2 out of 3 young adults living at home

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134233#Comment_122134233

But you understand that if it has value, and you own it, it is an asset?

I don't care. That's not why we bought it. We bought it because we wanted a "home", not an "asset" to be flipped.

That kind of wooly "thinking" has only really been around for about 25 to 30 years in Ireland. This idea that "homes" are "properties". Something that's a financial tool rather than a practical shelter. A place to live in, long term, where families can be raised and communities formed.

The commodification of homes has seen us spiral downwards into the quagmire that exists today and it ain't pretty and the future has many, many problems on the back of that. That kind of attitude needs changing if we are to ever get out of the ditch we're in at present. People need to get back to the idea that they're buying a home to lay down roots of some kind. Not some illusionary "marketable" product in a market that they'll never truly be a part of.

Put more simply, if the situation arose where you had to raise money, you could sell your home. Ergo, it is an asset you can sell.

That situation should be something that's by the by and not the main reason for buying a house, which has become front and centre for too many people who think they're going to be some sort of wheeler dealer on a market they have little real understanding of.

This is why we've ended up with so many accidental LL's in this country.

emo72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134233#Comment_122134233

It's not really an asset because you can't sell it and live on the street. Yeah it's an asset you can't ever sell, because you need shelter. Generally it's only liquidated when you die and your kids sell it.

Podge_irl

Homes have always been assets and commodities. There was a brief enough period where at least their supply was plentiful. However, the biggest issue today is coming from those who bought their homes 25 to 30 years ago or more who are obsessed that allowing anyone else to own homes near them will degrade their property's value.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134297#Comment_122134297

Yes, a home is a home. The value at any given time is a bit immaterial to most as if you sell, you must buy somewhere else.

The issue with assets arises with multiple properties, whether these holiday houses, holiday lets, rentals etc

emo72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134324#Comment_122134324

All true.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134324#Comment_122134324

That's only true if you're buying an identical house next door.

Houses in cities appreciate more than rural houses. Houses appreciate more than apartments.

Houses with 4 bedrooms, or large gardens are more desirable.

Someone trading up from an apartment to a semi-D will have suffered with inflation, someone trading down from a detached house in a prime location to a rural cottage will have made a small fortune

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134297#Comment_122134297

But it is an asset you can sell to buy another home, or, leave to your kids.

It would seem people consider a house and asset when it suits them, and not, when it doesn’t. But that does not change the fact that if the need arose, you could sell your home and convert its value (provided it has some) into cash. It is therefore, an asset.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134273#Comment_122134273

Whether you care or not, or whether you call it a home or by any other name, it is an asset that if the need arose, you could sell it. It is also an asset which your bank has a hold on if you have a mortgage.

Tony, you are just virtue signalling, deep down, you know what your property is, a home, and an asset.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134348#Comment_122134348

Perhaps you can try to read in an effort to understand what's being said to you, instead of reading just to reply with nonsense.

"virtue signalling" 🙄

FFS.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134392#Comment_122134392

Yes virtue signalling, it’s as if you don’t want to admit you have an asset that you also live in.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134416#Comment_122134416

You didn't understand a single thing that was said to you, did you.

Pointless even bothering with you.

Kerry2021

In the part of the world where I live you can buy a fine 3 bed semi d in the middle of the town for €210,000 still

Like for a couple that’s only €10,500 of a deposit each

I just looked up such a mortgage and a couple could get a mortgage with a 3.45% APR, it would only cost them €770/month or €375/month each

That is very do able

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134502#Comment_122134502

do you live on the blaskets?

emo72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134348#Comment_122134348

Gosh mate. I know what your saying. But my point is valid. It realistically is an asset that I can never cash in as long as I need somewhere to live. Which is pretty much all of the time I plan to live on this planet. But yeah, my kids will get the benefit of it. But not in my lifetime.

Kerry2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134600#Comment_122134600

No. In a big town on the mainland. There is life outside the major cities in Ireland haha!

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122133936#Comment_122133936

Well thats where we are headed. The buy to let landlords are becoming an endangered species and the big guys are taking over going forward. So far neither has been a good thing, but you never know. Once the big guys have taken over completely things might get better. I dont think they will though.

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134502#Comment_122134502

Tony could sell his €750k home thats not an asset. Buy a new home in your part pf the world and have over half a million euro in his back pocket for his trouble. :)

Kerry2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135621#Comment_122135621

better yet he could sell his own for €750K, buy 4 houses down here, live in 1, rent the other 3 out for €4,000/month (€1,350/month each) and work no more

SharkMX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135698#Comment_122135698

Now you are talking :)

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134502#Comment_122134502

Hundreds of 2 bed apartments in Dublin for not that much more. A lot of people just dont want to live in gaffs smaller than their folks house or arent willing to engage in adult behaviour like saving or dealing with banks.

I know people still living at home with their folks who go out a few times a week and go on 3 holidays a year.

EG https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/apartment-apartment-23-aengus-hall-belgard-square-tallaght-dublin-24/5684826

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135723#Comment_122135723

But I deserve 3 holidays, it’s all about work life balance, don’t you know?

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134145#Comment_122134145

Home ownership and house occupation are not the same thing.

Gary_dunne

I've always felt that the Irish view on property is a very outdated model. I'm Irish myself but have lived abroad and the continent's view on housing is not only more realistic it's far more sustainable. We're decades behind in our major cities being fully equipped for large scale high rise apartment projects eg, lack of metro system, not enough public spaces etc.

My belief has always been that apartments should be built not for BTL purposes (rent often means people can't save for deposits) but for younger people to purchase when they are in their 20's and don't require a 3 bed semi with gardens at this time in their lives. As they get older and begin to start a family if they desire they can trade upwards for the 3 bed semi suburban life and they sell their apartment to the next couple in their 20's looking for their start on the property ladder.

Maybe it's a too simplistic or sensible idea for the Irish property market.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135955#Comment_122135955

That should be the ideal model.

Buy a cheaper property close to the city and amenities when you're just starting out.

Sell up and buy in the burbs when you're starting a family.

However, we don't build apartments at scale in this country. Someone earlier posted the financial model for constructing apartments and it was more expensive than semi-ds, plus the perception of apartments has been poisoned by the sh*te they threw up in the boom.

I would also add the house purchasing process needs to be overhauled. It shouldn't take more than a week to complete the vast majority of sales in this day and age. It's a harrowing experience for most people, no wonder the elderly don't want the hassle of downsizing.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134335#Comment_122134335

Someone trading up from an apartment to a semi-D will have suffered with inflation, someone trading down from a detached house in a prime location to a rural cottage will have made a small fortune

You are neglecting the value of existing equity when trading up.

A simplistic example to illustrate. You buy an apartment priced at 400k with an interest-only mortgage of 300k. Your aim is for a house worth 600k.

Scenario A. In one year the housing market has halved in price. The house you really want is available for 300k. But you are in 100k negative equity on your existing apartment. You are going to be looking at an LTV of 133% for your trade-up. In other words - not gonna happen.

Scenario B. In one year the housing market has doubled in price. The house you really want is available for 1.2m. But you now have 500k equity in your old apartment. You would be looking at an LTV of 58% for your trade up.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122134502#Comment_122134502

And where would they work?

I'm assuming you're in some remote part of Kerry? People need to be able to live near where they work. Is there a massive surplus of jobs there?

Grayson

Living in Germany at the moment. I live in a nice city where rents are considered high and it's dirt cheap compared to Ireland.

My neighborhood is about 15 minute walk from the city centre. It's a nice little neighborhood. Loads of shops, supermarkets, cafes restaurants and bakeries on the main st. If I continue walking for 10-15 minutes I end up in another neighborhood that's similar. And it's the same in whatever direction I go. Every building is on average 6-7 stories. This means greater population density. And it means that the neighborhoods can be close together.

It also means public transport is more effective. The trams and ubahn don't have to stretch out 20km.

In Dublin we went for sprawl pretty close to the city centre. So there's a bigger gap between neighborhoods. And it gets worse further out.

Now people are expected to move 20 miles out and it's still expensive.

I used to work for a US multinational. I was at the end of the BART line in San Francisco. I their equivalent of celbridge. Prices there was so high I asked how the people who worked as baristas in the local coffee shop could afford to live there. And I was told they lived hours away and commuted every day.

That's what we're turning into.

Kerry2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136173#Comment_122136173

I live in the 3rd biggest town in the county. Not at all remote. My own SO works in Limerick city which is easily commutable. There’s a kerry group factory in the town I live in also, I know loads of people working there. One of them was telling a family member of mine the other day that he did some overtime a couple weeks ago, he grossed over €1,800 for that weeks work. No shortage of jobs in the town, good ones too. Tralee is 20 minutes away, full of jobs as well, the Dairymaster world HQ is 25 minutes away

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136110#Comment_122136110

Take your example, a couple on 100k with a 300k mortgage @3.5% to buy an apartment.

x3 their earnings with a monthly of X

Now they decide to trade up.

In scenario B with a LTV of 58% they need 700k mortgage

x7 their earnings, with monthly repayment of 3.143, which is 37% of their gross on mortgage repayments. Not gonna happen.

Actually scenario A is probably better provided they don't lose their jobs in such a huge property crash.

They're only 400k from buying the bigger house, instead of 700k, even though they're in the hole by 100k.

Am I right with this?

tom1ie

so the real reason that 2 out of 3 young adults live at home is because rental properties and even shared rooms are astronomical in price.

So why are they so expensive? Lack of supply obviously.

So why have we a lack of supply? Because landlords have decided to sell up due to onerous conditions and homeowners are wary about renting a room and thus charge a premium, because of lack of supply.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122135955#Comment_122135955

I disagree, the process of buying and selling property in Ireland is far too cumbersome, takes far to long and costs too much, My financial advice to those 20 year olds would be go stright for the house as it will save them around €7K. I believe it's deliberatly bad here because the government likes to subsidise small businesses by ensuring systems are messy and costly

In Australia such advice would work as buying and selling properties is easier, quicker and cheaper. I never once needed to pay a solicitor thousands when buying and selling properties, just got a conveyancing agent for a sixth the cost. I've known people do it all themselves.