cause, and ultimately a weak explanation. It is true that Locke knows the most about the Island and I am sure some of this goes back to his encounter with the 'monster' an earlier episode. I am also sure that we will find in later episodes that Locke has done some of his own exploring and maybe has found a little more information. I know I would be interested in finding more about the island if I was there.

Hyzepher

Basq

Only watched the pilot last night.... loved it!

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2285451&postcount=7

Getting the rest of the episodes now.. expect to see me on here within the next week discussing all the latest theories and happenings.

doh.ie

Ep 14 - "Special" - couple of thoughts...

One of the best episodes yet; I didn't expect Michael and Walt's backstory to be so interesting.

- Knew there was something weird about Walt from the ep where he was playing backgammon with Hurley and the die kept showing up the numbers he wanted.

- The comic book - this has been seen before, in the pilot. Funny how Walt was reading it then, and the polar bear showed up in the jungle shortly afterwards. The comic book also contains pictures of a monster - hardly a coincidence. Walt has either the ability to summon the monster, or is the *cause* of the monster, and other creatures at that. The scene with the bird - presumably the same kind he was describing to his mother and Brian - was freaky. Very nice character development. Locke - continuing to bring people over to his "side" had a great line in relation to Walt too - "I think he should be allowed to realise his full potential."

Comic's destroyed now - wonder what that means for the forces on the island. Not that I'm suggesting we'll suddenly have sunburned penguins (!), but the connection was too strong to be discounted. The previous appearance of the comic also hinted it was important, at least in its connection with Walt. Will have to check the pilot again, but there was something about the way Michael looked at it which made me think we'd see it again.

- Charlie - great scene with the diary. Was about a minute's worth of fumbling with his conscience too. More mention of the Black Rock.

- "Beyond the Sea" - so the lyrics meant nothing per se, but aligning the lines from the song together from the various maps creates an overlay map, possibly of the Black Rock, possibly of the transmitter, or both. Nice explanation. Reminded me of the primer solution in Contact. Nice to see the Black Rock mentioned again - third time at least now. Still likely to be the cause of the compass being off, I reckon. Possible also the source of some harnessed electricity to power the transmitter. I expect we'll be taking a trip there before long.

- Claire's return, sans baby. 'They' didn't want her either, but they also didn't kill her, which could prove interesting.

- We still don't know what Locke showed Boone at the end of 13. Either he's figured out a way to open the vault, or he's got some other island secrets he's now willing to share. Whatever he showed him, Boone doesn't seem so keen to give any information to Shannon now either.

- Interesting how little what you might once have thought were the 'principal' actors in Lost (Jack, Kate, Charlie, maybe Saywer) appeared in this one - hardly at all. Just goes to show as an ensemble series, each of the cast can hold their own very well.

monomaniac

I was also surprised how good ep 14 turned out to be. However there was an interview with David Fury (I think) who claimed that everything in the series has a basis in modern science.

After last night's episode

walt's possible abilities?

that leaves me very confused.

The synopsis for the next episode sounds brilliant

time to get the guns out, Ethan's coming back

- 2 weeks, grrrrrr!!

pickarooney

Haven't seen 14 yet, but the island is starting to remind me of that weird mini ecosystem in The Life of Pi.

doh.ie

monomaniac wrote:

I was also surprised how good ep 14 turned out to be. However there was an interview with David Fury (I think) who claimed that everything in the series has a basis in modern science.

I think this is a good way to go. Keeps it from veering off into X-Files territory and going a bit daft along the way. Although putting the monster down to

hallucinations is a bit of a cop-out, it still holds it all together. And to be fair, if Boone's experience hadn't been a hallucination, it would have destroyed Locke's standing in the camp - this was one of the reasons I was fairly sure it would turn out not to be real. I don't think Locke is ready to play his hand quite yet.

It's the bridging of the unusual nature of the island itself (most viewers take the island to be special itself, almost alive, in some way) and the fact that almost everything that happened so far could be perfectly well explained.

Nerves in Locke's legs could have been revived by the trauma of the crash, Charlie's recovery isn't so unusual - the brain can be deprived of oxygen for several minutes without lasting damage, Jack's father appearing was induced by lack of sleep etc etc.

Of course, there are some fantastical elements - what happened to the pilot?! - but this is part of the fun of the show.

As for the philosophers connection, there is absolutely something in the Rosseau/John Locke names. To add to Ixoy's post above, the original Locke believed we should be more at one with nature - he was noted as 'the Philosopher of Freedom'. He also believed there should be government with 'the consent of the governed' - for the people, by the people. (His ideals helped form America's law and government.) In Lost, we're probably going to see some kind of struggle for control of the group, possibly even rebellion or a split (Locke also advocated dissension where necessary.)

Locke wrote an essay on Human Understanding - how the world is what we perceive it because our own language and ideas shape what we see. He suggested sense and experience were more important than knowledge - a sort of earlier form of 'follow your heart' maybe. Lost Locke is doing this as well - helping characters find their destinies and become their true selves.

Rosseau believed man is a moral creature at heart, but that society has corrupted us. He saw the rise of goverments, the expanding knowledge of art and science and the dawn of a material society as destroying mankind's natural friendship and decency. Rosseau was very against the concept of government and elected representatives. He believed small groups should make their own laws and collectively govern themselves.

In Lost, as Ixoy said, it's likely that Danielle Rosseau did something like this - but her utopian society failed. The black and white stones in the pocket of an original citizen of Cavetown may suggest that yet another group (if they weren't Danielle's fellow scientists) failed as well. So it seems that basic good and evil wrecked every attempt at setting up a society on the island so far.

While I don't expect any of those philosopher concepts to ever make it into the show by name, their ideas will definitely be explored. JJ Abrahms has also admitted the name connections now, I'm told.

All in all, it's yet another element that make the show so much fun to watch. And it's a rare thing in US TV to find something that you can go away and try and figure out and come up with theories on, and still be surprised when the answers are revealed.

In fact, it's a rare thing to be challenged that much by TV at all.

doh.ie

monomaniac wrote:

I was also surprised how good ep 14 turned out to be. However there was an interview with David Fury (I think) who claimed that everything in the series has a basis in modern science. After last night's episode

walt's possible abilities?

that leaves me very confused.

Technically, you could say that

telekinesis

does have some basis in modern science, albeit not necessarily proven. But maybe not to the extent of

summoning polar bears or monstrous creatures

if he was responsible for that as well. It certainly explains

his backgammon game

, though, if we can suspend disbelief a little.