Moderation of trans issue and terms

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123493469#Comment_123493469

I'd suggest the boards team do not consider that source or any other activist insanity because by next week, it will have changed again and boards will be chasing it's ass.

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123492766#Comment_123492766

'Trans identifying male' has the exact same meaning as 'transmale'

And WTF at your 'Refusing to use the term cisgender is also transphobic' and this cherry on top, 'If you don't agree with being called cisgender, it's the same as denying the existence of trans people.'

That says what this mindset is all about, right there.

And boards does not need it IMO.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123493871#Comment_123493871

Ah Here.. this is trying to draw me in to get involved in this extremely divisive debate .

I think you know from my previous post where I stand Flaneur .

I will call anybody anything they want to be called but just don't call me Cis !

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123493864#Comment_123493864

Who has thoroughly discredited it and why haven't they told anybody else?

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494242#Comment_123494242

Please teacher, I know! I know!

It's a bunch of LGBTQIA+++ activists.

For instance the lead "researcher" is Chris Noone from UCG, whose biography says he has a BA in Psychology (Education), a couple of Masters, and a PhD again in Psychology Education:

https://orcid.org/0000-0003-4974-9066

His colleagues are of a similar ilk. From the "Ethics" section of the publication, there's this:

Competing interests

Maxence Ouafik declares unpaid volunteering with TransKids Belgium, membership of WPATH (with no specific role inside the organisation) and being provider of gender affirming care. Ryan Goulding and Sibéal Coll are Committee Members & Co-Leads of the Medical Advocacy Subcommittee for Trans Healthcare Action (Ireland). Alex Ashman declares unpaid volunteering with Royal College of Surgeons of England Pride in Surgery Forum. Jo Hartland is an LGBTQ + activist associated with GLADD via the “UK Medical School charter on so-called conversion therapy”. Dr Hartland holds no formal role with GLADD. They are not part of the board or membership but have been associated in the media. Chris Noone is an unpaid board member of the National LGBT Federation (Ireland). Ryan Gulding, Sibéal Coll, John Gilmore, and Chris Noone are members of the Professional Association for Transgender Healthcare in Ireland.

https://bmcmedresmethodol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12874-025-02581-7#ethics

Oddly (or it would be if they had any intention of being objective) there's not a single declaration of competing interests from a group like LGB Alliance or Sex Matters, or The Countess. Not a one. Amazing isn't it?

Quantum Erasure

From the link Ezeoul posted

Not using “they/them” (or similar) pronouns for non-binary people is transphobic as is using these terms for binary trans people.

That's going a bit far.

Just saw a short update posted in another thread "The verdict is in, the student has won their case", would that be deemed transphobic if the student was trans?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123493554#Comment_123493554

Thanks for that .

I have read it and while a good article it doesn't answer my question about why I should accept the term cis or use it when I can say I am a woman.

The article goes through a range of abuses directed at trans men , trans women and non binary individuals ..none of which apply to my not liking the term "cis " nor explain why it would be considered offensive or transphobic not to use the term .

I have never misgendered anybody knowingly and it would go against my beliefs and principles to abuse anyone .

I believe in everyone's right to their identity and to respect and to be treated with dignity .

I would appreciate that same respect of my dislike for the term cis woman used to identify me.

Ten of Swords

So anyway...

Feedback, amirite?

What are we talking about?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494289#Comment_123494289

But you don't have to use it to refer to yourself if you don't want to, and if anyone does ever use it to refer to you directly, tell them you find it offensive, and to please stop.

Which they should, if they're a decent human being.

archfi

A poster has requested the censorship of words, in particular 'trans identifying male' appears to have triggered them in a CA thread discussing women's prisons in Ireland.

The poster wants a boards filter or somesuch on those words.

That's it as far as I'm aware.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494326#Comment_123494326

A poster (not trans) is objecting to female posters using the word male when saying that people with male bodies, including transwomen, should not be in women's prisons.

The poster believes that the only non transphobic way of describing the problem is to say that a certain category of women should be sent to male prisons.

Which makes no sense at all.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494326#Comment_123494326

Go back to post #707 on page 24 where this begins, if you want the full context.

Also, @Irish Aris has helpfully confirmed that the mod team / Admin will be looking at this as well (post #730).

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494344#Comment_123494344

I don't find it offensive . Just unnecessary and don't like it personally.

My point was lost there somewhere.

To say I don't like the word cis used in reference to me was tantamount to my saying I was transphobic , according to a poster with whom I normally agree .

It's that that I disagree with .

There has to be correct and respectful language agreed upon and used here so that everyone discussing this know what is acceptable or not . And to call that censorship is disingenuous of course .

EmmetSpiceland

Is it time to put up a warning in the forum explaining that the content will be a little “courser” than the rest of the site and that serious discussion can be found in the Politics forum?

Maybe add in that the opinions expressed do not align with those of boards.ie’s, bar a couple of moderators. This could allow for a “consequence” free freedom of speech where users can say what they really want to say and no filters would be necessary.

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123493871#Comment_123493871

Maybe I'm not woke enough but I would think male or female, is that wrong?

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494629#Comment_123494629

The issue with the Politics forum, and part of the reason for CA in the first place I believe, was that the "standard" of posts wasn't up to the desired "quality" deemed appropriate by the Mods/regulars at the time.

That's part of the reason I stopped even looking at that forum. Each to their own, but that "attitude" didn't sit well with me!

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123493195#Comment_123493195

Your post doesn't actually give any justification for using the terms "trans identifying male/female". It's pretty clear what the aim is with terminology like that.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123494755#Comment_123494755

‘Politics’ needs to work out if it is a political science forum or a forum for political views.
That’s not a ‘woe is me’ opinion, just a reflection on mod intervention when debates get heated on political points of view. Politics is adversarial, so what if things get heated occasionally?

Ezeoul

For information, for those reading who don't know why "trans identifying male / female" is considered offensive, it's because the term "trans identifying male" is not used towards trans men. It is used towards trans women, and in doing so, it misgenders them. And vice-versa.

volchitsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495035#Comment_123495035

I’m not sure what you mean: there’s no explanation in the post, or you can see the explanation but you don’t think it’s valid for some reason? Could you explain please?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495110#Comment_123495110

I am reading that as referring to a trans man as a trans identifying male is thus not considered offensive. Is that correct?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495169#Comment_123495169

No.

"Trans identifying male" does not mean trans man.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495169#Comment_123495169

It's confusing and wrong, so it's offensive to me at least ...

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495110#Comment_123495110

It's actually very simple and logical.

Trans identifying male refers to males who identify as trans.

Trans identifying female refers to females who identify as trans.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495198#Comment_123495198

So is a female who identifies as trans a trans woman or trans man?

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495200#Comment_123495200

Good question!

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495200#Comment_123495200

Trans man I think? Would explain why some folks find it offensive.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495198#Comment_123495198

It is very simple.

It is misgendering to refer to a person who identifies as a trans woman as "male" in this way.

And vice-versa.

taxAHcruel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123493719#Comment_123493719

Indeed but if one were to get pedantic for the fun of it - and I do enjoy a pedantic conversation about words - the word "Phobia" also had a very clearly defined meaning too and an etymology behind it rooted in Greek if I recall. From "phobos" meaning fear or terror.

Compare what most dictionaries say if you google "define phobia" with the opening sentence of your own link above about Transphobia. They are not even remotely similar. Hardly could be more different in fact. The modern usage of the term "phobia" has changed massively in many contexts. And not for the better, I feel.

It is also a shame that they are considering the word "normal" as "stigmatizing". I see it as anything but. And if you read most dictionary definitions of it most of the time - there is nothing stigmatizing about it either. It's worth some quiet contemplation why the word "normal" is getting a bad rep, or why anyone might consider being out of the ordinary or "abnormal" as a bad thing. It's a bit like the naturalistic fallacy. The normalacy fallacy perhaps? Perhaps rather than dodging that word as a species - we would be better off confronting the dark aspects of the human psyche that would lead us to feel that way about it in the first place.

You are technically right though to protest you "didn't decide the terms!" as you put it. But consider: you did decide which of the many many activist sites of people who are engaged in "deciding the terms" you wanted to link to and propagate on this thread. Which is not THAT much different than doing it yourself. You could have picked any site offering any of the many definitions. You CHOSE that one specifically.

If I want a word to mean something - I just have to go looking for some site that uses it the way I want and then link to that site. Then I could just declare "Oh well it wasn't ME that defined it that way!" with an innocent smile and clean hands. But it risks coming across as highly suss.

That said I like yourself entirely agree and have nothing against such terms - either using them or them being used about me. I just see no reason most of the time to ever use them myself. And certainly find no reason to legislate their use in the rules of an online forum such as this, and just add more work to an already small and overworked and under-trained VOLUNTEER modding staff.

If a context comes up where using them in a piece of prose will actually clarify understanding on something I write - I will be all too happy to do so. I post to be understood after all - not just to hear myself talk.

I simply can not think of (m)any situations where I felt it even remotely useful to do so. Least of all just to signal my tacit acknowledgement that some other group exists for the sake of display. The concept that seems to have creeped into at least one users posts on the thread that one should use words like "cis" to specifically acknowledge the existence of the people who are not. In fact this post may in fact (not sure) be the first time I have EVER typed that word. I genuinely can not remember ever having used it before.

It just feels a bit like those weird people who get antsy at you when you do not have their pet flag or ribbon of the day posted on your Twitter Profile. You know those rare but wonderous people who go from Profile to profile and message anyone they find who did not promptly display a ukraine flag, or a palestinian flag, or some black or red ribbon of the day. Policed virtue signalling and compelled speech is no speech at all I feel.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123495153#Comment_123495153

It's still misgendering so you're actively trying to be disrespectful of the trans community. Citing the reports that suit you don't change that fact.