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2 out of 3 young adults living at home

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    #332
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,828 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141044#Comment_122141044

    In a proper build-to-rent scenario they are looking at the investment of the rental income. Built-to-rent doesn't mean selling to individual landlords.



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    #333
    Gary_dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Gary_dunne


    "The first thing someone involved in renting property will tell you is that they make very little money off it"

    LL's forever spout this line and it infuriates me, essentially they're getting their asset worth 000k's paid for by people who often don't have any other option.

    My old LL used to always talk about how much their mortgage is when a price increase came, she had 3 houses rented out. She made out that she was the unfortunate one when I was contributing a sizeable % so she could own the house that I was was living in.



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    #334
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141432#Comment_122141432

    lol contributing to the entire mortgage + some for sure. Property moved from being a long term investment to a business about 7/8 years ago. Instead of looking at the money made upon sale they started looking at the money made at the end of the month. I don’t hate landlords but I do hate that BS that you have highlighted.



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    #335
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,828 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141432#Comment_122141432

    They never include the appreciating asset in the calcs. It is either incredibly conniving or gross stupidity. Never entirely sure which.



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    #336
    Gary_dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Gary_dunne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141457#Comment_122141457

    100%, the house was bought according to the property register for 378k and houses on the road now are selling for 650k + depending on their condition.

    Some can't seem to understand that they have made an investment and like all investments they shouldn't be seen as guaranteed returns.



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    #337
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,232 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141424#Comment_122141424

    That is what institutional investors are currently doing, when they build their own developments.

    But you have missed the point, the poster said rental properties/developments should not be sold to the highest bidder, and my question was/is, what developer would build a development if they were not free to sell to the highest bidder?



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    #338
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,232 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141417#Comment_122141417

    What about all the people who own 2nd properties who are not LLs/developers?



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    #339
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,232 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141408#Comment_122141408

    I really hope you aren’t putting all your faith in others to help you buy a home.



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    #340
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,828 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141492#Comment_122141492

    Well, run it themselves I guess is the answer. Which is the point of Build-to-Let

    If it goes on the market it will obviously go to the highest bidder.



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    #341
    Gary_dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Gary_dunne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141519#Comment_122141519

    What has a politician not getting a vote off LL's have to do with my comment? I'm stating that they'd get plenty more votes from the people who don't own homes or only own one residence which is a much larger porportion of the pop than the private LL's.

    Even though it was not relevant at all to my point I'll still respond to it. I'm putting my faith in myself and my partners hard fought for savings to help us buy our home.



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    #342
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭purifol0


    As a child of a landlord I can tell you a house in the greater Dublin area will rent for 40k, after tax that's about 32k after tax.

    People here have noted it's an appreciating asset, but it's very much a deteriorating property. Tenants even the best ones don't take care of it, and the worst ones can and will destroy it. But I suppose that hasn't mattered in a out 5 years since the demand now outstips supply to the point that people are desperate for anything with a roof.

    The "market rate" is a result of govt policy and legally I can't discriminate between letting it to nice working people versus a "single" mother on HAP Even though it's a four bedroom house.

    The State is happy to tax, but is zero help if they trash the place.

    Oh and I hear now that our taxes are being used to build housing in Ukraine...



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    #343
    Viscount Aggro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    HAP should be scrapped. Why should people get their rent paid or subsidised by taxpayers money.

    All it does is, increase the market rate for rent in an area.



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    #344
    Gary_dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Gary_dunne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141640#Comment_122141640

    You made some points there that could be discussed and debated but then ruined it all by your last anti-immigration line.



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    #345
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Total nonsense? Also anti immigration???

    I work in IT with a whole bunch of immigrants and I know how hard they have it trying to carve out a life far away from home.

    But the housing crisis is caused by govt interference in the market, and also by operating a quasi unofficial open borders policy that they are only now acknowledging as it's election time.

    Many of the people here are here because of our world welfare policy, and they are being housed at our expense.

    Irish taxes being put into building Ukraine is an absolute scam since the land has been sold to Blackrock and the Ukrainian owners got frogmarched to their deaths in the most celebrated human rights atrocity in my lifetime - conscription.



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    #346
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,193 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122140974#Comment_122140974

    Does your cousin also like to light up his thousand-dollar cuban cigars with 50 Euro notes every evening after coming in from his expensive dinner?



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    #347
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,193 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141662#Comment_122141662

    100%. All HAP is is a subsidy to those who already have substantial wealth in property. It's madness.



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    #348
    Gary_dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Gary_dunne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141711#Comment_122141711

    Some of the people I know are immigrants is not exactly the best line to use to defend your stance.

    This thread is not about immigrants or Ireland's border policy so I'm not going to get into any of that.



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    #349
    SuperBowserWorld
    Registered Users Posts: 6,717 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Re HAP

    Its robbing Peter to give the money to Mary to give the money to Paul.

    But it makes Mary and Paul happy.

    So, the government get a vote from Mary and Paul and maybe even Peter who's too burned out and exhausted to think.



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    #350
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,828 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141640#Comment_122141640

    People here have noted it's an appreciating asset, but it's very much a deteriorating property. Tenants even the best ones don't take care of it,

    Boo hoo, it's called wear and tear. Also 40k is not far off the median wage, so I'm not sure if you're trying to garner sympathy off that figure…

    The asset doesn't even need to appreciate (although it almost invariably does), considering the tenant is paying off the principal. Private landlords are essentially just leveraging being cash rich enough for deposits to build asset portfolios. In no universe are they "not making much money".

    Also absolutely nobody is going to stop you choosing who you rent to.

    Of course, all of this is ultimately irrelevant, because the reason people are stuck at home is cause we don't build enough. There is no other primary reason.



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    #351
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,159 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122132860#Comment_122132860

    A house is an asset.

    Unless people want the PBP solution of public housing where everybody would be tenants, houses will remain as assets.

    A house provides housing services (shelter and warmth), and is an asset.



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    #352
    Gary_dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Gary_dunne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141752#Comment_122141752

    Most LL's wouldn't live in their own rented accommodation, as I said earlier nearly impossible to get them to do any maintenance required, fill it with cheap crappy mostly second hand furniture that inevitably breaks and then they complain that their tenants have damaged their furniture.

    The example I gave earlier there was 4 men between 28-38, all of us were professionals, we treated the house as it was our own home because it was our home. None of us wanted to live in a dump, the house was always as clean as a house with 4 men can be, we did the garden every Summer at our own expense, power washed, weed killer, bark some plants, didn't ask for a cent from the LL or even a reduction in rent for any of it. We bought some of our own furniture to make the living room cozier and the kitchen more functional all at our own expense.

    By the time I had left, the house it was in better shape than when I had moved in. Most reasonable tenants don't trash the place as it's their home.



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    #353
    downtheroad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141640#Comment_122141640

    The repairs and maintenance costs can all be deducted from the rental income to reduce any tax owing.

    Next.



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    #354
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,828 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Build-to-lets are definitely a thing in London. I don't see what the issue is. They've been purposefully built to create additional rental accommodation, not to be sold off piecemeal to landlords.

    Well, the issue is what it always is I suppose: NIMBYs and craven politicians kicking the can.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #355
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭purifol0


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141752#Comment_122141752

    Aha, your a simpleton. Nowhere in my post did I ask for sympathy, a previous post mentioned that landlords only ever gave the poor mouth, I thought I'd add some personal perspective.

    And no it's not just wear and tear, bad tenants can absolutely destroy a property. Things like new fridges or broken boiler can be written off your tax bill. Wrecked floors and the smell of smoke or pet extrement can not. Bad tenants can make life hell for the neighbors too and the law does nothing to help you evict them.

    But hey you just wanted to have a pop at me, the evil accidental landlord, so go nuts.



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    #356
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141846#Comment_122141846

    why for you sell up @purifol0 , property prices are as close as they ever will be to the Celtic tigers peeks I hope!



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    #357
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,193 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141846#Comment_122141846

    Bad anything can destroy anything. A bad employee can destroy a company. A bad client can destroy an otherwise profitable business etc. It's up to any commercial enterprise to manage risks as best they can



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    #358
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭purifol0


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141876#Comment_122141876

    Can't manage risk as its against the law. Go ask any hotelier how they feel about traveller weddings.



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    #359
    purifol0
    Registered Users Posts: 817 ✭✭✭purifol0


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141872#Comment_122141872

    Not mine to sell. Parents own it, I just manage it (as they are getting on). Even then it would be split between siblings.

    Folks when I said that its appreciating in € but detiorating in reality, this is not a complaint its a reality check for you all to realize that if you buy this on a 30+ year mortgage, its still a house that was built 40 years ago.

    But due to ridiculous demand, the built quality and space is, more bang for your buck than a brand new build for sale literally across the road.



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    #360
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,193 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141898#Comment_122141898

    The issue is that you can't manage the risks as you either do not know how to, or don't have the capacity (I mean financial) to do so.

    One should never put their eggs into the same basket. Diversification is one of the easiest and most effective way of managing risk.

    If 1-in-10 tenants will wreck a place, then if you have 100 apartments to let out, you are going to get 8/9/10/11/12 etc. bad tenants. The risk will be built into your margin. The problem is that if you have only one apartment, then 9 times out of 10 you'll be on the pigs back, but one time out of ten will ruin you. It isn't the market that needs to change to suit you (although things can always be improved, but that's a different topic) the issue is that you probably shouldn't be in that market in the first place.

    (Diversification by having multiple properties/tenants only diversifies that actual "bad tenant" risk, not the exposure to the overall housing market.)



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    #361
    Gary_dunne
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Gary_dunne


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141919#Comment_122141919

    Folks when I said that its appreciating in € but detiorating in reality, this is not a complaint its a reality check for you all to realize that if you buy this on a 30+ year mortgage, its still a house that was built 40 years ago.

    This is all houses not just one's owned by LL's. If I buy a car it depreciates and deteriorates over the years. This can be mitigated and slowed down by solid maintenance of it over the years.

    This is the difference LL's generally want the asset to appreciate, have the principal sum paid entirely by the tenants yet they invest as little as possible to look after the asset.



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