Audi CEO: sale of ICE cars will collapse in 2026

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970004#Comment_121970004

They are not cheaper to purchase though.
If they were more would buy them.

beachhead

He must be well clued in on what governments are going to do to boost electric car sales.If they don't move it soon I would expect hydrogen to overtake electric.An AI experimental report or a katie?

tom1ie

Yeah this is a good point and one I’ve mentioned before.

beachhead

OK,didn't see that

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970176#Comment_121970176

Can't get them to take or don't like their offers?

denismc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970791#Comment_121970791

All these stories with dealers not taking in EVs nearly always start with " I know a guy" or " I have a friend" .🤔

My dealer rang me today to see if I wanted to trade up my Ioniq 5 for a new one, while the price they offered for mine was decent, the price of the new car was too much compared to a VW ID4 or Model Y.

sk8board

bear in mind that the Audi CEO isn’t just shooting his mouth off - he’s acutely aware of the coming many years of models, materials, tech, R&D, etc etc. the only unknown for auto manufacturers right now is government policy.

the Toyota CEO made a similar statement about EVs 2-3years ago and the airwaves filled for many weeks that this was Toyota being caught behind the times - when in reality they already knew how the economics of expensive EV car sales were going to go, and are reaping the benefits today.

Audi/VAG are just trying to shake the trees of government because of the upcoming changes in annual sales quotas of EV v ICE.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970791#Comment_121970791

Will not take it one one case (any dealer in brand or across brands), stupid low ball on the 2 year old one - vastly worse deprecation than a similar ICE car.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121971654#Comment_121971654

Stupid low ball offers are the order of the day at the moment, regardless of propulsion unit. I have recent direct experience with an ICE vehicle.

beachhead

I got a very good trade in price on my ICE in Febuary.Very happy

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970863#Comment_121970863

I suspect a lot of them are based off a specific media friendly, second hand only, dealer saying they won't take them.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970863#Comment_121970863

Cost to change the only show in town. Would be interesting to see what offers VW give you for your Ioniq 5 against a well priced id4, I bet it will cost just as much to change. Tesla you may forget about trading in. It's smoke and mirrors moving figures around. Well done for recognising it and not getting seduced by decent trade in value.

My car has technically lost about 18k from my purchase price but it's about 13k cost to change to a brand new one due to new ones now being competitively priced. Still too much of a loss for me in under 2 years to contemplate changing.

shimadzu

I've first hand experience of trying to trade up an EV at a dealership, two dealers made it clear they didn't want it and the trade in price offered really reflected that. In the end i sold it privately and moved to a hybrid. Day to day costs of owning an EV were low but significant deprecation and poor reliability really detracted from ownership in the end. My neighbor had a BMW i3 and switched to an new hybrid this year, the I3 cost him 5 grand last year in repairs and 3 grand the year before when anything goes wrong with an EV they cost a small fortune to repair. I find that many EV owners are very vested in the idea of EVs and don't handle criticism of electric cars very well, while EVs continue to improve they still have a way to go before they meet needs of all motorists. I don't think 20 months is a realistic timeline for the demise of ICE cars as most EVs are priced 40K plus with the exception of 2 or 3 cars, until the lower end of the EV market is sufficiently catered for there will still be a significant number of ICE cars sold.

shimadzu

I've first hand experience of trying to trade up an EV at a dealership, two dealers made it clear they didn't want it and the trade in price offered really reflected that. In the end i sold it privately and moved to a hybrid. Day to day costs of owning an EV were low but significant deprecation and poor reliability really detracted from ownership in the end. My neighbor had a BMW i3 and switched to an new hybrid this year, the I3 cost him 5 grand last year in repairs and 3 grand the year before when anything goes wrong with an EV they cost a small fortune to repair. I find that many EV owners are very vested in the idea of EVs and don't handle criticism of electric cars very well, while EVs continue to improve they still have a way to go before they meet needs of all motorists. I don't think 20 months is a realistic timeline for the demise of ICE cars as most EVs are priced 40K plus with the exception of 2 or 3 cars, until the lower end of the EV market is sufficiently catered for there will still be a significant number of ICE cars sold.

kaahooters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121970460#Comment_121970460

hydrogens not happening, its too expensive.

RainInSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121972539#Comment_121972539

And I got a very good trade in on my EV in January.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973482#Comment_121973482

No fuel source meets the need of all motorists. Horses for courses. Sorry to hear you experienced poor reliability. Had one issue in the past 9 years myself.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973497#Comment_121973497

Yeah I'd ignore any technology not for sale yet in making my decision on a car purchase, too many unknowns. Treat them as concepts until officially released.

If and when it's reality, then have a proper look

munchkin_utd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973873#Comment_121973873

+1

any sniff of a story about Hydrogen is jumped on by radical anti ev-ers and BMW seen as the saviour against this rising tide.

The reality is that BMW started construction this week on a new battery plant in rural Bavaria which will employ 3000 when up and running, and they are also building a multi billion euro EV and battery plant in Hungary - which is a pretty good sign that even in BMW they are seeing an Ev dominated future well before anything on the hydrogen front

https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/bau-des-neuen-bmw-werks-in-niederbayern-beginnt%2CU8laV4f

Buddy Bubs

Hydrogen cars are a type of EV / BEV anyway aren't they? Just charge battery cells with hydrogen instead of electricity? I'll admit my knowledge is very limited

denismc

I just watched a review of the new Xiaomi SU7, stunning looking car that undercuts the Model 3 in China by several thousand dollars, I can see why European and US car makers are getting nervous.

I get the impression that Chinese car makers can undercut European and US cars by quite a bit if they need to.

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121975636#Comment_121975636

Most likely because they're probably heavily subsidised. EU Commission having a look at that currently.

sk8board

can’t understand why hydrogen is even mentioned any more when discussing passenger cars. That ship sailed years ago (no pun intended), and died the day Toyota cancelled the Murai.

It could probably work for haulage, and truck companies are looking at it

Electric is really the only show in town when it comes to having an alternative to any propulsion system that has a piston engine, and that will drive improvements in price, range and tech in the coming years. (Yes you can have alternative fuels powering the piston engine, but again, petrol is an amazing fuel in terms of potential-energy/liter, and therefore incredibly hard to have a viable alternative on a mass mass scale - that’s why we’ve used it for over a century!).

IMHO, the agro at the moment (worldwide) is happening because the EV product is perfect for some, but still not evolved enough for most.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973497#Comment_121973497

For now……issue is storage mainly but they can convert it to Efuel, even less efficient, sure and it remains to be seen whether or not they can produce it in enough quantities.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121974953#Comment_121974953

Yes if using a fuel cell but most fuel cells don't have a lot of peak power available so it uses a battery.

They can burn hydrogen directly in ICE with minor modifications, storage is an issue at the moment but they can use hydrogen along with Co2 and turn it into a liquid called efuel, not efficient but do-a-ble with tonnes of nuclear which we'll need going forward if the future is EV which I doubt very much.

Some pretty amazing Nuclear tech on the horizon look up terrapower.

There's going to be a lot of very disappointed people who think we'll have enough electricity to generate all this power. Audi CEO just talking shyte to be honest.

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121979936#Comment_121979936

A hydrogen Engine with a battery like the BMW i3 would be absolutely amazing, even one that burns veg oil. This would eliminate the need for a expensive roll out of chargers and eliminate charging, I know there are the anti ICE crowd who just can't deal with the fact ICE are still in existence but the Rex was a fantastic system. Long EV range, ICE acted only as a generator no need to wait at chargers.

A rex like system is the ideal form of transport that would be far better suited to de-carbonising the private car. Has what most people still want, range, quick refill time and the eco worriers get much reduced emissions.

There's no one going to force people to spend 40K + on cars that take ages to fill up while making the most practical transport we have unavailable. I hope common sense will be restored.

remember, Ireland is a small Island and BEV is not a viable mode of transport for the mileage others do on the continent, people want to stop for all that charging to take a leak that's their business but the majority don't want to stop every 300 km to wait 40 mins for a 250 km charge when their ICE can fill in 2 mins for up to 1000 kms. EV is not a viable alternative to EV and I say this as a EV owner since 2015, I would not have one as my only car.

Mad_Lad

What

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121973480#Comment_121973480

The anti ICE crowd would try their utmost to have everyone driving a Car with technology they want others to drive and would actually support removing the ICE from purchase because they feel EV is suited for everyone and it will somehow benefit the Earth, Where is the electricity going to come from in Ireland alone if we struggle to keep the lights on as it is with the data centres sucking so much out of the grid.

Has anyone calculated the amount of energy that will be required for a change to EV in this space of time is this going to come out of a magical source of energy ? Removing from the market cars people want, it will make people drive cars that are older and older.

As I said, a BMW i3 Rex type system would have reduced a lot of emissions because people could have had 200 odd Kms range on EV and use the generator for the rest, fill up in seconds instead of 30-50 mins or more if there's a queue.

We have 2 cars one is a diesel and I'm EV driver since 2015 and I wouldn't have one if we didn't have the diesel.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981082#Comment_121981082

You're still smoking the funny cigarettes? 😂

PHEV and hydrogen never were and never will be mainstream. BEV and BEV only is the way forward for ALL transport, possible only exception is intercontinental shipping

Next time around, maybe you could try a long range EV that can quickly and easily charge? As you say you're driving EVs for nearly a decade now, but things have changed quite a bit. Doesn't even have to be a Tesla anymore to do the above, although it still is by far the best long range driving experience

fits

Mad Lad has a long range EV that can easily charge.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981199#Comment_121981199

Well it looks like he doesn't use it as his first car then for long family trips (to Germany)? He said his first car is a diesel. He probably mostly uses the EV for his own commute then.

Personally I would be a lot happier in driving a 60kWh Model 3 or Y RWD on a 5k km trip round Europe than a similar priced 82kWh ID.3 for the much faster charging and the SuC network. And I thought the ID.3 can't charge very fast, even if you pay extra for the optional extra charging speed?

Edit, a quick google would suggest that an ID.3 with the optional faster charging doesn't really get more than 100kW? That was fast 12 years ago (Tesla had 130kW in 2012) but in 2024 this is woefully slow. This must be why he mentioned having to stop for 45 minutes to charge. Fast charging EVs these days take only 15-20 minutes to get enough range until you need to stop again anyway

Mad_Lad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121981147#Comment_121981147

Well, I did feel like this place was rather dull without me 😁

BEV might be the future in a long time, what some people here think is suitable for everyone isn't suitable for everyone, there might be a breakthrough in solid state batteries but that's a long way off and it won't be cheap.

We live on a small Island and can't drive too far, there are a lot of people who can drive from country to country and can't be bothered with the hassle but EV is an ideal 2nd hand vehicle for those who can afford them. I wouldn't have EV if it we didn't have the outlander.

If this ICE ban does go ahead then a lot of people will just drive their cars longer and longer and maybe that's a good thing because we're a wasteful lot.

PHEV are ideal alternatives for single car families, but none are so good as the Rex sadly but a car the size of the ID3/4 could have a 40 Kwh battery and you sill get greatly reduced emissions and you then don't need a charging infrastructure or to hang around at chargers a perfect solution to get a lot more people driving on battery with the ICE there for whenever they need which can run on biofuel even better.

Hydrogen can be produced easy, just transport and storage are issues currently which is one reason efuels were invented and are direct petrol and diesel replacements, a long way off yet if ever but interesting alternative to alternative fuels all the same.

We're not going to decarbonise without a huge investment in nuclear.

The Anti ICE crowd are just as bad as the anti EV crowd.

I'm never paying 40K or more on cars again, it's a complete waste of money at the end of the day and If I choose to get another car it won't be EV either. That's a lot of money the Government get off me and Public charging is a lot more expensive now too.

I