https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2024/04/01/by-friday-im-so-tired-i-can-barely-see-straight-the-rise-of-long-distance-commuting-teachers/
FFS, a major newspaper running this story just because it's a teacher. Driving 80 minutes is something many people do, but they have to do it far more days a year than a teacher will have to.
The attitude of "you could have it worse, appreciate what you got" doesn't apply in our labour market, and frankly reminds me of the "you should be happy you have a job" attitude from 2010.
Fortunately many people know their worth, which is why we have so many staff shortages in Ireland. Young people have realised the civil service and Irish SMEs are treating them poorly and their skills are more appreciated and rewarded abroad, or with MNCs.
Ireland will continue to have critical skills shortages until the country starts offering competitive packages and gets the housing crisis under control.
I don't think that teacher was naive to think his experience would count in the Irish system. He was naive to think the Irish system would help him in any way.
Also, regarding your civil engineer example, the county council don't have a near monopoly on civil engineering, like the department of education have in teaching. It's not the same.
Tbf the gobshíte that thought 4 years working abroad should count towards his irish experience really needs a better education himself.
They are neither the cause nor the solution to the teacher shortage
Not saying you're wrong but I am curious on this.
A teacher shortage implies that schools cannot fill teacher vacancies.
So how would teachers going on career breaks not at least be a contributory factor in teacher shortages? If teachers couldn't go on career breaks, then by definition there'd be more teachers available at any one time, and therefore the shortage would be at least less than it is today?
No?
I didn’t compare every job, I compared the profession which moans the most, I simply made the point that if they had to work an actual hard job that they might appreciate their own job, I also don’t have to compare it against “the worst job”, teaching is a good number when compared to many jobs.
Regarding your second point, I have no idea where you got the idea that I was saying people shouldn’t be paid more, I said that you have to start at the bottom in the Public Sector and work your way up, to the best of my knowledge this is correct in most cases, I can give an example, if a person has worked as a Civil Engineer abroad for 15 years and then moved home and got a job with the council they will start on the bottom of the of pay scale, why should teachers be any different.
Before any smart a**e says it, I didn’t become a teacher because I hated school and would rather put pins in my eyes than spend my life working in one.
The comprehension skills of some here display a frightening need for teachers.
I really hate this sort of comment.
You can't compare every job against the worst job and everyone has a right to fight for better conditions in their own job.
Also, regarding wages, there should be no point where people stop looking to be paid more for their work. I doubt anyone has ever turned down a pay rise thinking "well I get paid X above the average and that's enough for me". To think any different is laughable.
There was a brief appreciation for teachers when parents had to attempt to teach their own unbearable little sh1ts during lockdown, we are back to dumping on teachers again. Mainly a jealousy/grass is greener thing.
Teachers get a fair salary for a shorter work year. They have summers, Easter, Halloween, Christmas off. If they were to work the equivalent as a public or private sector nurse/IT professional/any other job with 30days holidays it would be underpaid. Is there anything stopping them - contracts wise - to work other jobs during the summer?
but sure that’s not the teacher pay scales at all.
Already did.
If they had to spend 1 week in the pi**ing rain on a building site or farm breaking themselves up to make a wage (if you’re lucky) they might appreciate what they have.
Grass can sometimes be greener...I actually left teaching to go farming and run a business....
A local man I work with died recently, found out he did the same
Teachers are right to fight for what they can, otherwise its just a race to the bottom....if they are required to have postgrad qualifications (with the cost and opportunity cost that comes with that) + an ever increasing list of responsibilities with **** all in the way of any real discipline or consequences for continuous misbehaviour and told they are professional why should they be grateful that they are not being "broken up" as you put it?...who in their right mind would put in the effort to do that for **** wages and increased chance of speeding up their physical degradation?
They invested the time and effort to go get a job (sometimes with years of uncertainty and much poorer levels of pay than everyone assumes they are on from the payscales) where they wouldnt get broken up or theres a much lower chance of it (at least in a physical sense) and that society seems to want done
Many of them have worked a lot more than a week at all manner of other jobs by the way...including building, farming...they are people too you know....not aliens that were transported here to earn more wages than labourers with no justification
Its a lot different in most classrooms now than even the fairly recently qualified recall
Add to that your perception of what is going on in a classroom as a teenager would be very different to that of an adult...teenage brains an adult brains are two significantly different types of brain for the most part
I always laugh at people who think because they sat in a classroom at some point in the past think they have an iota about what the job is really like...or indeed how much in can vary ftom school to school never mind from 20/30/40 years ago etc
My advice would be to go and retrain as a teacher. It's clearly your dream job, based on your posts about how handy and well paid it is.
You're welcome 😊
what huge pay rise for teachers this year? - typical rises in ireland for 2024 are projected to be about 4.33% for unionised private sector workers
"Organisations are planning an average basic pay increase of 4.11% for 2024. This breaks down into a planned increase in 2024 of 3.94% in unionised organisations versus 4.33% in non-unionised organisations. The lower increases in unionised companies is a trade-off for predictability."
If teachers were getting massive pay rises one would imagine there would be no shortage of staff, the real problem is taxes here, house prices, the cost of rent, job security, part time hours contracts and long commutes
https://www.cipd.org/ie/knowledge/reports/private-sector-pay-survey/#:~:text=Projections%20for%202024&text=Organisations%20are%20planning%20an%20average,a%20trade%2Doff%20for%20predictability.
Yep…exactly
And in reference to the title of the thread, the media unquestioningly accepts the bashing of teachers too when it suits them.
All about that sweet sweet advertising revenue!
Post the source link please
Ahahaha
As per the OFFICIAL SOURCE teachers are paid about 13K more than the industrial average, they also work half the time.
So yes it is big money when you factor in the holidays, the job security, the pension, the complete lack of professionalism, the additional payments, the side gigs (untaxed grinds).
Oh and you mention the recession cuts, yet omitted all the many MANY raises they've had since, including another huge one this year.
My stats aren't made up, your lies of omission are.
Because the Emirates is no place to build a life?
There is some merit to what the teachers are asking for generally, but incremental credit for time working to their own advantage overseas, is not something that should be conceded.
All other unification of pay scales and restoration of allowances to the system that pertained pre-2011 should, however, proceed.
There is absolutely no justification in this climate, in this economy and in this recruitment crisis for retaining any sort of teacher apartheid, or holding back full restoration of FEMPI and other cuts.
Teachers live on a different planet, I say that having immediate family and friends who are teachers. To the best of my knowledge you have to start all Public sector jobs at the bottom of the scale and work up from there. If they had to spend 1 week in the pi**ing rain on a building site or farm breaking themselves up to make a wage (if you’re lucky) they might appreciate what they have.
I suppose eventually it becomes difficult for some to live inside the walls and ignore the massive divide between western lifestyles and local restrictions. I’m sure for many it’s not where they want to raise a family.
42k is not the starting salary, the years of temp work have already been covered in this thread.
Regarding the overall pay on pg15 It always amazes me how people think 50 or 60k is big money for a profession job and decades of experience.
By the way, those pay increases are coming off the back of a pay and pension cuts during the recession. Public sectors workers are just about back where they should be.
teachers in dubai are getting generous tax free wages (which they can save up for irish house deposit or foreign apartment), free flights, accommodation, training, promotion opportunities, bonuses, respect, specialised staff to discipline students, etc.
why would they want to come back unless they get incremental credits for the 4-10 years they are not in the country
Come on, he was working in the only category of school not recognised. With a tiny amount of due diligence he could have avoided the situation he is in.
He has not been wronged at all.
Then he says he is heartbroken, which is the kind of language used around a genuine tragedy, and alleges he has been discriminated against.Now we all lose perspective about our own hardships at times, but that’s ridiculous.
And the Independent are as bad for indulging him when he really needs to see where the blame lies and realise how small his problem really is.
Get to ****, 42K is THE STARTING SALARY, the average is €57,000!
This doesn't even factor in the massive raise they all ( entire public sector) got this year.
For more here is the official amounts for public sectors
https://www.ipa.ie/_fileUpload/Documents/PublicSectorTrends2023.pdf
Page 15 is an eye opener folks!
Did you even read the story?
He could only apply to see if his experience was valid once he got the job in Ireland. He only found out once he got his first pay packet, and there's no way to appeal the decision.
Seems like an archaic set up.
And tell us - in this past life were you paid a sum total of 45K or so per year (average pay of a teacher) for managing these 30 people? The salary of teachers in comparison to the responsibility of the job is completely out of whack.
Im a teacher thn can see both sides of the fence, i worked in construction in a trade before crash, then retrained asa teacher for 5 years. Very hard to get permenant jobs though, but i knew I would be taking over the family farm from my father more or less full time from 2011 onwards, so I really only wanted sub work or maybe take a job in a very good school if it landed on my lap.
I definitely wouldnt recommend teaching to anyone without a side hustle. I love it because it is great pay for the likes of me with a second income and if your in a school with few discipline issues its money for jam most days. Now in saying that my longest commute was 1 hr 15 mins which was a bit tough but not overly so. i used leave the house at 7:30 , while my friend a tradesman was already on site starting work at 7:30 in Dublin having left home at 5:30 am. Yeah i have plenty of work to get done each morning before I go and same in evenings but most schools run 4 and half day week now, and your only 4 weeks from a bank holiday weekend or mid term break or 2 week holiday etc.
Now like i say the caveat is i pick and choose my schools and sometimes like the long commute i did, ill take a good reputation school over a local one thats a jungle, and yes they always are near enough easy to predict whats its like as a school from its reputation. On the whole I wouldnt recommend it if you are trying to buy a house etc which im not, very stressful in some schools id imagine. Its a career thats going to become casualised i think over next decade. I wont deny probabaly down to people like myself although i do love the subjects i teach at the back of it all and get on great with 90% of students I have thought.
The Independent is as bad for unquestioning parroting of teachers nonsense.
They have a story up about a teacher who is, I quote “heartbroken” that four years teaching in Dubai are not reflected in his salary now he has returned.
It is incredibly silly to find out now, not to have bothered doino his research before going.
Now he’s just a man who made a very stupid mistake, but the Indo are implying that it’s some kind of miscarriage of justice.
A sensible journalist or editor would have made sure he was gently told that it wasn’t a story, it was just a stupid mistake on his own part.
Lol. Yeah parents shouldnt be allowed to have an opinion on their childs education at all.
Some amount of arrogance in that job.
The parents have every right to engage teachers and schools.
We all only experienced our own class in my school, and experienced it from the perspective of a student, not a teacher. Personally I have no experience of other classes in other cities or counties. I'm sure conditions in Castleknock are very different from Coolock.
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