Why I'll say no to a united ireland

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952969#Comment_121952969

If sports people have a choice of nationality as regards qualifying for the Olympics, it is often easier to get on to the Irish Olympic team than the UK one due the the UK population being so much bigger than the Irish population. So I sort of agree with you on that point, one persons decision is not really significant in the overall scheme of things.

As it happens, big as the UK pop is, they have nobody qualified at the weight division this girl is going for.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952982#Comment_121952982

But it's easier for FrancisMCM to make things up about various subjects rather than any real notion of the circumstances that have led to this issue of the boxer changing for her hopes to get to the Olympics.

I note they've now hopped on the "reputation of the flag" gibberish as well without a screed of thought.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952999#Comment_121952999

Again you make false accusations. I did not make up anything. I was not even referring specifically to the person from Dundalk or wherever. Read what I wrote:

"If sports people have a choice of nationality as regards qualifying for the Olympics, it is often easier to get on to the Irish Olympic team than the UK one due the the UK population being so much bigger than the Irish population. So I sort of agree with you on that point, one persons decision is not really significant in the overall scheme of things."

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953397#Comment_121953397

"If sports people have a choice of nationality as regards qualifying for the Olympics, it is often easier to get on to the Irish Olympic team than the UK

This seems made up to me.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953397#Comment_121953397

False accusations? I've flagged a number of your posts for outright mistruths that you've yet to address; so I can then assume your comfortable with those lies.

I'm sure you've an anecdote to go along with your Olympics story…

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952971#Comment_121952971

I was half expecting the DUP to awaken the walking cabbage Edwin Poots from wherever they managed to keep him cooped up.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953424#Comment_121953424

Rubbish. The population of the UK is 67 or 68 million. the population of Ireland is just over 5 million. So the population of the UK is something like 13 times more than that of Ireland. The competition in many sports ( not all, just most ) means it is often tougher to get on the UK Olympic team.

Put it another way, British athletes have won a combined total of 950 medals at the Olympic Games; Ireland has only won 35.

FrancieBrady, when you are in a hole, stop digging. Even if you want to divert from stories during the week concerning your party, like the flag on coffin of the Garda Killer ( the same Garda killer who also got a standing ovation at the SF Ard Fheis once), or the revelations from the BBC documentary "secret army" about the IRA in 1972, shown last week.

droidman123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953730#Comment_121953730

Just keeps posting the same point over and over again

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953730#Comment_121953730

Rubbish. The population of the UK is 67 or 68 million. the population of Ireland is just over 5 million. So the population of the UK is something like 13 times more than that of Ireland. The competition in many sports ( not all, just most ) means it is often tougher to get on the UK Olympic team.

I still think this is made up.
Can you show anything that proves it 'is easier' to get on an Irish Olympic team than a UK one?

Do you know anything about the 'qualifying' process and the 'standard' set by the International Olympic Committee? The standard has to be met by everyone taking part, so it is the same standard to get on an Irish team as it is to get on the UK team. As I said, even with the huge population difference the UK could not qualify anyone in the weight division the Irish girl is going for.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121952413#Comment_121952413

oh that’s absolutely my argument. You are the one said that if anyone changes their identity it demonstrates problems with the country/ politics. She simply wants to box at the olympics. Would you now agree

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954863#Comment_121954863

she hasn’t changed her identity. She is still Irish. Barry McGuigan didn’t change his to fight in the Commonwealth etc.

Unionists who identified as British have changed their identity according to the census. It’s a demographic in decline per the census results.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954935#Comment_121954935

Just to clarify the above ^ I don't actually know if she has changed her identity or not, what I mean is, she doesn't have to, to do what she is doing, just as McGuigan didn't to fight in the Commonwealth games.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953901#Comment_121953901

Then tell me why have British athletes won a combined total of 950 medals at the Olympic Games, while Ireland has only won 35?

I pointed out to you the relative population size differences but you seem to have rubbished that.

We are not talking about one specific sportsperson (girl as you call her). We are talking about in general.

At the last Olympics, the UK won 67 medals. We ( Ireland ) won 4.

At the Olympics before that, the UK won 67 medals. We ( Ireland ) won 2.

It is not unreasonable to conclude they have stronger Olympic teams on average / they have more top level medal athletes, capable of winning medals : not surprising because of the size of their population etc.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955771#Comment_121955771

Then tell me why have British athletes won a combined total of 950 medals at the Olympic Games, while Ireland has only won 35?

...

It is not unreasonable to conclude they have stronger Olympic teams on average : nor surprising because of the size of their population etc

This is naive and reductive. Population is not the absolute here and you're sidestepping the myriad ways sport and culture inform relative international success. Holland and Finland have populations parallel to ours yet have each amassed about 100 gold medals alone across the entire Summer Olympics history.

Ireland's sporting heritage is complicated and can't be rationalised as simply one of population size, but a range of factors - not least the dominance of GAA, and a chronic lack of investment - or interest - in athletics in the first place. We barely had tracks for the longest time, olympic sized swimming pools, or concrete tennis courts. Ireland has never been a track and field country, dutto most Olympic sports out there.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955771#Comment_121955771

I don't know much about the Olympics qualification process, but I'd imagine the argument isn't being made that GB are not more likely to win medals (due to population, as you said); the increase in population means that GB tend to have a much larger number of athletes representing them at the Olympics, leading to more medals.

However this doesn't inherently mean that for an individual athlete that it is easier to qualify for the Olympics to represent Ireland; the difference in population could instead be reflected in the much lower number of Irish athletes competing at the Olympics.

Your argument would make sense if Ireland sent the same number of athletes as a country with over ten times the population; of course that would require a drop in standards to reach those numbers. Alternatively, standards could be kept comparable and Ireland would have substantially fewer people representing the country.

I'm not hugely into the Olympics, so I'll leave it to you to work out which of these is more representative of reality? Are Ireland sending a similar number of athletes to GB, which would necessitate a lowering of standards, or are they sending a much smaller number of athletes which would explain their much lower medal haul without any drop in the quality of individual athletes?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955771#Comment_121955771

Population difference isn't relevant.
All athletes must reach a standard set by the IOC. It is no different for an Irish athlete than it is for a UK one.

Well done on taking the chance to engage in some more under researched 'the UK is better than here' nonsense.

Suckler

This Olympics nonsense won't end here, it'll be a rabbit hole and another hill they're intent on dying on.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121953730#Comment_121953730

It Is team GB not the UK. It takes in all athletes overseas British territory and crown dependencies too. The naming is a bit controversial too as many athletes such as anyone from the north does not come from GB.

As explained before many events have a qualifying target that athletes must make. So in many events it is a tough to get into any team as athletes have to make that time.

Btw what was the point of this argument? To show how much better it is for the north to be part of the GB set up? Surly you would just compare the number of medals by athletes from the north with the south and the make allowance for the population difference. It would be very complicated as many athletes from the north represent Ireland as many sports have an all Ireland set up and athletes of all backgrounds play for Ireland in the Olympics

McDougal2

You could be getting one quicker than you imagined with 'ol Jeffery off the scene now and forever.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955836#Comment_121955836

If population difference is not relevant, how come at the last Olympics, the UK won 67 medals. We ( Ireland ) won 4. At the Olympics before that, the UK won 67 medals. We ( Ireland ) won 2.

The reason is mainly due to population difference, but other factors as well such as training facilities etc.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956646#Comment_121956646

Nice attempt to divert.
You claimed it was easier to get on the Irish team than a UK/Team GB one.
It isn't and it has been shown to you why that is.

And despite the difference in population, the UK could not produce a qualifying boxer in the weight division, hence leaving it easy and open to the Irish boxer to apply.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956646#Comment_121956646

If population was the sole or primary arbiter of sporting success India, China and America would be the world's greatest footballing nations by a considerable margin. Yet they barely register, the first two definitive minnows.

Obviously not quite translating to Olympics given China's historical dominance in medalling but you're really burying the lede here rather than admit it's not just population - and in fact, it's not at all about it.

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955845#Comment_121955845

Ahem…..

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956670#Comment_121956670

There are in general more people competing in the UK to represent the UK than there are people in Ireland competing to represent Ireland.

One of the main reasons for

"At the last Olympics, the UK won 67 medals. We ( Ireland ) only won 4.

At the Olympics before that, the UK won 67 medals. We ( Ireland ) only won 2."

We are talking in general terms, not of one specific woman ( you called her a girl ) in one specific category of boxing in one year or whatever.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956758#Comment_121956758

Francis- it has been shown to you that it is no easier to get on Team GB than it is any other national Olympic team.

No amount of comparing medals or populations is going to change that. It’s irrelevant to what you claimed.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955836#Comment_121955836

I am pretty sure you are wrong. Olympic set a minimum standard and then nations set their own standard above that.

downcow

I think you are wrong. ‘Team GB’ is a marketing brand. The team is officially called Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

downcow

Wrong!

Suckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121957308#Comment_121957308

Do you just put your fingers in your ears and announce this at random?!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121957296#Comment_121957296

Yes, they all do. But first they must meet the IOC standard and nobody did in that weight division in the UK.