The media unquestioningly accepting the whingeing of teachers.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972417#Comment_121972417

Already did.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972349#Comment_121972349

ottolwinner

but sure that’s not the teacher pay scales at all.

Zelaouz

Teachers get a fair salary for a shorter work year. They have summers, Easter, Halloween, Christmas off. If they were to work the equivalent as a public or private sector nurse/IT professional/any other job with 30days holidays it would be underpaid. Is there anything stopping them - contracts wise - to work other jobs during the summer?

whisky_galore

There was a brief appreciation for teachers when parents had to attempt to teach their own unbearable little sh1ts during lockdown, we are back to dumping on teachers again. Mainly a jealousy/grass is greener thing.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972399#Comment_121972399

I really hate this sort of comment.

You can't compare every job against the worst job and everyone has a right to fight for better conditions in their own job.

Also, regarding wages, there should be no point where people stop looking to be paid more for their work. I doubt anyone has ever turned down a pay rise thinking "well I get paid X above the average and that's enough for me". To think any different is laughable.

spurious

The comprehension skills of some here display a frightening need for teachers.

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972628#Comment_121972628

I didn’t compare every job, I compared the profession which moans the most, I simply made the point that if they had to work an actual hard job that they might appreciate their own job, I also don’t have to compare it against “the worst job”, teaching is a good number when compared to many jobs.

Regarding your second point, I have no idea where you got the idea that I was saying people shouldn’t be paid more, I said that you have to start at the bottom in the Public Sector and work your way up, to the best of my knowledge this is correct in most cases, I can give an example, if a person has worked as a Civil Engineer abroad for 15 years and then moved home and got a job with the council they will start on the bottom of the of pay scale, why should teachers be any different.

Before any smart a**e says it, I didn’t become a teacher because I hated school and would rather put pins in my eyes than spend my life working in one.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971546#Comment_121971546

They are neither the cause nor the solution to the teacher shortage

Not saying you're wrong but I am curious on this.

A teacher shortage implies that schools cannot fill teacher vacancies.

So how would teachers going on career breaks not at least be a contributory factor in teacher shortages? If teachers couldn't go on career breaks, then by definition there'd be more teachers available at any one time, and therefore the shortage would be at least less than it is today?

No?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972629#Comment_121972629

Tbf the gobshíte that thought 4 years working abroad should count towards his irish experience really needs a better education himself.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972718#Comment_121972718

The attitude of "you could have it worse, appreciate what you got" doesn't apply in our labour market, and frankly reminds me of the "you should be happy you have a job" attitude from 2010.

Fortunately many people know their worth, which is why we have so many staff shortages in Ireland. Young people have realised the civil service and Irish SMEs are treating them poorly and their skills are more appreciated and rewarded abroad, or with MNCs.

Ireland will continue to have critical skills shortages until the country starts offering competitive packages and gets the housing crisis under control.

I don't think that teacher was naive to think his experience would count in the Irish system. He was naive to think the Irish system would help him in any way.

Also, regarding your civil engineer example, the county council don't have a near monopoly on civil engineering, like the department of education have in teaching. It's not the same.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972797#Comment_121972797

many young teachers are not coming back from career breaks - the tax free pay and perks in dubai and places vs conditions here are just too good

Deeec

Perhaps we should look at giving bonuses to teachers based on their performance. Unfortunately there is way too many bad teachers who have no interest in their job and there is no consequences for them. Bad teachers will always have a job. My children have also had some excellent teachers who genuinely care about their pupils futures - they deserve more. Teaching shouldn't be a job for life for the bad teachers. In the private sector, salary increases are usually based on performance.

We should also look at given a Dublin teacher rate to even things out.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972625#Comment_121972625

Being honest teachers went way down in my appreciation during COVID ( primary school teachers). Their one email sent per week and saying it wasn't necessary to send the work back to them while complaining about how much work they had to do was extremely poor and unhelpful.

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972826#Comment_121972826

1. Yes it does apply, it just doesn’t suit teachers when it’s pointed out to them. It is absolutely a valid point to say that teaching is a good job when compared to many other jobs.
   
2. That teacher was absolutely naive to say the very least, see my example on the Civil Engineer, this is across the board, only a teacher would think they should be treated differently to everyone else.
   
3. If anyone goes to college to become a teacher with the hopes of working in the Private sector as a teacher they need their head tested. It is blatantly obvious since the foundation of the state that teachers will work for the Department of Education. This is not something that’s kept secret until the day you qualify. If a person wants a choice between Public / Private sector then don’t become a teacher, simple as that.
   

Salaries, pay scales, conditions of contracts etc. are available at the click of a button for most Public Sector jobs, the option is also there to simply ask someone that’s already in the job. Again, people don’t just find out these things on their first day in the job, or at least if they do they can blame nobody only themselves for sheer laziness. There is no reason for anyone to be “sickened to their stomach” (the guy speaking about working abroad) about something that’s widely known and is applied across the board.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972954#Comment_121972954

People are perfectly entitled to petition for better wages and conditions.

Salary and pay scales are there at a click, but they won't change unless teachers take action.

The state needs quality teachers more than quality teachers need the state.

Saying "it could be worse" is an absolutely meaningless sentiment

SharkMX

The ones moaning are young. What else would they be doing. Millennials moan all the time. Something is always unfair to them and someone elses fault. The ones doing the moaning here are millenial teachers.

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972967#Comment_121972967

Again, I didn’t say anything about people not being entitled to be paid more, a lot of Public Sector employees are getting 10.25% over the next few years. This is a result of Unions negotiating with the government and not “teachers taking action”.

I didn’t say “it could be worse” I made the point that Teaching is a good job when compared to many other jobs and that teachers might appreciate their jobs if they had to work an actual hard job for a while. If teachers thought about this before moaning the general public would be more on their side.

Anyway, I’m wasting my time because you’ve (conveniently) ignored every point I made and gone off on a tangent. Over and out.

csirl

The biggest issue with teachers salaries is how incredibly long the salary scale is. Older teachers are earning twice the salary of younger teachers. Historically this is because union officials - usually older teachers - looked after themselves at the expense of younger colleagues in pay negotiations.

Salary scale reform - with a shorter scale of maybe 6-8 points would add 10k plus to the starting salary at no cost to the taxpayer.

csirl

Another big issue with teaching is the dramatic drop in standards - often driven by the much lower qualifications the Teaching Council now accepts. Its not the profession it used to be - with well educated entrants.

Its now possible to become a primary school teacher via doing a distance learning theology degree with a UK religious college that has no real LC requirements, followed by an online HDip. (I know two teachers who've qualified this way). Not the type high quality entrants you traditionally get from the likes of St. Pats.

Teachers need to accept that if the qualifications needed are much less than in the past and lower than many mid level careers, their salaries should reflect this.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972826#Comment_121972826

Ah, come on, that guy should have checked if his experience abroad was going to stand to him or not before he went.
It was really foolish not to, and entirely his own fault.

mikep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971694#Comment_121971694

That's an interesting reaction to the employer using a clause in their agreement that was agreed by all parties.

Either they must be changing jobs or staying abroad to work I suppose…

I also find it odd that other areas of the PS cannot work in the same field when on a career break but teachers can.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973083#Comment_121973083

How do you know they havent worked hard jobs before?

How do you know the job they do isnt hard?

If anyone in any job keeps their head down they get walked all over....thats the world we live in unfortunately.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973127#Comment_121973127

Cant speak for primary schools but it has never taken longer or cost more to qualify as a secondary teacher. I qualified in 09, 3 year undergrad, 1 year postgrad which cost 6k. Now the undergrad is either the same or longer and the PME is 2 years and 13k. By your logic, NQTs should be paid more than me. Because obviously experience doesnt matter.

Hippodrome Song Owl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973266#Comment_121973266

They stayed for the time they planned to and they're all back. The Chemistry teacher changed jobs. The other two are back teaching in different schools. Their original school still has no replacement so dropped these three subjects as an option. The only losers are the students attending. The school could have had them back by now but made a short-sighted decision.

Benicetomonty

This idea has been thrown out there for years but with no real suggestions as to how you 'rate' a teacher. Interested to hear your ideas.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973083#Comment_121973083

Your definition of "an actual hard job" doesn't matter a whit.

It's just your opinion, which is irrelevant to the subject, as i presume you're not a teacher.

If that's the case, then you cannot compare a teacher's job to anything.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973155#Comment_121973155

In the story he says you can't check.

You can only apply after you get a teaching job and you find out when you get your first wages. There's no way to appeal.

csirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973315#Comment_121973315

Its not my logic - its the current situation. Personally I dont agree that doing a "mickey mouse" online theology degree qualifies someone to teach in primary school.

And they"re not NQTs. Both people I know are in permanent pensionable full time hours jobs. One even has a post of responsibility even though she is inexperienced!

Someone doing an online degree in the evenings while working FT in a non-teaching job isnt incurring the same hardship as those like you qualifying via traditional routes.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973004#Comment_121973004

Millennial teachers who've realised they're being taken advantage of and shouldn't have come back to Ireland.

lmk123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973344#Comment_121973344

No it’s not just my opinion, it’s a matter of fact that teaching is a good job when compared to many other jobs, seriously how could anyone even begin to argue otherwise. I don’t need to be a teacher to know the pros and cons, same way for example I don’t need to be a blocklayer to know the pros and cons of that either. Going by your logic nobody should have an opinion on who will win the all Ireland this year except for county players.

My other point is that salary, pay scales, contract conditions, working hours, holidays etc. are available for all to see before getting into the profession, as they are for most of the public sector but teachers think they should be treated differently to the rest (getting recognition for working abroad).

It might be time ye realised that, maybe, just maybe it’s not everybody else that’s wrong on this one.