Audi CEO: sale of ICE cars will collapse in 2026

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002273#Comment_122002273

That sounds true, but it's not. Lots of variations in the market. Like Electric Ireland who have one of the highest standing charges in the market, also one of the most expensive day rates and a middling night rate. Energia would be cheaper than them across the board.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002273#Comment_122002273

my day rate is 25c, and about 50 percent of the usage is over night funnily enough if you charge your ev at night that happens 😂

Sounds like you need to shop around

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002078#Comment_122002078

Also, most petrol cars would be lucky to get 35mpg in urban driving. To get 10c per km, you're looking at something closer to 50mpg (for example, a 2013 Yaris averages about 35mpg combined)

My old petrol car was getting about 12l per 100km in short urban runs, I replaced it with an 8 year old leaf for the short trips and the savings in fuel paid for the cost of the Leaf.

Kept the petrol car for the long trips we do a couple of times a month and as a 2nd car for when we need it.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002334#Comment_122002334

What plan are you on? (out of curiosity as we're due to renew soon and that sounds like a good option)

Buddy Bubs

Mat Watson video on the topic. Haven't watched yet so I don't know the results

https://youtu.be/Ur47okU3eUk?si=cIGZSTHyNxZhJD7s

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002349#Comment_122002349

it was the recent renewal of the bwg flogas plan, I was on the previous one as well, there are a few good threads to keep an eye on I'll dig out the links!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058235650/switching-electric-gas-providers-see-first-post-for-links

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058226818/best-electricity-plan-for-new-ev-owners

Akrasia

Thanks Cyrus

denismc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002065#Comment_122002065

I wonder was Matt Watson following this thread?

Is Unkel Matt Watson?,🤔

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002273#Comment_122002273

With Pinergy you pay 5c night rate and you get a €100 welcome bonus. The day rate is 41c or something like that, but I never buy anything but night rate

Charging my BMW i3 from empty to full for 100-150km range, costs me €0.80. Would be about the same for an old Leaf / Fluence.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001153#Comment_122001153

People need choice, but there are those here and in Government who would love nothing more than to remove this choice and remove ICE from sale tomorrow if they could and one big reason is they're big tech heads and feel piston power has no place in 2024 simply because it is old tech. Emissions aside for a moment, there are genuinely people who believe we must have the latest and greatest tech for no other reason than because it's the latest and greatest in their minds and all the tech and screens appeal to many tech heads, those who must have the latest iphone etc.

The technology needs to progress naturally and when it's good enough at a good price people will swap, I did it mostly because I'm nuts at the best of times, I certainly wouldn't have bought a Leaf, an i3 or a much more expensive id3 tour 5 if there weren't some screws loose.

For the majority of people cars are something to transport them and their families and they are just tools nothing more and people need to stop judging others and respect their decisions whatever they buy, banning ICE or whatever cars people want will just force more and more to keep their cars longer and longer.

Of course you won't be able to drive an EV and in 10 years have the same range, you'll be even more limited and fast charging will get slower and slower as the internal resistance of the battery increases, it could even reach the point where acceleration is effected too if it degrades even more.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001119#Comment_122001119

There's a lot more company cars in Germany and a Lot more expensive cars than you'd see in Ireland, again, a lot of company cars.

IF the ICE ban goes ahead, a couple of things may happen, the E.U car industry dies unless it blocks Chinese EV sales. That won't happen because China will probably block luxury car brands from Europe. Either way the E.U car industry will be severely f1cked due to the higher costs to make EV and competition from Chinese electric cars.

German car companies are good to work for pay well part of the reason they cost more. If we support Chinese electric cars we're really supporting the fact a lot of employees work in **** conditions and very long hours not to mention the environmental concerns from buying Chinese cars that don't care about anything environmental. This is what we're going to support because the European manufacturers will not be able to compete with such a loss of revenue from ICE cars.

Unless, Efuel saves the day then ICE ban isn't going to happen which is the most likely outcome, a 2035 ICE ban isn't going to happen either in Ireland or anywhere else.

sh81722

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003320#Comment_122003320

How about a new Arteon vs. new ID.7? It would not make much sense in my mind to spend my hard earned on anything new but an EV.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001243#Comment_122001243

You're deluded if you think a lower to run 60 Km range car offers freedom to lower income people/families who can't drive further and fill up in a min or two, servicing doesn't cost a bomb if you have a cheap car and a lot of people can do it themselves. I used to do most maintenance on my diesels except timing belt, Oil and filters every 15K kms is not several hundred a year from an indi.

What is low income these days, under 40 K ?

As I said before where's the cries to bring back our depleted forest, I mean real trees not spruce for industry ? this would be more productive than trying to get people to change to a tech that doesn't suit them or is the real reason getting everyone into modern tech or lowering emissions ? what do people think is the best way to achieve lower emissions, trying to convince people to drive EV or Farmers to plant trees ? all our forest is long gone and what a shame that is but people think that trying to convince people to buy electric cars is the best way to lower emissions ?

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003320#Comment_122003320

Add to this the depreciation, my id3 tour 5 has lost a lot on depreciation and the extra range of the larger battery hasn't held any value more than the lower range battery.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003261#Comment_122003261

You forgot to factor in high depreciation on the EV, my id3 tour 5 with 77 Kwh battery has as much value now as the 58 Kwh roughly same mileage lol. I won't be stung again. This is my 3rd EV. I'll either keep it or buy a ICE with much nicer interior.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003449#Comment_122003449

what's the depreciation curve on an id7?

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002997#Comment_122002997

He might even get accused of trolling and get a thread ban lol.

Cost to buy vs cost to run vs range.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002873#Comment_122002873

Yeah like the rest of them the cheap 9 hr off peak is gone replaced by new more expensive peak rate and only 4 hr EV rate lol.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002339#Comment_122002339

Nonsense, I've driven a 1.0L Yaris both 2015 and 2000 version and got way higher than 35 mpg imp mpg that is, more like 5.2 L/100 km or 54.32 imp mpg. I have seen higher mpg out of the yaris 1.0L.

Our 2.2 L diesel outlander could only dream of such economy.

Even my mothers Ford Fiesta 2010 1.4 L Torque converter auto can't do more than 6.6 L/100 kms no matter how you drive it. That's 42.8 imp Mpg

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001243#Comment_122001243

What is a low income salary these days 40 k and below ?

Anyway, ICE doesn't cost hundreds a year to maintain if driving 15k kms or less, if I were a low income car buyer with a family, mortgage, bills, my concerns would be the cost to buy and the cars ability to bring me anywhere I wanted without restriction that being range and recharge times.

MY missus has a Opel Cross country as a courtesy car while the Outlander waits for clutch slave cylinder and clutch replacement, the bings and bongs infuriate her as the car constantly beeps at here to keep in lane despite here being in lane, she said she'd definitely not buy a modern car if this is what they do, many think the same, tech is grand and all until it becomes annoying.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122001285#Comment_122001285

How about the simple fact is that no matter what you or I think about people who choose to buy EV or not , the simple fact is that they drive what they want to drive and their decision should be respected. ?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122003564#Comment_122003564

Who's disrespectful?

If someone doesnt like BEVs that's fine, but if they don't know anything about them, have never driven one, and are misinformed about what they are like to own, then there is nothin wrong with trying to convince them with reasoned arguments.

My mother, for example hated the idea of modern electric cars, then I lent her my Leaf for a few days and she absolutely loved it. Her opinion changed completely after experiencing what it's like to own one.

She will keep her current petrol car until it needs to change, but her next car in a couple of years will probably be a used MG4 or similar

micks_address

Back to the original post - i do wonder will much of the anti ev sentiment dissolve later this year.. with most companies committed to phasing out petrol/diesel models people will have to make a change at some point. I've quite a few friends asking me lately about evs and charging and all that goes with it. I don't think its lost on them that its a better time to buy this year than last year with prices down and who knows what they will be like this time next year.

When i bought my id4 in 2022 i thought by now we'd be much closer to ice cars being harder to trade in and losing value due to everyone knowing they are 'on the way out'

n.d.os

Presenting a sleek, brand-new EV to any skeptical EV critic today is a surefire way to win them over. Despite their online claims of avoiding EVs, once a well-dressed salesperson extols the virtues of these vehicles, the critic’s resolve crumbles, and they become eager buyers. Whether this phenomenon is positive or negative remains uncertain, but it’s a recurring observation in my experiences throughout life.

liamog

Mod Note: There's a thread for comparing the costs of a new EV vs an old car, use it. Don't derail another thread into that rabbit hole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058327728/did-it-ever-make-sense-to-move-from-an-old-combustion-car-to-a-new-ev

Akrasia

I think the real nail in the coffin for ICE cars will be when more and more cities give more and more preferential treatment to zero/low emissions vehicles. If Ireland bans ICE cars from the major cities in 2030 (or charge them hefty congestion charges), well, that's in 6 years time, If I buy a car today, and I want to sell that car in 2027, the potential buyers of that car will be thinking 'can I sell this car in 3 years time if everyone in Dublin wants to get rid of their ICE cars and buy electric all at the same time?

by 2027, in 3 years time, there will be Loads of BEVs on the used market at all price ranges. You could have low milage Hyundai Ioniqs with 90% battery health on the market for 5-10k,capable of 150km motorway miles. you'll have brand new Dacia BEVs for sale for the same price as a new ICE supermini, and if you're prepared to spend over 10k, you'll have all early VWs and even a few 2017 Teslas starting to drop to 15-20k price range.

In 2027 If I had to choose between a 15k ICE diesel that I might struggle to offload in a few years time, and a 2020 VW ID3 with 350+km of reliable range, that would be exempt from any congestion charges or restrictions across Ireland and Europe, I know which one I'd go for.

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122004336#Comment_122004336

When i bought my id4 in 2022 i thought by now we'd be much closer to ice cars being harder to trade in and losing value due to everyone knowing they are 'on the way out'

Irelands incredibly poor charging infrastructure significantly hinders mass EV adoption. There's lack of provision and clarity of planning policy regarding on-street charging solutions for potential EV owners who don't have off-street parking.

Even when destination chargers are available, there's not enough of them, they're unreliable (not working or blocked by ICE cars), or extremely slow, and pricing transparency is poor. This creates inconvenience and anxiety compared to 5-minute refuelling of an ICE. Without knowing how long they might have to wait for an available charger, potential EV buyers are understandably discouraged.

The government has failed to tackle misinformation and educate the public about EVs.

People will argue that it's illogical to buy a car for the 1% of outside bubble driving events but some people will continue to buy ICE to avoid 1% inconvenience.

There are a lot of people who will never afford to buy a new EV and will have to settle for 8 year old or more car. Battery warranties currently last about 8 years on average. What happens if someone with lower socio-economic income buys this aged EV and something happens to the battery? When 1 cell fails in a battery the entire pack fails, costs of repairs out of warranty are currently high. I'm not aware of any independent HV specialists in Ireland who could repair outside of a dealer network.

Some people listen to stories about old leafs with high degradation/low range and paint all EVs as the same. Thankfully modern EV's battery chemistry and battery management systems have significantly improved in recent years so degradation and range loss will be much less of a problem in the future.

Hotblack Desiato

Meanwhile thousands of people have bought secondhand diesels and had the DPF or DMF fail, or the timing belt snap…

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121999807#Comment_121999807

I didn't miss that, because it is a whole load of bollox and about as accurate as deciding that teleportation is the safest mode of transport because we have no recorded deaths due to it.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121967921#Comment_121967921

There are Diesels with more than that too…..