The media unquestioningly accepting the whingeing of teachers.

read that article and it’s honestly the biggest wind up.

“I have to get up at 5am to leave the house for 6:15..” oh you poor crater

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969315#Comment_121969315

Yes. It does. The majority of a teaching course in college is actually how to handle children and young people and how to address difficulties you’ll be faced with.

If you think you go to study subjects and how to teach them for 4 years, I have a bridge to sell you.

Everlong1

Whatever about the merits or otherwise of teaching as a career. my hat is off to the OP for what must be one of the most provocative thread titles ever for Boards. In the current climate on this site I'm surprised the thread hasn't been closed down and the OP given a lifetime ban for trolling.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970262#Comment_121970262

Four years?

A PME is two years, and it teaches you how to teach your subject, with teaching practice.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970264#Comment_121970264

Tbf isn't that article largely a teacher whingeing about something that isn't out of the ordinary, and hasn't it been taken at face value by the journalist?

thegetawaycar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969297#Comment_121969297

Because they worked 2/3 days a month in the hospital. There was far more to that story than some poor sod commuting 5 days a week from spain.

hotmail.com

The teacher shortage issue is nonsense.

Why is it still taking years for secondary school teachers to be made permanent if there's so many shortages.

Union rubbish.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970474#Comment_121970474

I would say teaching unions have been saying there is a shortage of teachers since the Millenium, with a break for a few for a few years due to the recession.

Again, the media are very weak on this, they are happy to accept anecdotes or reports from the unions rather than find out how many places on teaching courses are not filled because of lack of demand.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970474#Comment_121970474

Principals have been at the forefront of highlighting teacher shortages and they have zero to gain by lying about it. Many are union members by default because there is no union for principals and deputy principals; indeed, as I recall, almost 100pc of them sided against the ASTI in 2016 when industrial action was taken.

Management in schools have a completely different role than teachers and their number 1 job is to get a body in front of a class. And, right now, in Dublin at least, that involves taking teachers out of SEN/resource or employing unqualified people because they cant get anybody else. In 1 school Im aware of, the only applicant for advertised hours was a Brazilian language assistant.

Teachers have to work their own hours for 2 years before they're entitled to a CID: thats a dept requirment. I dont understand why it's 2 years because yot would think 1 would be adequate for a principal to determine whether or not that individual is cut out for the job ( I have to assume thats the reason for any probationary period at all). Either way, because of how much more difficult the job has become as well as the housing crisis, inflation and the constant sniping from the likes of your good self that no other profession in the country has to endure, particularly at this time of year, it's no wonder our best and brightest educators (as well as lots of others besides) are foresaking the profession. The irony is it is your children that will suffer the consequences as they move through primary and secondary school as we continue to blindly facilitate, even agitate for, the race to the bottom.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970054#Comment_121970054

‘Quick! Pull up the ladder or we’ll lose our cushy terms and pensions. To hell with the new lot!’

This alone has been a master stroke by the unions. They shafted new teachers, assuaged the chance of forcing established members from any real pain (thus insulating themselves from any real criticism). Since then….The Government have been the ones purely at fault for not addressing the tiered system.

Everlong1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970364#Comment_121970364

Oh I'm not criticising you, believe me. It's refreshing to see someone getting away with a common sense / straight talking post. That kind of language is usually banned by the mods on this site nowadays as it upsets the wokerati.

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970797#Comment_121970797

It the Department wanted to change it the Union wouldn’t let them unfortunately. By the time all the ‘old system’ teachers are retired, the new system will be too embedded to change.

mikep

There's an easy fix for the shortage of teachers which is to request all the teachers taking a career break to return.

When you take a career break the employer has the right to ask you to return to suit the needs of the employer.

Imagine the wailing if that was suggested....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970314#Comment_121970314

my cousin is barely out of college two years ago, 4 year course and the majority was child care including child psychology. As well as of course placement in school classrooms.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970797#Comment_121970797

How did they 'shaft' new teachers exactly? Teaching unions accepted the Croke Park agreement (at the second asking; they rejectected it the 1st time) because they were told if they didnt, there would be redundancies. Like it or not, a union's responsibility is to its members, not future or potential members. At no point did the ASTI, TUI or INTO agitate for differing payscales or inferior pensions, that was the government of the day (FF) and then it was consolidated by the next one (FG and Labour).

I voted No both times btw, as did many of my teaching colleagues. But it passed. Why? Because members were on a hiding to nothing. Even now, teachers are lambasted for pointing out the reasons for the recruitment and retention crisis; imagine what the abuse was like in 2010 when the country was on its knees and every other major union had accepted the same penalties for potential recruits and teachers were told to put on the green jersey ffs? Teaching unions, particularly the ASTI, have fought harder than any other representatives to try and restore equality, provoking criticism and vitriol from the govt, the media and the general public every single time.

There was no shafting of new members by anyone other than the government.

nachouser

From the IT article;

"And at the end of that, it is very hard to get much more than subbing hours. Or you may find that the only jobs advertised are offering four hours a week, with the contract tied to the school, rather than to the teacher."

I'll never understand teaching in Ireland. How can the above be true, while "we're crying out for teachers" is apparently also true.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970902#Comment_121970902

There are different ways to become a teacher. The most common for secondary I believe is an undergrad (usually arts) and a 2year PME after. There's also direct courses.

Primary teaching is generally the direct route,but the 2 year courses are also available.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969104#Comment_121969104

Yep. Teachers nurses, guards , any job that has to be done onsite everyday but no housing or affordable rentals closer to the job.

Nobody should be doing commutes like that..its penal.

It's not just Teachers sure , but their union conferences are pushing it to the fore to ensure Simon and his new cabinet are fully aware that their voter base is unhappy .

hotmail.com

Why didn't teachers take a shorter summer break in 2021 and 2022 to make up for the lost time during Covid?

PopePalpatine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969049#Comment_121969049

Is there anything to be said for another session of banging pots and pans for key workers?

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970963#Comment_121970963

Quite simply, a school may need 11 hours of Irish and 11 hours of English if a full time teacher with those subjects goes on (eg) maternity leave. It is very unlikely a principal will get an exact fit for a replacement, especially with regards to Irish, where teachers of that subject are now as rare as hen's teeth, especially in Dublin. So someone will get the English hours (ie half a contract) and the prinicpal will either pull someone from SEN who is qualified to teach Irish, or employ a non qualified person or reduce an Irish teacher's hours in their second subject to make up the shortfall. Regardless, the person who gets the job is on half hours and half a salary as well.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969675#Comment_121969675

His service abroad should be recognised: as a sign that he doesn't live up to the moral standards we expect from those we employ to educate our children.

Taking advantage of a brutal regime that treats women as second class citizens and that treats many immigrants as slaves is a despicable way to dodge one's responsibility to pay tax.

Not only should we be barring those who do so from public recruitment campaigns, we should be billing them the full cost of the education we provided them with too (not just teachers though: doctors, nurses, engineers etc. should all have to face the consequences of their decision to support tyrants by working in their reprehensible "tax free" regimes).

KathleenGrant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969809#Comment_121969809

I know of a teacher (daughter's best friend) who went abroad for four years. He had a permanent job and so he returned to a job here. He is also complaining about his service not counting. Not for a job though, towards increments and towards pension and gratuity on retirement. When abroad he paid no tax in this country and I feel it is fair that he should not be able to count this service.

Benicetomonty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971062#Comment_121971062

Why would they have? It wasnt teachers that shut schools, that was Leo. When teachers were asked to teach remotely, they adapted and did it. Look what happened when concessions were offered, such as conducting oral exams during Easter: even though the Department insisted the measure would be temporary, it now seems to have been made permanent. They would have been pretty stupid to have compromised the holidays further, one of the few remaining perks of the job, given the government's form. Should nurses and surgeons have worked 24 hours a day to clear the backlog of cancelled operations once conditions were eased?

cupcake queen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970886#Comment_121970886

Teachers can apply for and take a career break only for one year at a time. They can reapply each year for up to 5 years.

Each time, the BOM will only approve the leave on the condition that a suitable replacement can be found.

It's not the case that a teacher can take a career break any time they like and stay away for as long as they please.

The teacher shortages are mainly in Dublin and in specific subjects. So the idea that unpaid career breaks are at the root of the issue is a red herring.

BaywatchHQ

Teaching is a fairly handy high status career, this is why it is so popular with GAA players. I often wonder if they go into it for the wrong reasons and end up hating their job.

I never had a good experience with teachers. They would hassle me for having some facial hair, even making me shave my goatee at school. The irony is that facial hair is the norm now and many teachers would have beards.

BaywatchHQ

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969220#Comment_121969220

If they don't enjoy that then they chose the wrong career. Surely teachers knew what they were getting into given that they went to school themselves.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971062#Comment_121971062

Why didn't everyone taking PUP during covid pay it back?

Because they didn't have to.

Hyperbollix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969220#Comment_121969220

From my recollection of own Irish teacher for 5 long years, it was no trouble to the wizzened old crone. She swanned in every day, told us to open whatever page of whatever book, picked students at random to read paragraphs of it and then asked us questions on it. If you passed the tests from September to May, great. If you didn't, tough shít.

Like all teachers, she was unsackable and immovable. A privilege alien to shelf stackers.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121969372#Comment_121969372

He isn't a maths or accounting teacher anyway, thankfully.

Are there any other jobs where you can leave the country for 5 years, blocking your replacement from taking a permanent job, and then waltz straight back into the role?

Also why is that called a career break, none of them take a break from their career. They carry on their career in another country.