Deposit return scheme (recycling)

Archeron

Made a point of going back to the store that wouldn't take the receipt yesterday (9km round trip in a diesel, take that environment) and try again.

Yesterday, i was told the system was totally down, software wouldn't load.

Today, the software is up but giving an error message saying barcode not recognised. This receipt came from an rvm 20 feet from the till (which today is no longer working)

Staff member agreed its an absolute shambles and constantly either the machine or the software, or both, are not working. Handed back the receipt again and told, try again next time.

How many attempts will the average person make befire flinging the receipt in the bin? (the black bin, remember the receipt you cant cash in is not recyclable either). This level of absolute incompetence in the launch of this is unacceptable and i suspect deliberate. Plain simple theft of our money with numerous knock on consequences.

Call it a tax, cut out the environmental damage and time wasting aspect of it and be done with it.

Once again later this morning, a large truck will visit my house to collect an almost empty recycling bin, while I'm going all over the place with recycling materials to machines and tills that dont work.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948346#Comment_121948346

Next time you should insist on a manager refunding you there and then, the legislation is very clear that you must be refunded immediately.

Archeron

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948401#Comment_121948401

Thanks Chizler, i wasnt aware of that

whisky_galore

Tried it out successfully in an Aldi, my mind is unchanged about it being an exercise in greenwashing. I still see discarded cans and bottles by the roadside, the people who aren't bothered still won't be bothered.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948422#Comment_121948422

Re-turn need to send out a notification to retailers to stop them using this "computer says no" excuse.

If the RVM takes the can the cashier must pay out.

This is especially important for non regular customers, tourists etc.

They can't be sent away with a useless piece of paper.

jj880

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/almost-300000-people-across-15-counties-to-be-notified-of-high-levels-of-cancer-linked-toxins-in-their-drinking-water/a134234027.html

Uisce Éireann is to send explanatory booklets to affected households served by 25 water supplies in 15 counties.

It will inform customers that their water supply has elevated levels of trihalomethanes (THMs) which some studies suggest are linked to various cancers and reproductive problems.

THMs are chemical compounds created when chlorine used to disinfect supplies at treatment plants reacts with vegetation and bacteria in the water.

The HSE acknowledges the concerns about the links to disease but says the risks of drinking inadequately disinfected water are higher.

Free chlorine for all.

Think I'll be keeping my RO filter for drinking / cooking for the rest of my days. Definitely more cost effective than bottled water with the recent price hikes + deposits.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948946#Comment_121948946

And to think i've had to defend people choosing to buy water. Uisce Eireann are "to send out explanatory booklets". So people who dont read the Indo, wont know about this risk to their health until the booklet arrives, assuming they read it and don't assume its spam and bin the booklet.

No reminder on every news bulletin. No website with an Eircode checker where you can check if you are affected. As I type this I don't even know if Im affected. Irish Waters website is laughable:

Further information

For more about THMs and your drinking water, visit the Environmental Protection Agency. For more about THMs and your health, visit the Health Service Executive.

And the award for Passing the Buck this year goes to...

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949013#Comment_121949013

There is also the question of the vast amount of unclaimed deposits and future deposits. Where should they be concentrated? I think I read they will be set aside for "other recycling initiatives". Ok but how about a subsidy to help people get clean drinking water without boil notices or being forced to pay now inflated bottled water prices with the deposit on top.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949085#Comment_121949085

There has been mention earlier in the thread about people using water refill stations at the airport(so they dont have to buy bottles). I've been bringing a refillable water bottle with me when out and about for years, but still buy bottled water in some places because you don't always trust the water supply.

Ken Tucky

Is the water OK from those refill stations?

We brought our bottles to fill up when going to the Canaries last year and the water was undrinkable.

We poured it out and refilled from the bottled water. Might have been just an isolated incident..but i havent filled from them again.

Anyhow, that is totally off topic.

LambshankRedemption

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949165#Comment_121949165

Ive been to places where the water was safe to drink but was so highly chlorinated, was undrinkable from a taste-aspect. Ive been to other places where the water tasted ok, but by drinking it you were playing russian runs-roulette.

If a refill station is in an area that is on a boil notice, or is in an area with THM, it should clearly state where the water is coming from.

pauly58

Our first time using the machines on Wednesday, took our bottles into Lidl, yes, you've guessed it, machine out of order. Finished shopping, bringing bottles along with us, next up, over to Dunnes. Their machine worked okay, a lot of fuss, when we would have taken them into the recycling centre anyway.

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949085#Comment_121949085

The "other recycling initiatives" came up this week in reporting. I wasn't sure if this was within the remit of re-turn, I certainly hope that re-turn would have no discretion to invest in anything outside of DRS. I expect its not in their actual remit, but is 'at the discretion of the Minister'. What is not in dispute is that any additional cash has ultimately to be dispersed.

I would like to know more about this. Who ultimately decides how these funds get spent? What accountability is there?

Someone mentioned previously that re-turn may be allowed to tinker with something like the producer levy to balance the cash out, fine if the amounts are small, but to me that is proxy distribution of potentially large amounts of cash to producers.

Its more critical if the return rate is less than forecast, or if to counter a low return rate a higher deposit is selected in the future. These are not insignificant sums of money - each 10% variance to plan results in €40m more cash to re-turn. That could be a very nice slush fund for whoever gets to control it.

BobMc

I think some form of bulk return to a recycling centre should be available, saw an irish lady living in canada with a video on tiktok and she stored and bulk brought about 8 large bags to a recylcing centre got the bone of170dollars back , machines great for maybe odd one or two bottles but we need a bulk return option and with damage accepted aswell , IMO without this is doomed to fail long term

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949241#Comment_121949241

Happens to me many a time at lidl, did the staff not get it working for you?

feelings

Have yet to use a machine locally and not have an issue. Dunnes, Londis, Lidl and Tescos. Dunnes still not taking Lidl items too.

Firmly believe that this scheme is to generate additional revenue and nothing at all to do with recycling levels.

Returns own figures...5 million sold a day, that is over 200 million since launching. 8 million returned up to recently, so a whopping 4%??

Early days, RVM issues, old stock etc - will they even get to 10% by the end of the year?

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949379#Comment_121949379

According to CEO, they are "up to 1m returns a day" - that is a use of strategically ambivalent language and does not mean '1m on average' or that 1m is has been return on even one day as yet.

The CEO did also say 15.8m had been returned as of this week (he said this Weds, so assume it is as of end Tuesday). Based on re-turn stats from 12 March, that would mean an average of 670k per day for the 15 days up to 27 March.

You are absolutely correct the 5m items sold per day. Some of these are still old stock, there is no data for that %. We also don't know how many of the 300m items sold since 1 Feb had deposit, but I have done some checking and would be very confident old stock is today less than 20% by volume, and receding quickly (its already illegal for wholesalers and producers to supply a store in Ireland with non DRS stock). So items sold with deposit I feel are over 4m per day

Hence, 670k out of say 4m or around 17% would seem to be the average running collection ratio. The ratio was certainly less than 10% from launch up to 12 March, and its 17% or little more maybe as of now. We might get a better picture at start of April.

Genghis

This must be made by a poster or reader of this thread 😁

https://twitter.com/TheRyanCarrick/status/1773076321259647335?t=E2popEcNPoc5-Vw25QNFzg&s=19

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949165#Comment_121949165

I've been using those refill stations at Dublin Airport for years and never had a problem with the water.

_Kaiser_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948946#Comment_121948946

Ahh good old "Irish Water" - that's right, I'm not fooled by their recent attempts to rebrand (presumably to try and distance themselves from their history) no more than I was when "Traffic Corps" rebranded to "Roads Policing" in the wake of the penalty points scandal.

No mention of who/where the lucky 300k are either in that article so I guess we just have to wait and see if we're winners when the booklet arrives.

yoyo

Something that is spoken about as a plus about this scheme is that homeless people will pick up discarded cans/bottles and return them for the fee. This happens in Germany, so it will obviously happen here. Just thinking about that point, say in Germany it is mostly homeless alcoholics that pick up the cans. They will only need to save up a handful to cash in for a can of high strength booze.

In Ireland it appears a can of cider (only 4.5% too) you seem to be in or around the €2.15 mark (sticking on the deposit ;)): (https://www.dunnesstoresgrocery.com/sm/delivery/rsid/253/product/devils-bit-mountain-irish-orchard-cider-500ml-id-100269309)

Do people honestly think homeless people will be able to collect upwards 16 cans just so they can afford a can of cider? They'd have better luck going into the shop and stealing for their fix.

Be interesting if there are any stats if this "benefit" is actually being realized. I happen to notice locally a fair number of cans and bottles being dumped on the street (I cannot say if it is more or less than before, but it is a noticeable number given this scheme should be apparently tackling this).

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949786#Comment_121949786

I saw it the whole time in San Fran a few years back, the homeless litterally go around with shopping trolleys full of empty cans, the deposit there is 10c

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121945443#Comment_121945443

Stick to the e1.00 bottled water or is that e1.15 minimum donation now.Went thru before the start of scheme

yoyo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121950055#Comment_121950055

Do they have excessively expensive alcohol like we do there though?

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121948438#Comment_121948438

It will take it's time. After the smoking ban there were still idiots smoking, after the plastic bag levy there were still people buying plastic bags cause they just took time to get used to it.

However, the unfortunate reality is that there'll always be people that dump or burn rubbish.

Hopefully, in time people will see the value in them instead of throwing them away or burning them but these types are mainly mouth breathers and tend to be really slow on the uptake.

LambshankRedemption

Hopefully, in time people will see the value in them instead of throwing them away or burning them but these types are mainly mouth breathers and tend to be really slow on the uptake.

The same mouth breathers who were happy just using their green bin?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949786#Comment_121949786

The German deposit is also 25c on all sizes of single use cans and bottles; although you see the 8c reusable glass bottles being picked up too.

I'm surprised ours came in as low as 15c and would not be surprised at it going to 25c if the returned volume is low

Varies a fair bit across Europe. Danish system goes from ~13c to ~40c depending on what it is, Dutch is 15c like here

Genghis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121950113#Comment_121950113

It's €2 now, and it's no longer bottled.

Dublin Airport changed to 'eco friendly' Tetra Pak the moment this scheme went live.

Good news: You don't need to worry about how to get a 25c deposit back.

Bad news: you now pay twice the price for the same amount of water.

Article below, I've seen these new packs myself in the airport.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-airport-responds-customer-claims-28583939

ozmo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121949013#Comment_121949013

People get up in arms about about what "the Government" are supposed to making us ingest (Chem trails etc) - and this THMs is actually a real thing and no-one is talking about it…. I dunno - where are the conspiracy theorists when you need them?

LambshankRedemption

Except the cheapest can of beer in Germany is 70 cent, so returning 3 cans will get you enough for 1 beer. Versus here, where you need to return about 10 cans to pay for a can of the cheapest.

I don't see the local winos taking up this past time.