What's with the aggression, can't answer about battery reliability or range after 8 years.
Perhaps in time to come it will be cheaper to replace car battery but at the moment its not.
I would not rule out an EV but I'd have to go new or no more than 2 year old. I'll hold off for another few years defo.
With 78k km on my 2016 Octy and a new timing belt fitted as part of the deal, I should have no worries for a few years at least hopefully.
You save a minimum €2,400 in fuel costs / year, so €30,000 over 12.5 years - was this the cost of your ID3?
Why not compare the purchase cost of your ID3 + fuel over the life - residual value with the purchase cost of the ICE + fuel - residual value. Is it reasonable to assume insurance / repair costs are or will be the same when minor tips lead to EVs being written off? What will the range of the ID3 be in 3, 5, 10 years - i.e. will it remain practicable for you?
what has you thinking batteries are unreliable? Is replacing an engine a diy job for you ? There is a lot less to go wrong in an ev you realise ?
We're all different, ones man food and all that.
Not worried about replacing engine as they are fairly reliable and not unrealisticly expensive. Plenty available at breakers yard.
Battery replacement I believe is very expensive.
i can understand someone preferring a manual sports car, I don’t get a preference for manual in a standard diesel mile muncher personally.
do you worry about replacing the engine in your Skoda ?
Treating the EVs range as its daily limit is fairly common I think especially with ICE drivers.
You often find a mindset of "the journey can't be done AT ALL" if you've to charge the car for 30 mins in order to complete the trip.
Hopefully as EVs continue to evolve both the cars and chargers then that will change.
Well I bought it this year and if I was to buy an ID3 in a few years and it was 7 years old I'd be nervous of the possibility of replacing a battery out of warranty and the cost.
I personally prefer a manual than an auto and is very roomy and great boot versatility. It's plenty refined for me tnks.
Whose battery packed up ? Also driving an ev versus an unrefined low powered 4 pot diesel is night and day .
I've a 2016 Octavia 110bhp TDI, long term ave is 56mpg. That's mostly short journeys (work 20km round trip.) and it's Winter. In Summer it's 60+. Fantastic car and no worries about the battery packing up or range anxiety.
Building bigger and heavier ev's to give them more range is really a bit silly and pricing them out of the market for a lot of people. If you need range get a diesel, but if all your doing is driving from home to work get a small ev, again like the previous diesel hysteria it should be a case of horses for courses rather than getting cheap tax.
I bought a Kia nitro phev back in 19.
I was spending about 350eur a month on petrol. With a phev I could charge for free in work.
PCP worked out at 320eur a month (plus 15k balloon payment).
For me it literally was a free upgrade. Savings in fuel more than paid for the PCP. The balloon payment was what I was paying in petrol over the same period. So I was not out of pocket and had a newer, and better spec car.
New EV cars today have been priced obscenely. Skeptic in me would say it's priced off petrol/diesel prices so that car costs are roughly even after 3 years (assuming you drive circa 30k a year).
ID 4 on release could be gotten for about 38k (if you could have found one). Today you are looking at about 55k for one (I do think it's a bigger battery spec though today).
We actually used the Ioniq as our primary car because it was much nicer and way cheaper to drive than the Toyota. Range was about 220 km, but dropped to about 150-170 km at motorway speeds. Still I drove it all over Ireland, England and Wales, including to Sheffield from the ferry at Pembroke one day - just two 25-minute stops at motorway services, and we would regularly take it from Waterford to Dublin and back (yes we'd have to charge but that was fine). We also took it on holiday to France one year. Once again, no problem with a bit of planning. I note your choice of words "an EV that can't go more than 150km at motorway speed" and I'm tempted to be a smart-ass and answer "you do know you can charge it again afterwards, right?". And I think that shows something in people's mindset - they think the range of an EV is their effective travel limit for the day, because they assume that chargers don't exist, or will always be broken/occupied/ICEd etc. However if you download the "ecar connect" app and look at just the ESB the chargers across the country, you will see many more green (available) than blue (in use) or red (unavailable) at pretty much any time you look. Sure it's not as p155-easy as going and getting petrol, but it's nowhere near as difficult as people think it will be. And the wait is nothing. By the time you go to the toilet and grab a coffee, it's almost done - then you have 5 minutes to scroll through Facebook or Tinder or Grindr or whatever, before getting going again.
As for the Ioniq figure of €5,844, I should have pointed out that that was a yearly figure (as are all the other figures). Of course it was only that for 5 years. It's paid off now 😁
That was very much our thinking when we went from a 2007 Grande Punto to a 2017 Ioniq. We were spending around €200 a month on fuel which became €20 a month on electricity thanks to the low night rates between '17 and '21. We'd started to look at a replacement car and had budgeted around €350 for loan payments. Switching to the Ioniq we were able to afford €550 a month payment thanks to the fuel savings.
We were switching the car because we'd had two years in a row with very high maintenance bills, we had a suspension coil break, the alternator crack. It always seemed like we'd have another six months then something bad enough to be fixable but still costly would go wrong with it.
I've always thought there's two ways to look at how you run a car, you can treat it like a financial asset and worry about depreciation costs, counting the interest on the finance as a cost or you can just treat your loan payment like a monthly cost. For the Ioniq we cared more about the monthly cost of running it than we did any future depreciation. Purely on running costs we were looking at the Ioniq at €360 (tax and electricity) per year vs the Punto's €2,800 (tax and petrol). The €2,400 a year difference went a long way towards paying the loan costs. The complete removal of unplanned maintenance on the Punto was the real goal, who knows we may have been lucky and not had to pay so much to keep it going. Our Ioniq had a couple of issues but they were all covered by Hyundai's 5 year warranty.
The Ioniq was traded in by my ex-wife after 5 years, I think she got around €18k for it, a €8k loss on depreciation vs €12k saved on running costs. The interest on the finance probably means it was break even between the two. Our Ioniq was bought at a very unique time where there was a decent value EV for sale and cheap night rates were still very common. As the number of EVs available new has increased manufacturers have sought to capture some of the savings in running costs by increasing the cost of new vehicles.
The math is going to be very different comparing an ID.3 sold today to an Ioniq or Leaf sold in 2017/18.
Our G30 520d averages around 30mpg for city runs. It only opens up on long motorway runs. The F10 520d is under 30 mpg for similar city runs.
Regularly achieving 6L/100km on long journeys in many modern diesel cars is what I would expect, as that is what the engine is designed for....long journeys, where the the operating temp is achieved and maintained for most of the journey. It's the shorter journeys that kill the efficiency. The average for that car is 7L/100km. Are you commuting 100km+ per day? I know plenty of my colleagues are doing that mileage daily and then some.
@6L/100km with Diesel costing €1.65/L, that's €9.90/100km. Rounding to a tenner, it's €50 per week (not bad at all), or €2,500 per year.
The thing is, anecdotally speaking...the colleagues doing around 100km return commute per day are telling me they spend a lot more than €50 per week on fuel. The oldest diesel is a 2016 Octavia which are supposed to be achieving the same as your insignia.
I think the warranty is 8 years or 160K Kms and it can’t be extended to my knowledge.
For those driving 1996 VW red i’s worried about being forced into an EV.
250k - 300k
Something can go wrong with all cars EV or not, I removed that from the calcs
The battery warranty on the ID is 7 years or 160k, will consider extending it closer to that time.
No it's alarmingly average, Auris d4d
As long as nothing goes wrong with it
You gonna try and get an extended warranty or risk it?
What mileage will be on it after 10 years?
One thing to consider with older cars is downtime, breakdowns and reliability.
On older vehicles I can find I've to drop it to the garage the night before, then get somebody to follow me over to get me home. Then the next day you've to arrange a lift or make some arrangement.
Then there's times they need a part, so it's back for a second visit.
The NCT can be the same, multiple trips and visits flaffing about with it.
Newer cars generally avoid most of this.
I'd have no problem buying a new car if the govt. dumped vrt and got rid of the massive tax bill that comes bundled with buying a new car and of course solving the depreciation problem :)
Nothing wrong with that attitude either. But you’re in a car motoring forum so most would be “into” cars in the same way you’re into “living” 😁
I've been driving a few years now and in that time I've never been tempted to buy a new car, full stop. Nevermind, an ev. Cars are a ridiculous waste of money. I'll spend those monies on living, thanks.
Is it a skoda vrs?
You can cherry pick numbers and examples to back up your own argument/agenda.
My ID3 has probably depreciated about 35% or less over our 2.5 years of ownership.
In that period I've saved absolutely minimum 6k in fuel, I'm going on today's prices and comparing to the most fuel efficient combustibles out there.
I'll keep my car for 10 years, at that stage I'll have roughly cancelled out the price of the car in fuel savings so the net cost ignoring maintenance and tyres will be zero.
Equivalent ice will be 60k (car price plus fuel).
Does it still not make sense?
Good example and it does work for you, you made the correct decision on those numbers as your using the cars fully capabilities everyday to the max with that over 100km commute, but its a second car in your house, you have another car for the long journeys?
In a 1 car household, an EV that can't go more than 150km at motorway speed probably wouldn't work lets be honest.
I don't get your figures though did the Ioniq 2018 only cost €5,844 to buy?
Just to throw in my own experience here, to answer the question in the title...
Bought classic Hyundai Ioniq in 2018, going from a 2005 2.2l diesel Honda Accord and commuting over 100 km per day.
Here are the actual figures:
Hyundai Ioniq:
Loan: €5,844
Electricity: €400
Tax: €120
Servicing: €150
TOTAL: €6,514
Honda Accord:
Loan: €0
Diesel: €2,500
Tax: €994
Servicing: €600
NCT: €50
TOTAL: €4,144
So you might wonder if I was mad taking on an extra €2,500 in yearly spending. However take into account that I had a clutch problem with the Accord, and I was looking at about €2k to replace, so that already swung it for me. Repair costs had begun to creep up too, and were at least €1,000 a year in the last two or three years.
I was looking at throwing good money after bad, and with a new car under warranty, repair costs weren't going to be anything to worry about, so I knew how much I was paying. Plus, it was just a newer car with way more safety tech. It was also much nicer to drive, even though the interior of the Accord was more premium.
The Ioniq turned out to be the right decision. It's been utterly reliable, apart from the charge port actuator and two door handles having to be replaced under warranty (I got a newer Ioniq as a courtesy car while my own was getting repaired). We still have it, because when I bought my Model 3, my wife wanted to take the Ioniq off me instead of holding onto her own Toyota. It's still going strong (of course it is - it's a six-year-old car!) but what's better again is that it's paid for and costs SFA to run.
I haven't mentioned insurance or tyres because the costs of those didn't change. I'm very sceptical of articles in the press saying that people are paying double for tyres or insurance with an EV, because it hasn't been my experience. Maybe that's because we've gone from one normal-sized saloon/hatchback to another each time. Maybe if you're going from a Corolla to a massive SUV then tyres and insurance are going to go up, but that's because you bought an SUV, not because you bought an EV.
(Neither car has gone on fire either)
Similar position, have the same diesel car for the last 12 years, doesn't own me a thing and I service/fix most small issues with it myself and know a good mechanic for the big jobs.
I will be buying an EV eventually, not for financial reasons or environment, just because I really like how they drive, so smooth and effortless, but what has stopped me is the price, warranty and tech.
I fully believe this 60kWh standard for almost €40,000 like the VW ID3 and its 8 year/160k km battery warranty and real world 220km motorway range @ 120km/h in Irish winter is gonna be very dated in a few years, they will look like an older Nissan Leaf does now and like the old Nissan Leaf today's EV's will depreciate like crazy. I do think too that any EV not using fireproof battery chemistry like the Chinese blade battery will be unwanted eventually, wouldn't be surprised to see incentives to get them off the road to avoid the risk of a fire with them, even if its not a massive risk, but a risk nonetheless
Anyway with China and its battery/car companies, I am expecting 80+kWh, with 15 year/500k km battery warranties, 300km+ real world motorway range to be available for €25,000 or so by the end of the decade in an ID3 size car. Basically they will be making long term EV's, the ones now are a short term solution rushed to the market to avoid EU fines and are in effect just compliance cars. The non compliance cars will be insanely good
I'll wait for them
Sorry I meant I wouldn’t save a few Bob moving to the EV id be better off sticking with ICE- obviously dependent on it not shiting itself anytime soon!
