The eviction ban

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332577#Comment_120332577

AFAIK the tenant would have to match the other offer, they would have first refusal but only at the market price. The LL would not have any obligation to accept a lower offer from a sitting tenant.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332821#Comment_120332821

Th legislation has yet to be finalised but it doesn't force a LL to sell just give a sitting tenant first refusal, the opportunity for a sitting tenant who is in receipt of HAP to apply to a local authority buy + rent back scheme but either would be at the market price i.e. match any offer from a private buyer.

The LL still has the choice to sell or not so there's no compulsory purchase element to it.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332871#Comment_120332871

It won't be easy to get the balance right. The legislation will need to avoid inflating house prices by putting local authorities in a bidding war against private buyers.

It also needs to consider the needs of private renters who aren't in receipt of HAP but don't have the means to have a deposit or get a mortgage.

This middle cohort, above the HAP means threshold but below the means to buy should not be forgotten and left hang out to dry.

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329451#Comment_120329451

Not good enough, you need to cut income tax on rent to the bone, as well as guarantee the rent for non payers, sorry but that’s what it’ll take to make landlords turn around and decide it’s worth the risk, or potential investors investing. A debt moratorium WTF postponing someone’s debt when what they want to do is get it paid off as quickly as possible? Nope sorry there’s a price to keep people letting properties and the government either pays it or watches the rental market collapse.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332939#Comment_120332939

or why not just cut out the middle man and have the government give the renters a free home ...

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332959#Comment_120332959

They’re welcome to do it, but there has to be a radical overhaul of the system if they want to keep the landlords they have, they’ll just keep leaving if their costs aren’t covered or it’s causing hardship, simple as that

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332962#Comment_120332962

One thing worth looking at, that I haven't seen much mention of, is to defer or reduce inheritance tax / capital gains tax on a property, perhaps on a sliding scale, provided it is rented for a number of years. This could help reduce the number of forced estate sales.

There's no single magic bullet. It will take a number of coordinated measures to navgate a way out of the current housing crisis.

PeadarCo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332871#Comment_120332871

The biggest problem with selling to sitting tenants or the council is that it only addresses one segment of the rental market ie families. If the family could afford to buy the place of the landlord there is a decent chance that would happen anyway as there is nothing stopping them bidding anyway.

It doesn't address a situation where you have a number of adults house sharing. This is not unusual ie at college, starting first job etc. It's very hard for 4/5 people to buy a house together even if they want to. It's s highly unlikely that a number of random people or even friends will want to buy a house together. Even in a situation where a council bought a house like this it's unlikely they would keep renting to the existing tenants. The housing lists are long enough.

The biggest problem with the eviction ban is that its a short term only measure and long term makes the rental market worse. We need people investing in housing and the rental market. An eviction ban just makes the situation worse for people wanting to rent in future as it puts investors off. It also discourages landlords putting houses back on market when tenancies naturally end.

The only people it benefits at all are existing tenants. No one seems to care about future renters. Which has been the focus of all measures so far introduced by the government egged on by the opposition. Unfortunately measures that produce a functional rental market don't seem to be vote winners.

Galwayguy35

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332444#Comment_120332444

How on earth is a landlord playing the system by using the rent money to pay their mortgage?

Your posts are like something PBP would come out with.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332065#Comment_120332065

What's your point tho? The rent is still disgustingly high. My response was in reply to someone laughably claiming landlords are charity hahaha

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331330#Comment_120331330

That may well be the case, but good luck arguing that in court.

Landlords who take court action will point to the numbers and say this measure is affecting our rights and doing nothing for the policy problem, the solution lies elsewhere and not in attacking our rights. Court will likely agree and tell government to address the other 9 reasons.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331549#Comment_120331549

We are one of the most equal countries in the world, and also have less poverty than most.

Ham_Sandwich

everyone is entitled to a home it should be a referendum but alot of land lords are up against it they have to pay taxes on there wages and there money they get from the rent should be one or the other and lot of land lords are there by accident not fair to tar them all with the one brush

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333659#Comment_120333659

Another person who doesn't believe in income tax. Christ on a bike.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333659#Comment_120333659

@eggy81 a new one there for you pal.

MrMusician18

To be honest, the government should never have introduced the eviction ban as it just stored up problems. We will now have a big bang mass eviction when this expires. The ban was never sustainable.

Another massive policy mistake as a result of bowing to populism. Government deserve all the opprobrium they get.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333685#Comment_120333685

Ha. Can’t argue with that one.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332939#Comment_120332939

Tax breaks, like cutting tax on rental income "to the bone", are generally a terrible idea. They narrow the tax base and make marginal tax rates higher then they otherwise might be. If landlords' taxable income is defined properly and consistently with any other small businesses, i don't see the problem: you deduct all relevant costs, such as mortgage, maintenance, etc and you tax what's left. I'm not sure if landlord's rental income is treated consistently with other businesses.

Maybe someone can clarify this.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333680#Comment_120333680

Right Im going to try and explain something to you - first of all of course landlords should pay income tax but they shouldnt have to pay such a high amount. Alot of the anti-landlord brigade dont realise that landlords only get a tax deduction on the interest portion of their mortgage payment - they do not get a tax deduction for the capital portion. This means although the mortgage may be substantially covered by the rent paid the landlord can still be left with a cashflow problem due to tax. See the example below - lets assume for simplicity annual rental income is €18000, mortgage is €15600, interest portion is €2400.

Tax calculation

Rent €18000

Interest -€2400

Insurance -€1000

Misc exp -€3200

PROFIT -€11,400

Tax @ 52% -€5928 ( assuming all landlords credits, cut off used in PAYE job)

Now lets look at this from a cashflow point of view ( money in v money out)

Rent €18000

Mortgage -€15600

Insurance - €1000

Misc exp -€3200

Tax -€5928

Deficit -€7728 - This means €7728 per year has to come from somewhere else to cover the costs of having the rental property

All the above is before the landlord needs to spend money on furniture, boilers, structural repairs etc. Can you now see why landlords want to get out?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333806#Comment_120333806

It's not exactly fair though to subsidize the capital though. At the end of the day, the landlord is left with a valuable asset.

boccers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333806#Comment_120333806

I wonder do most people realise this because if they do I don't see how so much hatred for landlords can be out there. Your example perfectly illustrates why so many landlords are leaving the market. A rental company that is taxed at 12.5% and can write off all expenses is so different to a regular PAYE worker/workers with a second house they are renting out being taxed as your example shows.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333848#Comment_120333848

They may be left with a valuable asset depending on location, type of property, condition of the property, market at the time etc. But If landlords have to every year pull money from other income or savings to cover the cost of a rental property than its not a great investment. Many small landlords are struggling personally because of this.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333886#Comment_120333886

Most people think the rent paid to the landlord is covering the mortgage and its happy days for the landlord when its far from that when tax is factored in. Maybe the government should look at allowing all the mortgage payment to be tax deductible and then charge a larger capital gains tax rate when rental properties are sold.

Of course its a different story for landlords that have no mortgage - they are doing well.

bluedex

It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks of LLs. There are certain facts and logical conclusions that the LL bashers don't seem to acknowledge.

Facts:

• There has been increased government intervention in the rental market over the last 5-10 years, like rent controls and now the "eviction ban".
• There has been a mass exodus from the rental market by private property owners - it's not a recent phenomenon, it started years ago when owners saw the commentary, the trends and the likely outcome, which they predicted correctly in the main.

Conclusion:

• It's reasonable to say there's a link a between the two points above.

Although I can understand the short term emotional/humanitarian reasons for a temporary winter ban, from a medium/long term prospective the eviction ban should not have been imposed as this will reduce supply further. Supply is already way too low for the property market as a whole, buyers and renters.

So, it's irrelevant what anyone thinks of LLs. Being a LL basher achieves absolutely nothing and actually exacerbates the problem, it's just people having a moan and ignoring the real issues.

Less private LLs = less supply of rental properties = higher rents & more people without their own home.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333894#Comment_120333894

That's the risk you take with investing, returns are not guaranteed.

To change it that so the amount of money that a landlord would need to put in is reduced effectively makes it a state guaranteed completely risk free investment. i.e. essentially giving assets to the wealthy.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333926#Comment_120333926

You say that like most landlords are actually paying tax.

Sunny Disposition

Giving tenants 'first refusal' to buy houses if a landlord sells, yet another stupid idea, which will spook existing landlords and make investors less likely to get involved. The State needs to stay the fck out of things, coercinglandlords to do things with properties they actually own is going to discourage people from continuing to rent out housing.

Ending the eviction ban is 100% the right move, but it will be opposed by the likes of PBP, SF etc. It's not that these people have sh!t for brains, they also know it's the right move and that extending it would further worsen the position for tenants.

However they are also very cynical and are gambling that they can inflict some political damage on their opponents. They think the public are so stupid that they won't understand that an eviction ban discourages landlords and will lead to further scarcity.

Rent controls and eviction bans have been unmitigated disasters, but still these loony lefters want more of such measures. Populism at its worst. And FF/FG introducing these things in the first place is a big part of the reason the market is fcked.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333989#Comment_120333989

The vast majority of landlords are paying tax. You will still have idiots though that are not - legislation on rental properties is so strict now that any landlord not declaring their income to revenue is very foolish. Ive heard of a case recently where a landlords insurance wouldnt pay up because he wasnt registered with revenue. Any landlord not paying tax will be eventually be caught out one way or another.

Sunny Disposition

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333936#Comment_120333936

Excellent point. Landlord bashing has been the basis for a lot of Irish housing policy and it has destroyed the market. A load of jackasses thought the landlords will just be there anyway, no matter what obstacles are put in their path. Well, they're finding out that's not the case.

Given the stupidity it has shown in recent years it is very surprising that the Government opted to do the right thing by tenants and landlords by ending the eviction ban. They're even trying to explain why it's a good idea, in the face of a crowd of idiots (who also know what the right thing to do is) shouting and wailing.

It really is a serious indictment of SF, they know measures like the eviction ban are going to result in more hardship for tenants, but they still criticise the ending of it, because they believe the public are too stupid to understand the reality.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333773#Comment_120333773

Mortgage interest relief is gone or reduced. Certain expenses such as refurbishment pre-renting aren't allowed either. Neither are purchase costs such as solicitor and estate agent fees etc.