2 out of 3 young adults living at home

Gary_dunne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136411#Comment_122136411

I understand that it's massively cumbersome (in the process of building myself at the moment, highly stressful and mountains of expenses before a sod is turned) however if we take the case of the 2 bed apartments in Tallaght that was previously posted for around €250k these are not only relatively affordable but more than adequate in space. If you look at 3 bed semi-d houses around there they're going for around €400k with bidding wars occurring. Financially even including the €7k fees it makes much more sense. Mortgage repayments nearly half the cost of renting a similar property and they have the asset to use to upgrade when needed.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136371#Comment_122136371

It was a simplistic example to illustrate the point. And one can always find an edge case or an outlier such as there being either a crash or a huge jump where the hypothetical couple's circumstances do not otherwise change. But that isn't really likely for the vast majority of people.

In reality, while a "crash" can happen quickly, rises are generally a bit steadier and linked more to general economic factors (in any remotely functioning market). House price rises would be accompanied by some increases in wages etc. (Your original post I responded appeared to refer to "inflation" in the general sense but I don't want to get sidetracked on that as it is the same idea).

An inflationary environment ends up being very good for those who have leveraged assets. People who bought houses in Ireland in the late 80's or early 90's generally ended up with relatively small mortgage repayments compared to their early 2000's income. The amount you owe remains fixed but the value of what you own jumps.

It is different of course for the person "cashing out". But trading up will generally be easier with the additional equity. Once you are "on the boat", the tide will have lifted what you already have, thereby hedging you somewhat to any increases.

I see sheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135723#Comment_122135723

You left out that they eat Avocado on toast.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136399#Comment_122136399

Ha, no. 2 out of 3 ain't bad though.

We have a lack of supply because we don't build enough, and haven't for years. If your logic were true we would be seeing an increase in places available for purchase.

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136399#Comment_122136399

more sympathy for landlords please. its not like rents have doubled in 10 years

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136337#Comment_122136337

Oh great. there's a factory in your town. It's the big schmoke then?

Is it listowel? Because according to google maps it's a 60-90 minute commute in the morning to limerick city. Have we become so used to commutes that we think 90 mins each way is acceptable? 3 hours a day.

In that town (and surrounds), there's a grant total of 6 properties for sale.

https://www.daft.ie/property-for-sale/listowel-and-surrounds-kerry/semi-detached-houses?redirectReason=expired

Btw, there's a whopping 49 in the whole of Kerry.

https://www.daft.ie/property-for-sale/kerry/semi-detached-houses?redirectReason=expired

So your solution for the tens, if not hundreds of thousands that are looking for a solution to the housing crises, is to move to Kerry, where there's 49 houses and apply for one of the 4 positions in a Kerry Group factory.

https://jobs.kerry.com/search/?q=&q2=&alertId=&locationsearch=&title=&location=listowel&date=

Sorry if I sounded nasty, I was trying to make a point. It seems like you have a nice life down there, but it's not relevant to the housing crises. It's a lovely part of the country. Yes, there's a couple of cheap houses there, but it's just a couple. And even if there was a thousand houses, there's no work for people to do. There's not enough spare houses to support the population of Kerry, never mind people moving there from the rest of the country.

There's a reason that property is so high in Dublin, people want to live there because that's where all the jobs are. And the jobs go there because it's where the people are. A large tech or pharma firm could relocate to Listowel but it couldn't hire what it needs. And there will never be a massive jump in demand for housing because there's not the volume of jobs there.

And that's why property is so cheap there.

There's a bigger discussion about what to do with rural Ireland. Should we be encouraging development so that everything isn't clustered around Dublin. I think most would agree that the answer is yes. But that's a long term solution, meanwhile people are struggling right now.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134030#Comment_122134030

Developers here rarely if ever build things they would willingly live in themselves. Just ugly shoeboxes for "other people" in shít locations and little or no services or facilities.

Kerry2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136552#Comment_122136552

I didn’t bother reading your response in full because you sounded so aggressive in the first couple paragraphs. I’ve a pile of property bought and I’ve a lot of tenants that are working remotely, they’ve moved from places like Dublin and Wicklow and made nice lives for themselves down here.

And yeah there’s a load of factories here, just used 1 as an example where an unskilled person working on the factory floor can make nearly €2K/week.

Also you made a lot of lies in your post that I want to correct.

1. There’s 25 houses currently for sale in Listowel and its surrounding area. The surrounding area part is important because that means houses 1km away from the town even which is a 1 minute drive.

2. There’s 341 houses for sale in Kerry.

3. My SO works in the city and it does take her 60 minutes to get there, she works from home 3 days out of 5 so spends usually 2 hours commuting each week.

4. The Kerry Group factory usually takes on the staff they need for the year at the start of the year and can’t get anyone to work there now because it’s shift work.

5. Anyone that moves to Listowel and can’t find work can come work for me

For context also the first houses I bought in Listowel have more than tripled in value already

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136597#Comment_122136597

I would say that's very generalised. I can think of plenty of new developments in good locations with existing services. Modern houses are a joy to live in, don't care what people might say about size, or gardens or architecture. Having a house that's always warm and cheap to heat is a godsend compared to the freezers built over the past 40 years.

That said, I don't live in Dublin, where people are getting royally screwed over, often paying multiples what people in other cities are paying.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136788#Comment_122136788

I was speaking myself more in relation to apartments.

Again, comparing us with the rest of the EU when it comes to compliance in living in apartment blocks needs to take into account the other factors at play.

Grayson

You didn't bother reading? might I suggest you read something before responding to it?

Because I'm not going to bother replying to someone who couldn't even be bothered reading my response.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136779#Comment_122136779

Kerry2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137138#Comment_122137138

Considering how many houses I own you should be thanking for my advice that I am handing out for free (joking!)

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136540#Comment_122136540

That’s not the issue.
It’s what a bad tenant can do to a property or if SF get there way your home.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138247#Comment_122138247

Wait til you hear what some landlords get up to…

Ireland does not have particularly overly-tenant friendly regulations by European standards.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122138665#Comment_122138665

Some LL absolutely take the piss but lots are getting out and have got out as they’re getting burned by a small cohort of bad tenants who they can’t shift and the RTB won’t help.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122137346#Comment_122137346

You still didn't bother reading?

Gary_dunne

Have rented 3 different times and all the LL's were awful, none wanted to do any upkeep or maintenance on any of the properties, would take months to get basics upgraded like a washing machine that repeatedly leaked. We had a large leather couch and 2 reclining armchairs that took up the whole sitting room and were in bits, leather peeling off, we asked for a new couch and this tiny 2 seater arrived and the armchairs were removed. There was 4 of us in the house and we now had seating for 2 in our living room and were told to buy more if we wanted more seats.

Always wanted us to feel grateful for any basic requirement and told us we were lucky to be paying such a "reasonable rent" €3.3k a month for 4 bed (attic converted into a bedroom no ensuite) and only one toilet.

First LL wanted cash in an envelope (no contract) when I asked could I do bank transfers was threatened to be kicked out. Didn't have any bins for the house and when I ordered them got a bollocking about it and was made to cancel the contract or leave. He used to store the rubbish on the balcony and throw them in others bins when they left them out to be collected.

Private LL's in my experience are horrendous and all they care about is getting their mortgage paid off on the properties. If (and hopefully I never have to) rent again I'd be looking through an official letting agent even if they were a bit more expensive so I don't have to deal with John and Mary (not real names).

ancapailldorcha

If there's one demographic I can't feel any pity for, it's landlords. My last one had me leave because I complained about cockroaches running around the cupboards and the previous house I was in was almost falling apart.

We should massively expand build-to-rent to expand rental supply without it being sold to the highest bidder. I'm almost surprised that this isn't a thing already.

shimadzu

There are so many posts online across all social media platforms about not being able to find accommodation but that rarely if ever results in large scale protests to show their elected representatives how they feel. You can't expect to sit on your arse and have the housing solve itself.

AirBnb has had a huge effect on the rental market and its not really talked about any more. It has eliminated digs for the most part it used to be common enough for a student or somebody working in a city to get a room from monday to friday for 100 euro a week that's effectively gone now with people sticking up rooms from 100 to 250 euro a night on airbnb. As a result you have a lot more competition for the already limited supply of rental accommodation.

I have a cousin and his partner that moved back home with his parents three years ago to save for a deposit, he constantly moans about the situation but in three years and two incomes they have failed to scrape enough together to allow them get on the property ladder. They have at least four holidays a year, eat out 3 to 4 times a week, have two newish cars, go out to the pub twice a week, have all the latest electronics and subscriptions to nearly every online service. There are a lot of people that are just hoping a property will land on their laps without having to make any sacrifice to their standard of living.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140974#Comment_122140974

While you're not wrong, Sinn Féin did quite well in 2020. I don't follow Irish politics all that closely but in a PR system, more people are free to vote for a party which represents their key concern. Protests don't tend to change much but I do think more people messaging their TD's regularly would help liberalise the sector.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140545#Comment_122140545

Why would a developer build residences if they aren’t able to sell them at market rate?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141044#Comment_122141044

Contract from someone else like the government or a business?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141051#Comment_122141051

What does that mean?

Beta Ray Bill

The housing crisis is easily solved, from a technical perspective.

The issue is the people whose job it is to solve it, will have their nose severely put out of joint if they do their job and fix the issue.

The problem is empty properties, excessive HAP, and the easy money issue with investing in property.

We know there are at least 12,000 empty properties in Dublin with 40% of those properties empty over 4 years, and there are over 100,000 vacant across the country.
These are AirBnB properties, Non-rental investment properties, properties that people have inherited and are just sitting on, and finally holiday homes.
The solution here is Tax. Properties that are empty for more than 6 weeks a year should be taxed at something heavy, (say 4% of their value, so for a property valued at €300,000 you've to pay €12,000 tax per annum, if it's empty for more than 6 weeks). Non-payment of the tax should result a penalty of equity in the property. (IE the state now owns 4% of the property)

No one is forcing people to hold on to properties, they're making a fortune off them. And these wealthy people are usually buddies with/make donations to the established political parties.

It should also be noted that the first thing someone involved in renting property will tell you is that they make very little money off it…. why are they doing it then????

HAP in Dublin for a lot of people is €1400 with many on the EHAP at €1800 (last time I checked). This means rent starts at €1850 for a HAP worthy property in Dublin. It should also be noted that many tenants have agreements with their land lords for additional cash payments on top of HAP (like €200 per month for example), which is against the rules of HAP. People on the HAP are desperate and are not willing to rock the boat so just pay it.

Even in my estate, the properties that were previously rented are difficult to sell as the new Landlord will not want to be subject to an existing rent pressure zone limit. The properties that were not rented always sell for a higher price as there is Landlord looking to increase their stock at the expense of a family trying to buy their own home.

We've 30 years of non-regulation and crappy business practices to fix, it's not gonna be easy from a political perspective.
If it were me, I'd announce the rules, and say they'll be coming into effect in 4 years time. That will give Landlord's time to get rid of their stock and invest in something else, hence reducing political backlash.

Dav010

No politician who harboured even the remotest hope of being elected would put forward a plan whereby owners would have to pay €12k in tax if their property was empty for 6 weeks.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141233#Comment_122141233

Should have been clearer, a 2nd property… IE not your family home.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141350#Comment_122141350

I took that for granted, you are still not going to get a vote from someone who thinks they could have to pay an extra €12k in tax, on top of all the direct/indirect taxes they already pay.

Gary_dunne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141385#Comment_122141385

You won't get votes from this section of the public but they'd get my vote and many others in a heartbeat who believe that they are locked out of the property market.

Milominderbender

The last few years have shown that the government can provide billions on a whim to solve people's accommodation issues. Why not do it for our young people?

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141385#Comment_122141385

I'd agree with you, you've realistically speaking very little chance of getting a vote from any land lord, or developer. That wouldn't matter though as most people own 1 or 0

Maybe there could be a floor limit IE say property worth less than €200,000 would not be subject to the tax and the further away you go from densely populated areas the less of a percentage of tax there would be.

To be clear though, building more properties for Landlords to buy is not the solution, a Landlord will nearly always be able to outbid a person looking to buy their own home.