Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028961#Comment_122028961

Well I'm not ignoring it, am I? Where there is an influx of foreigners in a country, this has pretty much routinely throughout history led to some form of resentment towards them until they've been there long enough and are eventually replaced as the object of resentment by a new group of foreigners. Some of the resentment is fair and reasonable, and a lot of the time it's just pure xenophobia or the scapegoating of migrants for homegrown issues or other issues for which migrants do not really deserve the proportion of blame levelled at them. Either way — in the modern era the resentment tends to lead to popularity of right-leaning parties. So are you happy now that I'm acknowledging the reason for why these swings happen?

But the point still stands that a swing in opinion is not necessarily an indicator that something is right or wrong, good or bad, inevitable or otherwise. That's why I think it's more than fair to say — if a swing to the Right is indicative of migration being more bad than good, or destroying a country etc, then does a swing to the Left mean the opposite? When Swedish politics veers away from the Right at some point, will you come on here and proclaim that this means the migration issue is gone and the migrant population of Sweden can be considered integrated? Somehow I doubt it.

Sunjava

An entertaining discussion which is quite relevant to Ireland today.

https://youtu.be/MEPtyb9OHP8?si=j8SEUG28dQsPbMoj

CollyFlower

Public order unit.... https://www.facebook.com/share/p/iHPA9FCE3XvynLZo/

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/iHPA9FCE3XvynLZo/

Sunjava

Worth noting that Enoch's careers was badly effected by these views despite strong public support.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030048#Comment_122030048

Not strong enough public support, that is why his career was affected .

Will0483

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023435#Comment_122023435

No first-world country on Earth has successfully integrated migrants from Islamic countries. Their loyalty is to their religion first and foremost. Ireland won't be the first place in history to do it and that's for sure as we haven't even managed to integrate our own "ethnic minority" yet. That would be travellers for those who can't keep up.

Under Swedish law, he was perfectly entitled to burn any book he chose. The crazy reaction was inevitable unfortunately and proves my point above.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030165#Comment_122030165

Nothing stopping you burning the Irish flag in Ireland either , but I dare you to try it in a public place !

No justification for race baiting and Islamophobic behaviour like that troglodyte .

Poon Tang

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029008#Comment_122029008

Miller is just playing to the gallery, Powell making very solid and robust arguments that of course stand the test of time. We still have guys like Miller today, who get the applause for downplaying and minimizing the negative consequences of these policies. They live in a type of fantasy land, not the real world.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029008#Comment_122029008

Yes, racists have always existed.

Sunny Disposition

People do not have the right to attack someone who burns the Quran.

The person who burned it may be a horrible character, but those who attack him are 100% responsible for their actions and must be punished. Arguing that they are justified is to endorse Islamic terrorism. It is disgusting. It is the logic of those who carried out the Charlie Hedbo shooting.

creeper1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030222#Comment_122030222

Not comparable.

It would be the equivalent of some Australian going into a part of Sydney with a high concentration of Irish and burning an Irish flag.

He'd probably not be that popular but I doubt anyone would physically attack him.

Goldengirl

So let me get this clear .

You both think that burning the book which is the fundamental tenet of an other person's religion in front of them and many others is an ok thing to do ?

Not ignorant in the least ?

Not showing extreme disrespect for them and their religion ?

Not inflammatory at all , no pun intended ?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030299#Comment_122030299

Absolutely .

But it is equally wrong to inflame people purposefully like that .

Both should feel the force of the law.

Sunny Disposition

Burning the Quran in Sweden is legal.

It is important that the western world doesn't indulge this madness of Muslims attacking and killing people who don't share their views. It just has to be resisted.

If people want to live in liberal democracies they have to know that people have the right to demean things they hold sacred.

The response of people who believe they are tolerant is often to be intolerant of other people's rights to behave within the law.

Vote4Squirrels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030545#Comment_122030545

Yeah awful isn't it - yet I wonder how many people slamming the Quran burning and shouting "Islamophobia!" would think that was okay.

Sweden specifically allowed it. Sickening.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-outrage-flares-after-sweden-okays-torah-torching-next-to-israeli-embassy/

To get back to the point of the thread and an earlier comment - given that around 75% of British Muslims deny anything happened on 7 October, I think it is safe to agree that true integration will always be impossible as the first devotion is to the faith. See also the teacher who is currently under guard in hiding due to showing a painting of Mohammed.

MegamanBoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030672#Comment_122030672

Have you anything to back up that claim?

MegamanBoo

Far right extremists in Ireland look like a far bigger risk to me than Muslims.

The vast, vast majority of Muslims living in first world countries do so peacefully and within the law.

Muslim extremists have committed terrible atrocities, but it's worth remembering that huge amounts of funding have gone towards funding and encouraging this extremism for political or military purposes.

1800_Ladladlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122015383#Comment_122015383

The people who play dumb are the most insufferable, they know exactly what they are doing. You'd spend the day listing incidents in the IPAS center and still, they'd ask how where why

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121636507#Comment_121636507

1800_Ladladlad

Internal documents from the Department of Justice had warned that amending the constitutional definition of family like what was proposed in the recent referendum, would "massively restrict the State’s ability to regulate its immigration system." Now we know that they knew they were lying.

Time and time again during the run-up to the recent failed referendum politicians repeatedly stated that “there would be no impact on immigration”. How can we have a person overseeing the migration pact who is so very clearly in favor of open borders & who has such a deep disregard for our laws & constitution? They will not put this to the public because they know how it will go.

Here we are again depending on Sen Michael McDowell.

https://twitter.com/TheLiberal_ie/status/1780327032175374771

prunudo

thats twice in one month I've agreed with McDowell, we live in strange times 😃

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122030658#Comment_122030658

There is a difference between ' behaving within the law ' and behaving like a complete ignoramus to inflame and incite others to violence

This was both .

1800_Ladladlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031106#Comment_122031106

Correction* apart from Neale Richmond. He told us all.

batman_oh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031325#Comment_122031325

This sounds like it you offend them you deserve it basically. Should Salman Rushdie have been targetted for life for writing a fantasy book that Islamists perceived as blasphemy? Was a teacher being beheaded a reasonable response because he offended the religion? Should the whole world be afraid to cause offence in case they get killed for being Islamaphobes? But lets take the piss out of every other religion because it's fair game? Maybe as part of this multicultural dream everybody should be required to leave behind or modify a belief that has you wanting to kill somebody for offending your space god

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031392#Comment_122031392

As I said in reply to another further up this page ,

Absolutely both are wrong and should feel the full force of the law.

Neither action is excusable

OscarMIlde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031445#Comment_122031445

Which is worse though. Burning a book or attacking and even killing people? They are not even in the same moral universe in terms of what is fundamentally right or wrong. No one would hesitate to utterly condemn actions like Batman described is if it occurred in response to a bible or the Torah being burnt or disrespected. When it's the Koran, and the actions he has described are all real events which happened in response to disrespect towards Islam, then suddenly comes the equivocation and the failure to realise how utterly batshit insane it is to think that is a valid reason to hurt, kill or maim people.

Sunny Disposition

Making an equivalence between those who have satirised a religion quite legally, such as Salman Rushdie; and those who have carried out real violence in a warped effort at retribution is disgusting.

Some people will stoop to any depths rather than admit an issue even exists.

JupiterKid

Islamic and Western values are simply not compatible. The evidence for this is overwhelming, despite repeated attempts by others to deny this via whataboutery and diversion.

Islam cannot and will not integrate in Western countries.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031630#Comment_122031630

There are Muslim countries that are very western, such as those in the Balkans. I'm surprised that posters are completely blinkered when it comes to this religion. The almost 2 billion Muslims in the world cannot be all the same!

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031608#Comment_122031608

Never said the two were equal .

But that neither are correct.

You can't justify acts against a person by saying" I can do this because someone else beheaded someone ." One does not cancel the other nor does it excuse another wrong . That's not how civil society behaves .

Of course those crimes you describe are horrendous On a different scale completely .

But incitement and racial baiting is wrong too .

This is whataboutery you are going on with ,folks .

Burning religious books, artefacts , flags , things people hold dear and venerate , no matter the item ..all wrong and immoral .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122031610#Comment_122031610

Who is making equivalence ? This is not what I have said and you know it !

I have talked about burning the Quran in front of people who venerate it .

I never mentioned Charlie Hebdo or any of the other atrocities committed by Islamic extremists..that would be you and others bringing " false equivalence " into it .

If people want to talk about how it's not offensive and what's the problem with burning that book in front of a primarily Islamic community then those same posters start talking about Islamic people not integrating , I think we can see why they won't integrate with ignorance like that .

Would you tell Irish Republicans in the North to clap and cheer for Unionist scrotes burning their Tricolour on bonfires on 12th July ?

No , they were asked to be restrained .

Why ? Because it was deeply offensive and baiting Irish Republicans .

It's literally " burning their Quran " .

It is very similar especially as many Irish people are more secular now but there are still some things we feel strongly about .

And in the not so distant past actions like these were incendiary.