The media unquestioningly accepting the whingeing of teachers.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976033#Comment_121976033

Yes the govt taxes the bejaysus out of the private sector worker, to enrich the public sector and themselves.

Private sector unions are a bloody necessity for a healthy workforce and yet they have withered on the vine to their lowest ever membership as the govt correctly knows its far easier to get the public sector votes than it is to tackle business interests especially the ones paying gigantic amounts of tax.

But my point must not be misunderstood, public sector unions are an affront to democracy, for workers that pay tax get nothing and those that get paid from tax, get everything.

And in the case of teachers, although they get far more than the vast majority of private sector workers in pay and holidays, they still complain (on their tax payer funded week off).

Thats before we factor in strikes.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976033#Comment_121976033

Its not and I have argued why. The result of treating the votes equally has left one cohort (private sector taxpayers) utterly taxed to the hilt and unable to house themsevles, it has left the other rich, cossetted and arrogant.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976001#Comment_121976001

Yeah but the public sector does not at all operate by market rates. They have set themselves "pay scales and additional allowances". For instance why does a teacher with an English degree get paid the exact same as one with an in demand qualification in STEM or Home Ec?

Or why teachers that are highly in demand in Dublin city ( with high housing costs) get the exact same as ones out in the country where cost of housing is a fraction and rent is simply not needed since they qualify for a mortgage.

They don't want the hand of the free market anywhere near their champagne socialist salaries.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976165#Comment_121976165

If you want to see a privatised teaching sector, then prepare for the wallet busting cost to educate your kids. Law of unintended consequences.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976126#Comment_121976126

“But my point must not be misunderstood, public sector unions are an affront to democracy, for workers that pay tax get nothing and those that get paid from tax, get everything.”

You realise that Public Sector workers pay tax???

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975356#Comment_121975356

Where does that end though? The commuter counties would also have to be included.

purifol0

They cost tax to employ. Each one is another bill on the states books. Also the tax they pay does not in any way cover the cost of their pensions.

It's a bit like children paying a portion of their pocket money back to their parents.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976029#Comment_121976029

Polls? Really?

You can move the goalposts all you like. You implied it was only property -less teachers that dont vote FF FG L. That has been disproven on the basis of my own situation.

The public service in general has hardly been aligned with teaching unions since the crash, the most recent pay agreement aside. Unfortunately, once Forsa and Siptu decide to accept an agreement, every other union is deemed to have accepted it too.

There are a couple of politicians who, from my perspective, should be in jail (1 from Limerick and 1 from North Dublin) but they arent. People voted for them and, in the case of 1 of em, continue to do so. Hence I clearly have no idea what goes through the heads of the electorate when they vote. Nobody does. Including you. I can say with confidence though that if you think its teachers that are voting for FG, then you need to have your head examined.

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976371#Comment_121976371

I don't even know where to start with this.

Children paying a portion of their pocket money back to their parents?? If you actually believe this your understanding of the economy and taxation system is flawed (if I'm being kind). What is your alternative seeing as you seem to find using taxes to pay for public services objectionable? Or is it just that you wish those of us in employment in the public sector to cower and doff our hats to our private sector betters?

Have a read about the post 2013 pension scheme. Most public sector workers will not get out what they paid in to it.

http://singlepensionscheme.gov.ie/for-members/scheme-information/scheme-booklet/

purifol0

M8 that's bollocks. How do you know they won't get it back if they aren't anywhere near pension age. Have you bothered to factor in the massive increases in pay over this time that also positively.affects pensions?

Or that current public sector retirees are also getting a raise! Try that on your private pension. FFS

My solution would be to employ only the amount of public sector workers needed (dead wood in every sector). And pay them according to what it would cost to employ them exactly as is done in the private sector.

Also decouple politicians pay from public sector pay. This is a sick joke that Yes Prime Minister made fun of 35 years ago.

Finally public spending is disproportionately on public sector pay pensions and similar in the NGO's. Reducing headcount in the former and cutting the latter would result in lower taxes for EVERYONE. Not just raises for you lot. Of course no politician wants to cut public sector jobs in any area as other sectors will "sympathy strike"

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969746#Comment_121969746

How many obstacles are put in front of foreign trained teachers trying to obtain a permanent position? As far as I know, the Teachers’ Council makes it extremely difficult for them to register.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976201#Comment_121976201

I'd happily privately educate them. Can I have my tax cut now? The only thing busting my wallet is the state via taxes left right and centre, thieving a living off my hard work to fund you overpaid part timers.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970474#Comment_121970474

Yes, the career break should be abolished for a start. This is the main reason why there are so many vacancies but few permanent jobs.
When we’re being told how many unfilled positions there are, can we also be told how many are due to career breaks. They’re very selective with the figures they release.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976706#Comment_121976706

Teachers council also big fans of coverup whenever a female teacher is caught with a student. Identity withheld "as it would embarrass the student". Remind me again why teachers are allowed police other teachers? Same as the Law Society its an utterly rotten system. Hell even the Gardai have external oversight these days (Policing authority as well as GSOC).

hamburgham

It’s not high status any more. Teachers are having trouble accepting this. And apart from one teacher training college, standards in the rest of them are extremely dubious.

History Queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976792#Comment_121976792

The teaching council is almost universally hated by teachers, but to accuse them of coverups is a bit much. Not sure what you're talking about here to be honest.

Musicrules

Teachers have a tough job. I'd say it's exhausting dealing with a huge number kids every day, then have to prepare lessons and all the other paperwork. So they deserve the holidays they get.

This doesn't mean the job you're in isn't tough. That you don't deserve more holidays or better conditions. Housing is an issue for so many. The cost of living is a major issue. Everyone wants a better life for themselves and their family.

So how about, instead of picking on teachers, bankers, the unemployed, foreigners, accountants or whoever, we all work together to make a better life for us all? Is that not a better idea?

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971639#Comment_121971639

In that case, there shouldn’t be any objections to ending the career breaks then, should there? If I remember correctly, Norma was silenced pretty quickly when she brought it up.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976748#Comment_121976748

Few people would advocate for a totally private education system. Your taxes would likely be redistributed elsewhere, and you would likely be forced to pay thousands for your kids primary and secondary education meaning you pay a lot more, if you couldn’t afford the local rate, your kids would grow up uneducated.

I’m not a teacher, you need to give the subject more thought.

History Queen

Career breaks are only sanctioned if a suitable replacement can be found. They are granted on a one year basis. Teachers can't just decide to take them without permission. I owe my permanent position to the fact that I originally covered a career break. Career break cover allow teachers to get full time employment for a full academic year, it often gives NQTs their first "secure" contract rather than subbing.

Not sure why those figures aren't released. They must be available somewhere.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976780#Comment_121976780

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976831#Comment_121976831

Public sector pensions are both uncosted and there is no savings fund for them. They are simply taken from the exchequer.

" linked to inflation after retirement" - uhuh great excuse for taking even more of the pie. Public sector pensioners get more per week than many working folk. Oh and you forgot to mention the tax free lump sum on retirement.

"I haven't done the calculations. Accountants have."

Actuaries dear, and they say the same thing that I do. Pension is uncosted.

"I also think it's hilarious that you are going to cut deadwood from education where there is already a shortage of teachers. "

Is there a shortage of STEM and Home Ec? Sure, is there a shortage of English teachers??? Nope.

Also increasing working hours in line with the rest of the workforce (39 hour weeks) would solve that right quick. Ditto with axing a few holidays and of course making correcting exams and invigilating part of the job, not extra payments.

Successive govts have been all carrot and no stick with ye

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976897#Comment_121976897

Norma knows that worsening the conditions of a profession that is in the midst of a recruitment and retention crisis is not a logical act.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976901#Comment_121976901

I shouldn't have income tax on my labour. Believe it or not income tax is realtively new (approx 100 years). It was a result of businesses colluding with govts to reduce corp taxes and instead put the burden onto workers, but tax them at payroll so they wont rebel. Worked a charm on you.

Secondly Irish schools reputation is in tatters. Standards have fallen, covid really showed parents where teachers true priorities lie.

Ask yourself a question, why is Paschal never called by his full title? The Minister for Expenditure and Reform

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976938#Comment_121976938

I stopped reading after your first sentence, there is no debating with that Freeman of the land crap.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976948#Comment_121976948

Pathetic. Income taxes should damn well be levied on business and corporations, stop punching down on the workers and learn some bloody history.

Please tell me why corp profits are taxed @ 12.5% whereas personal taxes are a multiple of that???

History Queen

Aside from begrudgery why do you want us to work a 39 hour week? Do you want children in school for those hours also? Same for the holidays? Aside from 6-9 weeks extra work invigilating/marking what else do you anticipate we do with that time and to what end?

I personally know of 3 schools who cannot get English teachers for vacant positions right now.

Actuaries is completely correct, union employed ones as well as those employed by financial planning services all say we are unlikely to get out what we pay in. financial planners obviously biased, unions have shown no willingness to fight the post 2013 pension so can assume the projections are correct.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972222#Comment_121972222

That salary isn’t comparable to any other annual salary. It should be grossed up to reflect that fact that it’s for about 7 months work. That is equivalent to about 77k on a like for like basis.

purifol0

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976931#Comment_121976931

Nope she just doesn't have what it takes to take on the teachers union. As per usual the cost will be borne by students, their parents and the tax payers.

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972625#Comment_121972625

Nope. And my qualifications far exceed those required for teaching. It’s their non stop whinging, sense of entitlement ( when their qualifications are nothing to shout about in today’ s world) and their total obliviousness to how good they have it.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121976995#Comment_121976995

No shes just not a total moron. Her single biggest responsibility is to get a body in front of a class. Shes finding that v difficult right now. She knows that removing a perk of the job when its available across the public sector and thereby making the conditions of teaching even less attractive than they already seem to be given the shortage schools are experiencing at the moment would serve only to exacerbate the problem.

I mean, how can you argue that worsening conditions will attract and retain more staff? It doesnt make any sense.