Lost [Contains spoilers]

Mr E

I Love Lost !!

How the hell do we wait 6 weeks for the last 6 episodes? Jesus..... This one was really great stuff. Hurley is the comic relief in this show and there were some very funny scenes in this episode..... Fantastic stuff.

doh.ie

Ep 18 discussion - "Numbers"

*Loved* this one, one of my favourites so far. Hurley backstory much more interesting than I expected. The whole numbers thing was fascinating. Enjoyed the comic turns with the lottery win and the ensuing bad luck. At some point, though, Hurley clearly decided that he did indeed make his own luck - he decided to dive out of the way of Rosseau's trap as though he didn't *expect* to get hurt. Same with the bridge. Surely this can't all be as a result of Lenny's friend's widow telling him the numbers carried no curse?

Liked Rosseau's story about the reason her team came to the island. Means that someone else sent the original numbers signal... Ethan definitely wasn't alone. (Assuming he's not the one who sent them.) The 'sickness' may be another manifestation of the curse (if it exists - remember, there are rational explanations for everything, supposedly), suggesting it's not a sure thing that this same disease will afflict the Lost bunch.

Nice to see the same numbers on the bunker. Wonder what Locke made of those. He was out of the loop on the Rosseau trip, and it has not been suggested that he knows anything about Rosseau's maps or notes (despite his appearing to know a lot about the island...)

Spotted the box company connection ("It's a box company, everyone needs boxes" - great line.). In terms of the appearance of Hurley on the TV in the Korean episode, he was obviously on the news because of his record lottery win in the US. (You'll note he was pretty well dressed and in a fancy car.)

I still reckon Walt crashed the plane by looking at the airline graphic sheet of what-to-do-in-a-crash, but it's cool to have a secondary element in Hurley's curse. (I want an award if my crash theory proves right, people!)

Hurley's reason for being in Australia seemed a little forced at first, but that may be because I thought Lenny's scenes - as deranged as he was - seemed a little rushed to me, and made the jump to the Australian outback a bit sudden. (Maybe even a quick scene of him consulting a map, or asking directions in Oz would have helped there.)

Can't believe it's six weeks, even if it does manage to prolong the Lost experience over the year rather than over 23 weeks. (How will we ever cope from mid-May to September?!)

pickarooney

I have to say this was my least favourite episode so far, though mainly because of

that one-legged women and her ridiculous accent. What the hell was that supposed to be? On the other hand, it did tie a lot of things up and open up a few more interesting doors.

Both Lost and Desperate Housewives are off the air for 6 weeks now. Does anyone know the reason for this?

doh.ie

ixoy wrote:

And those numbers - what more significance do they have other than some numbers representing things (16 = no. of years between the crashes, 42 = life, the universe and everything)..

Crud. Completely forgot to add to the number-crunching.

8 and 15 are in there too (flight 815)... One prime in there already, and the differences between subsequent numbers in the sequence are [4] (twice) [7] (also twice], [1] and [19] (another prime.) I'm sure that means nothing, but you know what this show makes you do once you've seen it! Like the 42 connection. The island is pretty much the universe in a microcosm. Only 7 and 9 don't appear in the numbers as digits. I take this to mean Jeri Ryan is joining the cast as Ethan's missus anytime soon.

A clever addition to the mix anyway; something new to play with as part of the mythology.

Good to see Rosseau back, even if it was obvious from the credits she was going to turn up in it. (I always like when shows leave the surprise guests for the end credits and give them a "Special Appearance by" credit there instead, so dopes like me who know their flippin' actor names get a genuine kick out of it!)

Basq

The real question is..

Anybody got any theories about what the numbers (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42) represent? No matter how vague / specific your theories are.. share 'em

For example:

16 years Rousseau's message has been on a loop etc.

doh.ie

pickarooney wrote:

I have to say this was my least favourite episode so far, though mainly because of

that one-legged women and her ridiculous accent. What the hell was that supposed to be? On the other hand, it did tie a lot of things up and open up a few more interesting doors.

Ah, she wasn't so bad. If only cos I kind of thought she was a bit like Coleen from Home and Away. Wonky accent, though... (This is the third time in Lost people have had limb issues - Kate's farmer friend in ep 3 had an artificial arm (that was a Fugitive nod) and Locke has had issues of his own as well. The island must be big on limb justice.)

pickarooney wrote:

Both Lost and Desperate Housewives are off the air for 6 weeks now. Does anyone know the reason for this?

ABC being too far ahead to keep going? They did show a lot of new ones in a row from January until now, and both shows started a tad earlier than rival networks in September 2004. Only a handful of eps left for Lost (they'll want those for late April/early May 'sweeps' when ad rates are measured). Same with Desperate Housewives. They need to ensure they have some during that period. I haven't checked yet, but if repeats of both shows aren't airing in the coming weeks, it's likely their timeslots have 'mid-season replacement' series being tested out in their place.

Basq

How about this one?

The fourth book in the Bible is called 'Numbers'

Referencing 8:16 gives me:

"They are the Israelites who are to be given wholly to me. I have taken them as my own in place of the firstborn, the first male offspring from every Israelite woman."

(Claire's baby..?)

See for yourself:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=numbers%208:16;&version=31;

doh.ie

basquille wrote:

The real question is..

Anybody got any theories about what the numbers (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42) represent? No matter how vague / specific your theories are.. share 'em

I'm definitely doing these in the Lotto for Saturday - anyone else daring to bring on the curse?! Ah, you won't be laughing when I pocket €1.56m! Going to buy myself a company that makes milk cartons. They're a bit like boxes...

Hmm. Not sure why that's spoilered...

Basq

If they come up, you'll probably have all of us in the Lost thread sharing the Jackpot.

Hope they curse Derek Mooney (OK.. he's not directly linked to the Lotto but still!)

These number theories will keep us going up until the new episode probably.

doh.ie

basquille wrote:

How about this one?

The fourth book in the Bible is called 'Numbers'

Genius. And definitely connected, whether it's that particular passage or not.

I like how you can force these to fit, though! Check out my version - Numbers 15:16 gives you this gem:

"16 The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the alien living among you.' "

How cool is that?! The monster...?!

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=numbers%2015:16;&version=31;

Basq

UPDATE ON MY BIBLE THEORY:

Actually, in The Bible... Book 4: Numbers

8:15 And after that shall the Levites go in to do the service of the
tabernacle of the congregation: and thou shalt cleanse them, and offer
them for an offering.

8:16 For they are wholly given unto me from among the children of
Israel; instead of such as open every womb, even instead of the
firstborn of all the children of Israel, have I taken them unto me.

doh.ie

basquille wrote:

If they come up, you'll probably have all of us in the Lost thread sharing the Jackpot.

Get your own numbers...!

Fine. I thought as much! This will be the crappiest Lotto line
since I thought the Fibonacci Sequence made a good set.
And just cos they were called "God's Equation" and I thought
He had a sense of humour...!

But you must all promise to club together to buy the box company...

ixoy

Lots of interesting

number stuff. Doubt it's all a coincidence (apparently we're told they know what they're doing!).

Doh.ie - I reckon you're right about why Hugo was on TV. Furthermore, is it possible he just changed from Hugo to Hurley so nobody would recognise his name as "that millionaire guy" or do we reckon there's something more afoot?

Basquille - interesting stuff. Biblical allusions are very popular on mythology shows and I wouldn't put it past Lost. I would prefer though if you were wrong, merely because I think it's sometimes a bit lazy to go rooting through the Bible. Hell pick the Koran or Torah for a change...

Pickarooney - The accent grated with me too but not nearly enough to spoil this excellent episode.

From reading online, those are going to be the most popular Lotto numbers in America this week

Basq

ixoy wrote:

Furthermore, is it possible he just changed from Hugo to Hurley so nobody would recognise his name as "that millionaire guy" or do we reckon there's something more afoot?

Doubtful.. you'd probably recognise his face more than his name if you recognised him as "that millionaire guy".

Also, the episode where he told Jack that his real name is Hugo, not Hurley but he's not telling why he's got that nickname appeared to be done in a jokingly manner.

Maybe he got the nickname it's cos he gets sick a fair bit ('hurl' being a common slang term for vomiting in the States).. the episode where he stepped on the sea urchin and Jin gave him the food. He got sick after it! And he told Jack he gets sick at the sight of blood, didn't he?

Just a theory!

Basquille - interesting stuff. Biblical allusions are very popular on mythology shows and I wouldn't put it past Lost. I would prefer though if you were wrong, merely because I think it's sometimes a bit lazy to go rooting through the Bible. Hell pick the Koran or Torah for a change...

I also hope this isn't the case as i need there to be more significance than a Bible reference for these numbers. Co-ordinates for the island maybe? Something with significance for us viewers!

Skyuser

Y r all da spoilers blanked out?

Basq

Skyuser wrote:

Y r all da spoilers blanked out?

You just answered your own question... cos they're spoilers!

So people who haven't been watching it but browse the thread can read it spoiler-free.

Was also a request from someone browsing this thread a couple of pages back.

Skyuser

Ya but da thread clearly states that there is gonna b spoilers, so ya don't ave 2 read it

ixoy

Skyuser wrote:

Ya but da thread clearly states that there is gonna b spoilers, so ya don't ave 2 read it

A few pages back we decided, roughly, to wait about 4-5 days after the US airings before talking about the latest episode. This is in case any tapes got delayed in the mail by errant cousins or people were doing other things...

Yeah I know, they could avoid looking at the thread but still... It's not too much to ask...

monkeyfudge

Yeah... great episode... not much for me to add...

Hurly seems to be one of the characters where there is clearly alot more we have to learn about him. Why was he in the asylum? What were the terrible things that he had to make up for to his family? What was that comment about being something of a warrior back home? And is he adopted? He certainly doesn't look very hispanic.

Oh, and wasn't that craddle what Locke was working on in Claire's nightmare?

As for the numbers, I'm guessing that you can't work out a mathematical pattern from them, seeing as the French science team never came up with anything, so their significance must lie elsewhere.

Also, I don't suppose anyone knows what that French comic book Walt had was about? It seemed to be pretty close to the mark with the polar bears, and it showed some sort of eco-system in a dome floating in space. Maybe 2342 is the year.... ha...

EDIT:

Okay.. I found the comic book. It was in Spanish actually... I'd forgotten that.

It's apparently called Green Lantern/Flash: Faster Friends Part I

And a quick Google came up with this page with some scans out of the comic in English

http://www.livejournal.com/community/lost_tv/463590.html

Basq

monkeyfudge wrote:

What was that comment about being something of a warrior back home?

That was in a past episode.. it was taken out of context in the flashback. It was more of a joke with Walt.

Oh, and wasn't that craddle what Locke was working on in Claire's nightmare?

Nope, the cradle in Claire's nightmare was a white plastic one. But that would have been creepy!

Basq

Another great Lost reference / in-joke that went un-noticed.. by me anyways:

Jorge Garcias (Hurley) made a memorable appearance in comedy 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' as a drug dealer.

Hence, the line: "I have no idea why the police would mistake you for a drug dealer."

Maybe not that intentional though! And yet another numbers theory:

Apparently, messing around with the numbers (4-8-15-16-23-42) on a map as a latitude of 4 degrees 8 minutes and a longitude of 151 degrees and 6 minutes gives you a spot near the Caroline Islands just north of Australia.

Possible island location? Maybe not..!

Mr E

My brother started watching the series from the start last night, and one thing I noticed from episode 1 was

Jack told Hurley to move Claire and keep an eye on her contractions. He moved her just under the wing of the plane, which, 20 seconds later collapsed. Really goes to show how fantastic the writers and planners of this show were - the curse was there in episode 1, but obviously no-one knew about it then.

Great stuff.
Who knows what else would show up during repeat viewings?

Hyzepher

This weeks episode probably gave the most insight into the island than any other so far. It may have asked more questions than it answered but at least we have a better understanding of what went on.

The reference to the numbers is abviously the main story line in the episode but if we follow the story from back to front it maybe easier to explain.

For some reason a group of people on the Island built a radio tower. At some stage thay used the communication aspects of the tower to send out a repeated message containing the numbers. This was about 16 years ago. Lenny and his mate (forget his name but husband to theone living in the middle of nowhere) are stationed on some navel outpost and hear the numbers over and over again - the spooky nature of this leads them to belive the numbers have a widersignificance. At the same time Rousseau and her party also hear the transmission and go to the island to investigate. They get shipwreked and eventually the rest of the party die (unknown reason) and she changes the transmission to her voice.

Lenny's friend then uses the numbers to guess the number of beans or something and wins a prize - then bad luck happens all around him but no to him. Eventually kills himself. Lenny then becomes senile probably due to his bekief that the numbers are to blame. He meets Hurley in the hospital and as Lenny continually repeats the numbers Hurley decides to use them in the Lottery - wins and then bad luck for people around him but good luck for him - lottery win, fire in Canada but leads to more money for him, stocks doing well but people falling out of windows etc. Again believes the numbers are to blame.

Crash happens.

Hurley sees papers with the numbers and meets Rousseau and convinces her that the numbers are cursed. Numbers are engraved on the buried structure Locke found.

It seems to me that whoever built the radio tower owned the buried structure - probably with the call sign of the numbers. The initial distress call may have just included the numbers for identification. The facts hard to believe include the coincidences with those who use the numbers and Hurley landing on the island from which the numbers originated. I think everything else can be explained.

Hyzepher

doh.ie

monkeyfudge wrote:

Hurly seems to be one of the characters where there is clearly alot more we have to learn about him. Why was he in the asylum? What were the terrible things that he had to make up for to his family?

Agree the reasons for his being in the asylum are interesting further backstory, and presumably not connected to the numbers issue or the lottery win either. Whatever his put his family through must also be connected to this. I agree he's not 100% Hispanic-looking, but he's also not far off. I'm not sure if the adopted thing is right.

monkeyfudge wrote:

Oh, and wasn't that craddle what Locke was working on in Claire's nightmare?

Seems not, but it's hardly a coincidence that Locke was in her dream with the cradle, and now he's made this for her. I figured out what it was when she thought it was a trap - how dense is she?! In the final scene, she still didn't know and all you had to do was turn your head slightly sidewards!

re: Spanish comic

monkeyfudge wrote:

It's apparently called Green Lantern/Flash: Faster Friends Part I

And its story is definitely relevant according to JJ Abrams in an Entertainment Weekly article recently.

Going to buy myself a copy of that comic on eBay - there's a few on offer. Cool prop duplicate from the show if nothing else.

doh.ie

TmB wrote:

My brother started watching the series from the start last night, and one thing I noticed from episode 1 was

Jack told Hurley to move Claire and keep an eye on her contractions. He moved her just under the wing of the plane, which, 20 seconds later collapsed. Really goes to show how fantastic the writers and planners of this show were - the curse was there in episode 1, but obviously no-one knew about it then.

This is good stuff, but you could also argue that despite bringing on the bad luck, Hurley himself was never in any danger. It seems to me that throughout "Numbers" Hurley put himself in danger and was not harmed (he crossed the bridge, jumped out of the way of the spiked log and was not injured by Rosseau's shooting.) It's almost like he was tempting fate, knowing he wouldn't get hurt. I'd love to think that the writers planned this all along. I certainly hope so. Writers often don't plan to nearly this degree, so it's all the more impressive if something like this was suggested from the start. (Of course, as much bad luck as he's had - food issues, constipation, stepping on the sea urchin, the chaos with Ethan in the camp, he's also had quite a bit of good - finding golf clubs, friendships, even actually surviving the crash...)

Did we just learn of his real name, Hugo, last night, by the way? I have this nagging feeling he revealed that earlier, when he was doing the census in ep 10.

doh.ie

Hyzepher wrote:

It seems to me that whoever built the radio tower owned the buried structure - probably with the call sign of the numbers. The initial distress call may have just included the numbers for identification. The facts hard to believe include the coincidences with those who use the numbers and Hurley landing on the island from which the numbers originated. I think everything else can be explained.

You could argue that it is the connection with the island and the bunker which makes the numbers cursed, not the numbers themselves. (Although the producers say the show can work from any perspective, so sceptics will just have to buy the coincidence explanation for now on the 'luck' issue.)

Also, we know know for sure what is at the Black Rock (spoken of in several episodes, and in Rosseau's radio message, though Shannon didn't translate that part) - it's the transmitter site. Definitely going to be an episode based around going to the Black Rock, maybe at season's end.

Basq

doh.ie wrote:

Did we just learn of his real name, Hugo, last night, by the way? I have this nagging feeling he revealed that earlier, when he was doing the census in ep 10.

Yeah, your nagging feeling would be correct.

He revealed in the episode with the census to Jack that nobody really knows each other. And said something along the lines of: "my name isn't Hurley.. it's Hugo Reyes. Hurley's just a nickname i have. Why?... i'm not telling!"

pickarooney

Hmm,

It's probably not that accurate to refer to the numbers as a curse, as they bring an equal amount of good and bad luck - win the lottery, lose your grandad, lose a factory, gain insurance money, have part of a plane nearly fall on you, regain your legs... Or more accurately, one person suffers for another's gain - Hurley, Sam, Locke (Walt?) all win something from the numbers while those around them lose.
Anyone any good at backgammon and know a way of using these numbers to plan the momement of the pieces? Or to describe cancer-cell formations?

Basq

TmB wrote:

My brother started watching the series from the start last night, and one thing I noticed from episode 1 was

Jack told Hurley to move Claire and keep an eye on her contractions. He moved her just under the wing of the plane, which, 20 seconds later collapsed. Really goes to show how fantastic the writers and planners of this show were - the curse was there in episode 1, but obviously no-one knew about it then.

Great stuff.
Who knows what else would show up during repeat viewings?

Very true as i started re-watching the series from the beginning with my girlfriend and i noticed a load of things i didn't notice first time round.

Can't recall any of them right now though i remember one or two of them were in Walkabout.

doh.ie

pickarooney wrote:

It's probably not that accurate to refer to the numbers as a curse, as they bring an equal amount of good and bad luck - win the lottery, lose your grandad, lose a factory, gain insurance money, have part of a plane nearly fall on you, regain your legs...

This is almost certainly how the numbers work, and fits in with established Lost theories of black and white, good and evil, and the 'balance' of the universe. But shouldn't these incidents only affect Hurley (directly, or indirectly) - the guy falling out the window seemed to me to be the only one which wasn't directly affecting him, unless that was a guy who worked on his accounts!