The media unquestioningly accepting the whingeing of teachers.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2024/04/01/by-friday-im-so-tired-i-can-barely-see-straight-the-rise-of-long-distance-commuting-teachers/

FFS, a major newspaper running this story just because it's a teacher. Driving 80 minutes is something many people do, but they have to do it far more days a year than a teacher will have to.

ednwireland

i thought they were all moving to dubai

Icemancometh

The home after 5pm bit is gas. But I used to do that type of commute, its wearing. Definitely a problem for Dublin schools getting staff.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058344796/the-media-unquestioningly-accepting-the-whingeing-of-teachers

It's Easter the teachers have the stage so they put their story to the forefront.

They are unionised unlike a lot of others doing similar commutes so they use the union structures to make their point.

To be fair those kind of long days are very wearing and it's a point well made.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058344796/the-media-unquestioningly-accepting-the-whingeing-of-teachers

They're not running it just because it's a teacher.

They're running it because it's part of the larger story of teacher shortages in Dublin, the ASTI conference in Wexford, and the housing crisis.

I did a 2 hour commute for a few months, then I changed jobs. Not worth the time and the cost. No wonder teachers are leaving Dublin.

keeponhurling

I couldn't really disagree with any of the article. It's a tough slog and explains why many just don't do it. Teachers are just a good example of jobs that cannot be remotely, among others.

Obviously the core problem here is the housing crisis though.

Increasing salaries (generally, not just for teachers) is only a short term fix, and indeed only escalates the inflationary problems.

You only need to look at any of the threads running about the current government, Leo, or new Taoiseach Harris to sense people's dissatisfaction.

blackwhite

She's working in Stepaside and decided that Portlaoise was a good place to be commuting from?

Wicklow town or even Arklow would be similar prices for equivalent housing and be a much easier commute to Stepaside.

Even Gorey would be a better commute to there than Portlaoise.

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969170#Comment_121969170

In fairness to her the artice states: "Living in Dublin is not affordable, she says, so she looked along the M7 for a place where she could commute to south county Dublin and also go back to her home county of Limerick to see friends and family."

So she still wanted to be close enough to family etc which is understandable.

Kurooi

It's like watching infants, throwing fits at every little inconvenience. I swear we need a show where a teacher has to do any other job for just 1 day. Stock shelves, admin paper work, whatever. I'd put money on them having a mental breakdown and crying by afternoon. There will be zoomed shots of them crying when they hear they need to work past 2pm. This one will go wild hearing that she doesn't get to be home by 5, she has to work until 5, and that's on a VERY GOOD DAY.

kowloonkev

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969191#Comment_121969191

Then it's her choice. She could have lived in a lot of places within an hour of work but decided not to.

SuperBowserWorld

Very hard job, long commute and babysitting spoilt, entitled kids, for people who are working from home and on way larger salaries.

The housing crisis really makes it clear what is a poor salary these days. It's shocking. Terribly bad play by the government.

People who think it's ok, definitely are not recommending that their kids go into teaching.

This is how a fair society dies.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969209#Comment_121969209

I'd like to see the opposite.

Leave your job stocking shelves and be put into a room with 35 teenagers and try to teach them Irish.

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969220#Comment_121969220

I bet stocking boys would have more drive for the job than teachers. And at least many of them have just passed their leaving cert so the standard would be much higher.

gym_imposter

RTE has always been a mouthpiece for public sector unions, Beit teachers, guards or nurses etc

Eoinbmw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969218#Comment_121969218

It amazes me the amount of teachers children that decide to take up teaching considering its so so hard!

All those 183 days a year of sheer torture!

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969220#Comment_121969220

If you've spent years in teaching college learning how to teach Irish to a class of teenagers then you should be prepared for it. You'll have done teaching practice throughout your course too.

It's not quite the same as someone going in blind.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058344796/the-media-unquestioningly-accepting-the-whingeing-of-teachers

I read the article aswell and thought it was pathetic. Do teachers think they are the only ones who commute to work?

She's home by 5pm so actually shes quite lucky. Most other people who commute are not even left their workplace by then.

It just seems teachers are never happy with any aspect of their job. They need to work a real world job and then they may realise how lucky they are with the terms and conditions they have

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969078#Comment_121969078

I remember the story about nurses in the Rotunda. Some found it easier to commute from spain rather than try and find accommodation in Ireland. It's a problem that all sectors are facing. And it's something that the IT regularly highlight with articles about different professions.

hotmail.com

Teachers only seem concerned about Gaza.

hotmail.com

Primary school teachers get 14 weeks off a year and secondary get 18 weeks off a year.

The woman in the article is living in a teacher bubble.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969280#Comment_121969280

I'm sure the course teaches you how to teach.

Does it teach you how to handle 35 teenagers in an overcrowded classroom, when some of them have poor language skills, some have mental health issues, a mix of cultural backgrounds, socio-economic backgrounds, some with violent behaviour etc etc.?

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969315#Comment_121969315

If you're not suited for that situation, then seek another job.

Plenty of talented people will be able to deal with the situation you quote and keep control of the class.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969315#Comment_121969315

That's the name of the game. If folks don't like it then don't become teachers or look for another job.

In a past life I managed a team of 30 adults in a multi national. I dealt with poor language skills, mental health issues, a huge mix of cultural backgrounds, even cases of violent behaviour. I didn't get the summers off though. I also realised I didn't enjoy it anymore and changed career…

SuperBowserWorld

The cost of accommodation + the fact that some people can work remotely have been two huge changes in the past 5 years.

Rethinking my previous response, why do teachers need to work/commute to Dublin at all ?

There will be a lot of demand with more people who have kids working remotely and also a huge influx of immigrants and their kids who can't afford to live in Dublin either.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058344796/the-media-unquestioningly-accepting-the-whingeing-of-teachers

Driving 80 minutes is something many people do, but they have to do it far more days a year than a teacher will have to

The fact that we accept this as 'the norm' is a bigger issue but punching down is easier.

BrianD3

Good one today. Teacher moves to UAE as "he was made an offer that was too good to turn down" and "the school which offered him a job agreed to pay for his flights and find him accommodation". Now, 4 years later he's back, aged 42, and wants incremental credit for years spent in the UAE. House prices have increased in the meantime and he's "devastated". Claims he can't get a mortgage at all now but implies that if he had 4 extra years' of increments, he could.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/im-devastated-my-wife-and-i-are-wondering-why-we-came-back-teachers-four-years-work-in-dubai-not-reflected-in-pay/a1514775658.html

Eoinbmw

Airports that way...

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969357#Comment_121969357

wtf did he do with his tax free UAE money that you can't even spend over in that kip? i thought people go there to pocket a load of money so that they can buy somewhere when they come home.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969357#Comment_121969357

Yep, the union reps have been spinning that line - that teachers should be able to go off to Timbuktu, earn loads dosh and then come back and slot in as if they never left. Norma Foley was asked about it the other day and deflected by talking of push/pull factors.

Of course Irish teachers should be welcome home but on the same basis as anyone who emigrates for a few years or more.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969357#Comment_121969357

That one made me laugh this morning. The level of entitlement! I actually had to do a double take to make sure it wasn't a Waterford Whisperers article.

Fr Tod Umptious

Im sure it's been said already if teaching is such a soft job why are there shortages, all over the country?

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969412#Comment_121969412

You think there would be a glut of teachers, with it being common knowledge of starting at 9, finishing at 3, summer holidays, Christmas, Easter, mid-terms, guaranteed contracts, PS pension. Sure it's a handy number.

Funny how that's not the case at all.

Sleepy

It's the same problem that 90% of other public sector roles have: salaries that are set at a national level make little sense for roles in areas which have vastly different costs of living.

A teacher living and working in Roscommon will be very comfortable. Her counterpart in Dublin will not.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969326#Comment_121969326

Thats the problem though, there arent plenty of talented people coming through. Highly competent people who do decide to train as teachers are leaving the job because they are also competent at recognising their worth. Teaching is a completely different job from what it was in the 1990s; a lot of reforms that have been introduced were necessary but a lot werent (see Croke Park hours etc). Smartphones and parents who cannot say no to their kids have also had serious effects on attention spans and discipline respectively. It has been said before but the current generation of teachers will be the 1st in our history not to recommend the job to their children. And it is the future generations of children that will suffer because the profession no longer attracts its fair share of the country's best and brightest.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969412#Comment_121969412

Who said it's a 'soft job'? I never for once said it was. It definitely has it's difficult parts.

But you know what? so do most jobs.

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969428#Comment_121969428

It's a salary thing IMO and not the actual job itself. Lots of people would get on well at it, it's just not a 'sexy' high earning career like working for a Multi National, STEMs etc etc.

SuperBowserWorld

Here's an idea...

The people who became incredibly rich by virtue of owning a house in the right area, and who do nothing for society ...

... pay more tax to pay for essential services like teachers.

If they can't afford it, they can "downsize", and the Irish Times can write a wonderful article about it.

😆😆😆

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969315#Comment_121969315

Had they never been in a classroom before or something?

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969412#Comment_121969412

Because its more financially worthwhile to head off to UAE than Leitrim?

griffin100

Teachers, a great bunch of lads. Remember when they tried to jump the queue over vulnerable people to get Covid vaccinations?

Teachers have been whining about pay and conditions for years now. The irony that they do this at conferences when they have two weeks off whilst everyone else is at work is always lost on them. They can't seem to accept the fact that their profession does not carry the kudos and instill awe in people like it once did, which is a good thing as it means they can't beat kids with impunity any more.

Teachers know exactly what they are getting into when they start out on that career path. The wages are ok but not great (unless you're a principal of a large secondary school when >€100k is possible), salaries are better when you factor in that it's a part time job (max of 166 days in a teaching year for a secondary school teacher). Yes you will have to deal with pain in the ass kids (some of whom have learning difficulties or other issues), and it's not an easy job at secondary level. If that's not for you then do somethin else. It's not like these are secrets.

Teaching is a good career choice for some, not for others. If you are happy not to live in a city then teaching is a great option as you will well be able to afford to buy a house and have a reasonable lifestyle. In fact I've tried to get my oldest kid who is at university to consider teaching, but she recognises it's not for her. Others can make that same choice.

If you want to work and live in Dublin then like a lot of people on mid level salaries you will struggle. I am in favour of a Dublin weighting for essential workers like teachers, they've been doing it in London for over a century, but Unions in Ireland will never support such a pragmatic approach.

There are still huge amounts of students doing teacher training degrees and it's now become so much easier to become a teacher, but as someone who has / had 4 kids go through primary and second level education the standard of some teachers is certainly questionable, not that they will have to answer for poor performance. And that's another advantage of being a teacher, little to no accountability. As a parent I could give lots of examples of the unaccountability and protected status of teachers some of which wouldn't be believed, I think most parents could.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969191#Comment_121969191

I think she has made a terrible decision.

She commutes every single day, presumably she isn't going down to Limerick every day. She has prioritised the occasional trip to Limerick and as a consequence made her daily commute much worse than it could have been.

Even if she goes to Limerick every weekend, surely an extra 30 mins once a week is better than a crap commute every day?

SimpleDimple

there was an article on the journal today as well about a teacher moaning that his service abroad doesn’t count towards his years service here. The level of disbelief some people have is absolutely crazy.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969218#Comment_121969218

Society will be sorry later if there's no interest in teaching

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969326#Comment_121969326

Thats the thing there's not. Huge shortage of Home EC, Science, Language and Math teachers, because of unruly classes and conditions. Many are doing what you say and taking up jobs in the private sector for far better pay, health insurance, and work from home in some cases.

So, rather than help the situation we are now left with teacher shortages, restricted choice for students and Irish teachers choosing to work abroad.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969675#Comment_121969675

It really should though. Where else would you find it that experience doing a similar job for another employer doesn't count?

The teacher in question graduated in 2012, the worst year of the recession, and couldn't get a job. He left for 4 years like thousands of others and returned to find his 4 years of experience was worthless here.

2000 vacancies in Ireland, over 4,800 Irish teachers working abroad, and half the comments here calling teachers whingers. Yah, it's the teacher's fault 🙄

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969412#Comment_121969412

Yep, there's a systemic issue when less are willing to enter nursing, teaching and the Gardai. Fundamental building blocks for a functional societ.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969695#Comment_121969695

I totally agree.

I think the penny doesn't drop with people until they have kids and are finding it difficult to find creches, schools ... or their adult kids can't afford anywhere to rent. They hope they can keep earning more to live in better places or afford private education. But that doesn't scale for a society. You have parents competing against their children. It's ridiculous. It's completely blind selfish thinking. And you see it everywhere.

SimpleDimple

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969746#Comment_121969746

I disagree here. It’s difficult to compare the teaching standards across different countries. Who to then say if you taught 3 years in a private school in the UAE its the same as teaching to the state curriculum here, with the same level of testing, scrutiny, inspections, etc. They simply don’t sync up.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969191#Comment_121969191

So she knowingly chose a longer commute, so it would make her trips home to Limerick a bit easier, but is now being granted column inches in a national newspaper to whinge about her own choice.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969795#Comment_121969795

It shouldn't count for nothing though, and the system doesn't allow for any leeway.

There are very few instances where experience in one job directly equates to another.

A nurse in Australia works under very different conditions and practices than Ireland, and their experience counts.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969800#Comment_121969800

Like a normal person she chose something that suited her specific needs. Go figure.