The eviction ban

Sunny Disposition

There shouldn't have been one in the first place, and extending it would have made the housing crisis worse because it would have again shown landlords that the Government doesn't have a problem bypassing their rights to their own property.

If the Government wanted to ease pressure in the rental market it would make it much easier for landlords to deal with tenants who don't want to pay what they owe. Those bloodsuckers are making it impossible for honest, working people, who want to rent houses.

Threadbans:

Donald Trump

Shelga

Everyone I’ve seen talk about this publicly seems to either be “We absolutely must extend the eviction ban” or “the eviction ban is terrible and unconstitutional”- as usual, there seems to be no one who can see pros and cons to it.

From my POV, it does seem to be mostly cons. Small-time landlords are exiting the market in their droves, mostly because of government interference in everything, from what I can see. It really doesn’t matter whether people on Twitter give out about landlords- we need them if we want rental accommodation. It’s that simple. They should be asking how an environment can be fostered where being a landlord is appealing. Sadly, it seems like it’s too late.

The only pro is that desperate people won’t be evicted for another 6 months, but that’s government forcing small-time landlords to take responsibility for the state’s own appalling failures on housing. It also seems to be impossible to evict people who actually deserve to be evicted.

It’s all just an absolutely desperate state of affairs, and anyone who voted FG in the next GE needs their head examined.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325454#Comment_120325454

100% agree with you

It's basically 30 years of rot. There's no saving it now.

IMO Small time Landlords were Landlording before the RTB existed, as it was great back then. They could do what ever they wanted, use rent money to pay the mortgage without paying tax (not officially, but your chances of getting caught were extremely low). It was a great way to make a load of money/get someone else to pay for a property for you.

As the RTB came into existence all that began changing. All of a sudden the Tax man is watching, as you now have to be registered. There were limits on what you could and couldn't do. Rent pressure zones and caps came into effect, and there was a mad scramble to try and charge extra for things like: Parking spots in apartments, having a pet, etc

Landlords were still able to make money but they weren't making the extortionate amount of money they were previously.

The tightening of regulations is a good thing, and I think they should get tighter, in that there needs to be rules about how many people are allowed to share a room/dwelling and the quality/upkeep/state of a rented dwelling.

The kicker here is that all this started when the vulture and cuckoo funds came into town, and as the word Landlord became dirty and people starting bailing out, the funds picked up the slack. But they're happy to keep the properties empty as they base their bottom line on the appreciation in value of the said asset rather than the rent they make off it.

Complete mess.

I get there are accidental landlords, but they are outlier cases

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325777#Comment_120325777

Hefty property tax on dwellings that are empty for more that 4 months of the year in rent pressure zones.

IE Use it for residential purposes and make money off it or sell it to someone that will either rent it themselves or live in it, you can't sit on it.

The VHT as it stands is a joke: less than 30 days for 12 months, self assessed at the basic rate of LPT.

There's 48,000 properties empty in Ireland for over 6 years, that alone is a crazy statistic.

Pawwed Rig

The government has shown what the future holds for landlords in that they will take control of peoples property as they see fit. I am getting out of the rental market asap because of this and selling up. It is an absolute mugs game if you are not an institutional investor where they can get tax free rents.

I honestly feel for anyone who is homeless or facing eviction but I cannot finance the lives of strangers directly aswell as indirectly (via tax)

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325914#Comment_120325914

I don't think its the rate so much that's the issue, more so what qualifies a property as vacant.

For example "one" you might be married with two kids (say 10 and 15) and you have a second or ever third property from deceased parents.

You want to sit on those properties for your kids for when they are older, they were inherited between a married couple so there is likely very little or nothing owed on them. Renting is to much hassle, so just leave them empty and say you live in them for 30 days each year and you're exempt from that 3% tax.

For example "two" you have a fund that is banking on the assets (whole block of apartments) gaining 10% value in the next 12 months, Vulture funds are exempt from tax on that 10% increase in the value of the asset (Mr Noonan). If one of those apartments is worth 300k, that 10% is 30k which is more than they would ever make renting it, and they can offload the asset quickly if they need to. Renting actually equates to hassle for these funds, but that was not envisaged when the plans to attract them to come here began just after the crash. 3% tax to these guys might be a big enough hit, but they're still making 7% "profit" on it and the property is still empty. Renting is not their business.

I'd imagine there is ALOT of the above going on. (very hard to prove though) I do know though that, a lot the lights in Capital One come on at the same exact same time every night.

Cleaning up the mess is going to be extremely painful for any government.

Consonata

We never should have been so dependent on smaller Landlords to plug a gap in the property market to begin with to be quite honest. I don't have that much sympathy with the supposed aggrieved private Landlords who were lucky enough to buy a house in Dublin when the price was right. My sympathy is with people who are trapped renting at extortionate levels if they want to continue working at a good paying job.

With that said, the eviction ban longterm likely wasn't going to be sustainable. Sinn Féin talking about doing it for 6 months wasn't going to do much. No matter how much emergency legislation you could bring in, no amount of cash is going to magic up 50,000 units of housing in that time frame, which is likely the amount of homes which will be required to make any respite from this crisis.

This is also not to mention that most political parties go out of their way to denounce any housing development in their local area, PBP and SF included in that!

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326051#Comment_120326051

No such thing as social and affordable homes whilst building costs are through the roof unfortunately. The LDA, the Govt. body is also building at a 20% premium compared to the private sector currently.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325914#Comment_120325914

I'd say you'd be deluding yourself if you think there aren't 48k people renting who would gladly purchase those houses and have mortgage repayments less than rent. The issue is that present government policy allows speculators to make easy money by hoarding what should essentially be a common good

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325454#Comment_120325454

this whole mess goes back to no houses being built.

this has massively inflated property values, so people are selling, i mean landlording is about investment and profit, end of

nothing about interference with landlords. Sure those who want to be landlords are getting handsome rents, why sell?

Economics101

Getting rid of the eviction ban will still leave a 2-tier rental system: partly-frozen rents for those tenants in situ and very high free-market rents for newcomers. As long as this persists, existing landlords will leave, or be sqeezed out.

No real solution until rent controls are abolished. Then existing tenants will lose, but overall rents should converge on somewhere between frozen and free-market levels. This of course would be political dynamite, so there would have to be an interim period of say 5 years to allow upward adjustments to market levels, plus a special HAP-style tenant support scheme.

Badly-designed rent controls inevitable lead to big problems. When will politicians ever learn?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326150#Comment_120326150

We cant dictate to someone what they can and cant do with their property. Not long term anyway. Case in point today with the eviction ban.

That is completely incorrect. If it was true, nobody would ever need planning permission for one thing.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326193#Comment_120326193

You are correct.

At the very least, there are people renting at historical low rents who are saving more and more to buy, ready to go if the rent controls are ever lifted. As a result, both the landlord and homeless are losing out.

Patrick2010

Darragh O Brien on Newstalk now saying he has instructed councils to buy houses that have tenants facing eviction, 600 in total. So house buyers, bear in mind you might be bidding against the local council for your dream house, guess who has the most money?

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326193#Comment_120326193

the obvious solution to this is to control the rent price set on properties that are exempt currently

I mean youd wonder why they left that loophole, they love a loophole 🤣

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326261#Comment_120326261

Reasonable point. However, would you recommend bidding on a ‘dream house’ if it involved tenants who may not be too keen to move out?

My friend (actual friend not made up anecdote I Promise) recently withdrew from a sale agreed as he became legitimately concerned tenants would not move out and solicitor essentially advised ‘bail out now’’

monkeybutter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326261#Comment_120326261

kachiiiiiing for those selling, it not like they can purchase these unless they pay full whack

howiya

I don't agree with the eviction ban so don't think it should have been introduced. However the trialling of it for three months so that they can point to it not working doesn't sit well with me either.

A fairly cynical ploy instead of governing and standing up to those demanding it in the media, social media etc. If it's not a good idea now it wasn't a good idea then.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326301#Comment_120326301

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the anecdote. That would have always been the case. Well I mean unless you go back decades and decades or even further.

If you wanted a house to move into straight away, you would only ever buy one with vacant possession. That's not new.

Doc07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326664#Comment_120326664

Maybe it wasn’t that common an example and apologies if so. I just meant buying from someone moving out of their house and having to compete with council would certainly seem unfair for those in first time buyer category etc. But where council are being asked to buy in this case includes scenarios where the current tenants wish to remain? Therefore precarious for a potential buyer who wants to be an owner occupier.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325840#Comment_120325840

The Government should have no business telling you what to do with your own property.

It's up to the Government to house those without a roof over their head, not private property owners.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325840#Comment_120325840

What percentage of the day are you using your car?

When you’re not using it some knacker should have the right to take it for a small charge that the government pay from your taxes. You can ask for it back when you need it.

Except if they don’t want to give it back and/or pocket the money the government give them from your taxes instead of paying for it’s use then screw you. Greedy car owner! And if you do ever get it back they’ve taken a c*** in the glove box.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326725#Comment_120326725

I fully agree that opening the public purse (with, no doubt, the traditional absence of any accountability) in order to compete against private buyers is stupidity of the highest order.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326710#Comment_120326710

If you have a commercial property under a lease, and you want to sell it, you have to sell it with the lessee in-situ.

At no stage was there any rule or law against selling your property or not.

Also, people are commonly forced to sell properties to the State under CPO, or threat of CPO

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326266#Comment_120326266

I don't know what exactly you mean by that. Extend controls to non-pressure zones? Impose some sort of arbitrary limit on all rents?

More market distortions and no positive effect on overall supply.

tinsofpeas

The housing situation in this country is just beyond words. Nearly.

It has been created with purposeful action. Short term profit was put above all else, with many people making fortunes and many people put in desperate situations. That's short term planning and greed for you.

And now, lo and behold, the short term is over. Its time for society to pay the piper.

The only thing for sure is that when it comes to a toss-up between someone and their investment versus people going onto the streets, sympathy will only go one way.

May you live in interesting times, Ireland.

Galwayguy35

Mick Barry the dirty red commie says tenents should refuse to leave the property if a landlord wants their house back.

There was a landlord who texted in to the radio saying his tenents were paying nothing and he was 11 k out of pocket but you rarely hear about that, being a small landlord just seems more bother than its worth these days.

Fred Astaire

Any small landlord with a brain will sell as soon as this ban is up. This ban has told small landlords that the government will take control of your property as they see fit.

Imagine being stupid enough to not sell before the next eviction ban next winter. Because, have no fear, there is going to be another one.

This whole fiasco will decimate what is left of the rental market in Ireland.

tinsofpeas

Whatever about the extreme anecdotes, druggie layabout tenant or slumlord extraordinaire.

If an average person was a tenant in an average landlords property, I certainly wouldn't leave if I knew I was walking into homelessness. Who would?

The country is pure mickey mouse. You could have thousands in cash in pocket, references up the wahoo, a decent job, bank statements back to the 1800's, an affidavit from the pope, and you still would find it nigh on impossible to get a place to rent these days. And if you do, you're going to need all the money you can get under the sun.

Tenants and landlords and everyone in between need to get these government things out the door. Or fight each other. Easy choice.

But yeah, only a madman would walk into homelessness voluntarily.

Emblematic

I think one of the problems is groups representing small landlords lobbying until recently that the big danger to the market was oversupply. It makes sense. The fewer units built the more their rents skyrocket. They were arguing this point as recently as January of last year.

They have changed their tune now but only because the crisis came to such a head that the government was forced to postpone no-fault evictions to prevent mass homelessness.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326744#Comment_120326744

So you don't want to be able to ask the local council to make your neighbour take down the unilaterally built monstrous extension overlooking and overshadowing your back garden? The one built with no consultation or permission?

Larbre34

There are many necessary solutions to the shortage of housing across the market. Some are easier to deliver than others.

But the one thing that must be done, that has never been properly done, is to set a clear and unambiguous overarching housing and planning policy for years to come that gives certainty to providers, whether its State agencies, approved housing bodies, developers, investors, aspiring owner occupiers, renters, bungalow blissers or mom and pop landlords.

It should be a strategic policy that protects against economics shocks and gives everyone putting money into creating homes that the returns will be modest, but certain, that there will be fairness in tenancy and in ownership and that taxation will be on the basis of the business that housing provision is and not on the basis of income tax. On the other hand, the standards required of landlords should be extremely high and very rigidly enforced.

There is a win-win to be achieved in Housing, but it requires massive big brass balls to slay some old sacred cows and change course from the mess we are now in.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326633#Comment_120326633

In fairness to the government, they were faced with potentially thousands of families on the street through no fault of their own. Some sort of short term measure was needed while they put the longer term solution in place.

The problem, of course, is they did not do the latter.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326744#Comment_120326744

If the Government actually did this and provided as house at a reasonable rent to everyone that needed one, private landlords would also complain that their businesses were being undercut by the State.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326072#Comment_120326072

He also said there are currently 37 under construction. That's horrendous

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327166#Comment_120327166

Nor did they ever intend to do the latter. Hence my cynicism.

tinsofpeas

A quick look at the prime time segment there. Desperate.

If you're about to be put out onto the streets, it just doesn't make any sense to comply. It would be mortifying and humiliating, but the alternative is being mortified and humiliated sleeping on the streets. Its a very difficult decision, but it's an easy choice.

Not to mention that once you're put out, you'll have zero agency in political discourse.

In this utterly crazy situation, years in the careful making, everything is on the table now. I wouldn't be surprised nor would condemn if mass occupation of empty homes and buildings occurred.

A convergence of those affected, landlords, homeless, and tenants, those sleeping in cars, on couches, everyone, needs to come down on this government and opposition like a bomb.

It can be done next month when it's difficult, or in two months when it's worse, or next year when it's worse again. This isn't going to change on its own and the eviction ban is a flash in the pan of trouble to come.

Youd have 3rd hand embarassment from a thousand miles away. Look at how wealthy we are, say some, and then you see the shambling state of the place. A country wrecked for a few quick bob. Some trade.

irishproduce

Watching prime time tonight was shocking.

One tenant complaining she, her kids and their kids facing homelessness. Not a peep about why are all the kids being had as this seems to only make their situations more precarious. Not a mention of personal responsibility.

Then on to the grilling from the presenter to the minister, "but where are you telling her she should go now on April 1st, tell her where she is supposed to sleep".

I agree it's difficult and wouldn't fancy being in her situation but this is pure cradle to grave stuff if the government running your life for you. To make matters worse then, the government keep importing more people who are entirely dependent on the state. And I'm not talking about Ukrainians, you'd give them a pass with what they're facing.

tinsofpeas

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn an obviously cherry picked example as the woman with children and grandchildren. Saying she should have personal responsibility for the existence of the children is akin to saying they should do the economically sensible thing and just die.

Not to mention there are plenty of people who'd be far more economically pleasing to the eye that are in just as much hot water. Of the top of my head I can think of several families in such dire straits, but carefully hidden in plain sight.

There is a swelling current of invisible people badly affected by this housing crisis that won't be caught in reports or statistics.

As for the migration thing, it's like hearing someone ndlessly complain about lack of desserts and treats in a famine. There's more than enough serious trouble for people in Ireland as it is, notions of accommodating more people is up there with perpetual energy. Brainless. Barely worth the oxygen to say shut up.

What is the cracking point for people? Do you need it to be your own son on the street before you do something? Will a cousin cut it? A neighbour? An old friend?

This continues until its stopped, it'll never end on its own.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326261#Comment_120326261

he wants my taxes to compete to buy a house that I’m trying to buy by working & getting a mortgage & then councils will probably put people in it that are on welfare or refugees & will never generate 1 cent in for this country.

Mess

Bass Reeves

The government could not renew the EB as the courts would over turn it within months if not weeks unless there was exemption for owners to get the house back for themselves or for family members. 94% of units are owned by non institutional LL. A LL with 1-2 properties would have managed to get a property back by claiming it was needed for a family member. Within a short time of respossession the For Sale sign might be up on it. A vacancy tax will not work with owners of 1-2 properties that are vacant. They will just put a family members PPS number against it and that will prevent any liability. Even at that many vacant units are belong to people living with relatives, going through probate, belong to people in nursing homes etc. No vacancy tax will effect. Even if an effect VT was introduced it would take 3-5 yeras to see any serious changes.

The governmet now needs to change tack and legislate to encourage owners of vacant properties to start renting them again. As well they need to look at the RTB and regulation and make changes to certain aspects that will encourage LL to stage in the rental market. 43K units have left the sector since 2016.

Donald Trump

It would be more likely that the politicians are getting lobbied by property owners to end it. People going on about AG are just those with perpetual paranoid victim mentalities.

Don't forget that a huge chunk of the TDs appear to have multiple properties. Which they are entitled to have of course.

tinsofpeas

It has to be recognised that arguing over the finicky points of regulation and theoretical policies 5 years from now is a position of comfort.

For those currently on the sharp end of this housing crisis, there is no such comfort.

The comfortable vs the uncomfortable is a ratio that is rapidly swinging one direction.

Something is going to give. As if that couldn't have been predicted.

I think it would be a genuinely beneficial thing, all round, if this eviction lifting causes uncomfortable scenes across the country. Show people being lifted out of a home, show children being put out too, show standoffs between gardai and squatters, show places being boarded up from the inside. Make a big fat holy show of it. Show, and don't tell, the state of housing in the country for all those afraid to look up from their shoes day in and out.

Jinglejangle69

Love how posters here keep saying the streets, the streets.

Lets get one thing straight.

Not one family has spent a night on the streets in Ireland.

End of. Stop falling for the lies.

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326907#Comment_120326907

Also a landlord in RTE yesterday who had a tenant who didn’t pay rent for 3 years, went to the PRTB and they didn’t want to know.

We are now a communist country in all but name.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327896#Comment_120327896

Landlords have plenty of sway. As illustrated by the billions the State send their way every year. As well as the massive, and undeserved, gift to them whereby they are actually allowed to break a tenancy (a legally binding contract) because they say they need something, or their family needs it. Nowhere else would that be allowed. Imagine you going into work tomorrow and your boss telling you that he is letting you go with immediate effect because he needs your job for his kid. Would that be allowed? Of course not. Imagine signing a contract with a company to deliver something for them, and half way through you are summoned in and told they are cancelling the contract because the manager's relative just lost their job and they can do it instead.

It was a temporary moratorium. It might be brought it again. There is an opportunity now for anyone who was moaning about it to actually sell up and leave it. Most won't. They'll be back on here whinging again next year if another one is implemented.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327925#Comment_120327925

Not one family?

Yeah, that's very believable. Next you'll be telling us there isn't a housing crisis but an accommodation inconvenience.

A car is a good as a home, right. A child growing up in a hotel is perfectly acceptable. A setee, why not, the basis of a sustainable and fruitful future. And, yes, people living on the streets.

You might be one of the ones that needs to be shown and not told. So yeah, make as a big a show of it as possible, there's people to convince.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327942#Comment_120327942

What is the full story there?

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327949#Comment_120327949

Riiiiiiiight so you have just proved my point that not one family has ended up on “the streets” in Ireland.

Thanks..

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327977#Comment_120327977

Yeah, there are a list of reasons.

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/34/enacted/en/html#sec34

But they cannot evict for one reason and then not do it. If they don't do what they intended to do, they have to offer it back to the evicted tenant. Or else they leave themselves open to a claim.

tinsofpeas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120327967#Comment_120327967

You must be awfully invested in this housing crisis. Jinglejangle in the pocket, those shiny pennies look after the pounds, am I right?

Sorry, I meant housing inconvenience. For others. Not yourself, that goes without saying.

Jinglejangle.