Audi CEO: sale of ICE cars will collapse in 2026

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981288#Comment_121981288

I got 134 kw charging in France during the summer. Max speed is 135. It might not be the fastest out there but it’s far from the slowest. Moot for us anyway as rarely need to charge in public with that big battery.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970456#Comment_121970456

Even if they were cheap to purchase you'd probably end up with 60 Hp 28 Kwh battery and 50 Kw DC charging or average 30 kw. Cheap doesn't make them viable alternatives in my opinion.

When EV can do what ICE at the same cost then sure. But people are sensible and not willing to shell out 40-70 K on a new EV, this would be much better sitting in the bank locked away for xx years on the highest interest saving investment you can get. A lot of people aren't willing to go out and spend 40K on a car that depreciated heavily.

Many people are buying on PCP buying much more expensive cars than they would have in the past because Hire purchase and bank loan tell people the horrors of new car costs where as PCP just fools people into thinking they pay 450-500 a month and there's no balloon at the end, and the end does come or people will be endlessly paying for cars.

What can the EV do better than your Dacia from a cost saving perspective ? nothing, what can it do a whole lot better ? refill in a few mins and go way further on a tank of fuel.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973480#Comment_121973480

Many EV owners insist that they drive the best most technologically advanced planet saving cars and anyone who drive ICE should be practically jailed for crimes against the planet.

There are EV owners who simply think that everyone should drive EV because it suits them because they're enthusiasts and would gladly see ICE put off the road and support government proposals to do the same and restrict access to city and towns , they would jump for joy at the thoughts of it yet all this does is penalise those whose only mode of transport is ICE and can't afford to spend 5K let alone 40-70 K on an EV.

There's a long life left in the ICE whether we choose it or not, the people of the World are not going to tolerate an inferior mode of transport, we live on a small Island and our travel by car is greatly restricted unless we want to take ferries all the time but in many other countries they're not going to tolerate anything less than ICE style range and recharge times.

Good 2nd hand cars but not ICE replacements.

electricus

🤷‍♂️ You want to use efficiently generated electricity to hydrolyse water at less than 50% efficiency, to make some vapourware e fuel with further losses, only to to burn it at 20% efficiency?? Why, because you think charging an EV is too much of a problem?? What did they do to you in Boards jail!? 😂

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981288#Comment_121981288

Well it looks like he doesn't use it as his first car then for long family trips (to Germany)? He said his first car is a diesel. He probably mostly uses the EV for his own commute then.

Never drove to Germany, her parents will drive here though and will be here in May again ffs ( I pray for rough seas ) anyway, they wouldn't take their E-Soul, not a hope, they'll take the ICE and it's the same when they travel to different countries they will take the ICE for convenience. Aren't they so lucky though to be able to take such long trips to different countries without having to fly or sail ? we can't do this + we got **** weather lol.

I haven't been in Germany since 2019 lol.

Personally I would be a lot happier in driving a 60kWh Model 3 or Y RWD on a 5k km trip round Europe than a similar priced 82kWh ID.3 for the much faster charging and the SuC network. And I thought the ID.3 can't charge very fast, even if you pay extra for the optional extra charging speed?

ID3 77 Kwh can charge at 130 Kw and hold high charge for a while, I only saw this once when plugged in at 7% never saw it before or after, plug in from 20% and above and you will see around 60 Kw max, a joke but all that aside, the infrastructure is a pain and you just can't beat the convenience of the ICE for range alone.

Edit, a quick google would suggest that an ID.3 with the optional faster charging doesn't really get more than 100kW? That was fast 12 years ago (Tesla had 130kW in 2012) but in 2024 this is woefully slow. This must be why he mentioned having to stop for 45 minutes to charge. Fast charging EVs these days take only 15-20 minutes to get enough range until you need to stop again anyway

It will charge at 130 Kw at 10% or below from 20% and above around 60 Kw but the issue really is the poor network, the Island has many 45 Kw chargers, this is utter shyte. We were in Ennis last Saint Patricks weekend couldn't find a working charger but had enough to get to the holiday home where I asked the owner if we could plug in on granny and he said sure no problem I recorded the meter and will record it after lol, fair play , he didn't charge us after.

I still insist, EV perfect 2nd EV if you're willing to shell out so much on a 2nd car, alternatively a bio-fuelled Rex type system gives the benefits of EV driving with no worries ever about charging, I mean how can people have got so anti ICE ? Surely the objective is to lower emissions and if doing so means having an ICE in the car if people prefer this surely this is a great way to encourage people to EV mainly transport ? plug in at home fire up the jenny on the long trip.

people need options and need options that suit them, If I had only 1 car option and it was full EV say what I have now around 70 kwh or PHEV with 40 kwh, I'd choose the 40 Kwh no bother.

Admittedly it was probably a mistake getting the 77 Kwh, while it can get me from Carlow to Belfast doing the limits and more even in Winter and still have 30% there are many trips where it's far more inconvenient and I simply don't bother + DC charging is quite expensive now too so we take the outlander. So let this be a lesson to others, if you got two cars at home think carefully about buying a car with range you might only use occasionally, it's not worth big money with depreciation so high because I was offered low 20K on my 77 Kwh which is the same as what you can get the 58 kwh for.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981959#Comment_121981959

I escaped lol.

Yes but if hydrogen is a problem to store, and you can liquefy it in the process + suck Co2 from the atmosphere or use industrial Co2 and have green energy to generate it then why not ?

Do you seriously think if was can hardly support all the data centres on the grid that we can power hundreds of thousands of cars off the grid ?

There's a whole new breed of nuclear reactor designs on the horizon that will be vastly superior and cheaper to build and I believe we can not decarbonise without Nuclear, it's just a pipe dream, but the sooner we realise this the sooner we can make it legal in Ireland instead of being always dependent on foreign energy.

The safety concerns of Nuclear are based on 1950's and 60s technology, terrapower are working on much newer designs that are very efficient, refuel every 30 years and produce a fraction of the waste + can burn the waste stored from existing reactors. Construction should have begun already in the US on an Experimental reactor.

While hydrogen is difficult to manage and efuel even less efficient, efuel has the huge advantage of being liquid and can be used in all ICE vehicles because if you ban new ICE cars you end up with what they call the Havana effect where people will be driving 40+ year old cars because they can neither afford the EV or because they are not good enough for their needs so if we have a drop in carbon neutral fuel or even better then why not ? is it because some believe the ICE doesn't belong in 2024 and beyond or because they don't want to see it ?

electricus

Efficient for goods transport, shipping, and maybe jet fuel, but not cars. Storing and transporting liquid hydrogen requires a lot of energy, and currently there is no way to stop it from leaking.

I don’t know about e fuels but the electricity required to refine a 50 litre tank of petrol would power your ID.3 for around 550km.

Not saying it’s not impossible but maybe not the best options just because they’re similar to our current liquid fuels.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982174#Comment_121982174

Nothing is the best option for everyone not ICE or Fully electrics so there needs to be cars that suit everyone.

Yes, charging batteries is more efficient than Efuel, a lot more efficient, if we had a lot more nuclear energy then we could make a lot of efuel, the reality is that there is no way our grid can support 100% new cars to be electric in 2035 it's a pipe dream but why don't they come after the commercial drivers first ? why arent the Government putting the burden of carbon tax on the data centres instead of allowing a situation where they pay almost nothing for electricity why should we bear the brunt of the cost ? whatever Ireland does or doesn't do has no measurable effect on Co2 to begin with but the corporations are the big polluters so come after them first, stop their electricity subsidies and tax breaks and make them pay their fair share.

lawred2

Can these batteries really be produced at scale indefinitely?

electricus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982222#Comment_121982222

Based on current batteries ? probably not but the technology will continue to evolve, making use of new chemistries, solid state, higher energy density, etc.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982222#Comment_121982222

Yes. The latest gen batteries are based on sodium. Don't use any lithium or dodgy cobalt. Sodium, yes, table salt basically. Will be dirt cheap too, even cheaper than the current gen of LiFePO4, which itself has already gone done well below $100 per kWh, which can be cycled 10k times (less than $0.01 per kWh)

unkel

You still banging on about nuclear @Mad_Lad?

That horse has bolted many years ago. It's too complex and too expensive. There will be no more significant new nuclear installs planned anywhere in the world from now. All we need is solar, wind and battery. The latter can have many different shapes, like pumped hydro, chemical, interconnectors, etc. including the production of hydrogen

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982356#Comment_121982356

No need even for lithium for batteries. Sodium, yes table salt, is where the cheapest batteries are at. Not some future bullsh1t either, you can buy them right now

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982222#Comment_121982222

There are cheaper (and better) alternatives on the way. Like this:

https://www.azom.com/news.aspx?newsID=62558

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982943#Comment_121982943

“I wouldn't be interested in EV again unless there was a super charging solid state battery with at least 150 Kwh and a price of no more than 25K lol”

That’s completely fine then. Nobody has a noose around your neck but your in the EV forum. Maybe you didn’t realise.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982943#Comment_121982943

Don't know what your infatuation is with 2nd car talk, you got burnt on PCP and depreciation apparently and you are sore about it. Just buy out your id3 and ride out the depreciation curve.

I'm heading to Mayo from Dublin in a little while for a weekend away with herself and 2 labradors in an Etron with smaller range than your id3. It's not sitting at 100% at the moment either. Our 2nd car is also an EV with more or less same range as our 1st, I could do it in either of them without any hassle. Etron better motorway cruiser and the dogs have space to run around in the boot.

liamog

Mod Note: Please keep all non motoring impact of EVs (e.g. resource mining) to the relevant thread, posts moved

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252347/evs-are-worse-for-the-environment-and-other-ev-related-myths

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983072#Comment_121983072

because they are ideal 2nd cars for the majority, for enthusiasts, that's another matter, been there myself. most people don't want to sit at chargers all the time they want to go on a decent spin. What part of that do people not understand.

I didn't get burned on PCP I got burned on depreciation, that only applies if i go to trade it, it doesn't matter whether I bought it outright or got it on HP. The outcome is the same. But I know the idea for you is to make it appear like "pcp" has made me somewhat anti EV.

maidhc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983288#Comment_121983288

I have read this thread with interest. I thought you were being balanced and knowledgeable.

It’s weird that because it is an “ev forum” you can only say blindly positive things about EVs or get unhinged comments back at you. I wish people would stop.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121987753#Comment_121987753

Thanks, yes, It's funny because the EV section on boards came about to keep me away from the ICE threads from talking about electric cars maybe 15 or 16 years ago (I left boards around a year ago and recently came back) when the Leaf was a tida test mule. Back then I got into the tech from building crazy powerful electric bikes, the torque had me addicted. But there was no place for me on Boards.ie to talk openly and freely without constantly having to fend off trolls and downright bullies which was backed up by mods by having me banned from threads ( for trolling hahaha) But funny enough some of those people are here now on the other side of the fence and will bash me for talking against them in any way, funny that !

I got a lifetime ban from the Cycling threads for talking about DIY ebike building, yeah, unbelievable, all because some cycling purists got highly offended.

I could talk a lot more about what I think about it all but no point here not the time or place but anyone can PM me.

omri

my next car will have 4.4l ice, ev maybe as second car for city driving

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988539#Comment_121988539

Thread ban ! lol

kaahooters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121982222#Comment_121982222

yup

RainInSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121988539#Comment_121988539

Nice. What you picking.

omri

for ev used tesla/taycan/etron

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121983288#Comment_121983288

because they are ideal 2nd cars for the majority, for enthusiasts, that's another matter, been there myself. most people don't want to sit at chargers all the time they want to go on a decent spin. What part of that do people not understand.

They are still a bit away from being ideal 2nd cars for the majority.

Pre COVID wd were a two car family, one 7 seater (that we need as a family of six) and a second mainly for short journeys but also for occasional 100k + ones, the one I had pre COVID was a 15 year old Fiesta, prior to that a 15 year old Skoda.

The Fiesta cost me €800 , the Skoda 6 years earlier I got for definitely less than 2k, I can't recall.

For me cars are functional first and foremost, as long as they are reliable and in some way comfortable I don't care what they look like.

Anyway with working from home we got rid of the second car.

We have survived with one car but having a second would be handy.

But as much as I'd love to take the plunge with an EV there is no way I could afford one.

On a quick DD search the only second hand EVs under €4,000 are 10 years old Leafs.

And even though the prices of second hand ICEs has gone through the roof in the last few years there are still lots of options below €2000.

So as a family that would traditionally try to buy the second car with cash or savings, €4k for a Leaf is really stretching the budget.

Im sure we are not unique in this way.

The benefits of an EV might be idea for a second car, but the affordability is still not there for many to make the change.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121992361#Comment_121992361

There's a Fluence on DD for €2,000 asking, you'd probably get it for €1,500. The fuel / tax / insurance / maintenance saving alone would mean the car would pay for itself within a year.

The fact that the car hasn't sold is proof that the vast majority in the market for cheap bangernomics motoring are ignorant about EVs, or even afraid of them…

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993462#Comment_121993462

I'm more inclined to believe people wouldn't opt for the fluence because of lack of independent specialists to repair the EV specifics if something goes wrong.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993509#Comment_121993509

You don't seem to get the idea behind bangernomics. You buy cheaply and if there is anything going wrong, you dump the car and buy another one 😂

Have a look in the dedicated bangernomics thread, you will get the idea:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058183186/bangernomics-sub3k-of-the-week-day-part-7

In the case of the Fluence, you would get almost your entire purchase price back from someone interested in just the battery

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121993509#Comment_121993509

For me the main reason not to buy that Fluence or an old Leaf as a 2nd car is I'd need it to reasonavly regularly do 60 to 100km return trips and I've suffered long enough in a degraded Leaf to never want to inflict that on another especially on a cold wet winters day! I just couldn't depend on it to coverenough of the journeys I needed it for.

Obviously a great option if only used for short journeys.