Northern Ireland is now Catholic Majority

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665939#Comment_119665939

Half the population have private health insurance and almost 40% have a medical card so that's the reality and health outcomes are measured so no need to rely on anecdote we can see in the figures that the republics healthcare is better.

jmayo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666403#Comment_119666403

Ahh FFS.

Sorry but what age are you?

The US under Clinton was interested in Ireland, he had lived in UK during beginning of civil rights movement/troubles as far as I remember.

He got involved in Ireland and Yugoslavia.

Biden sees himself as Irish American, but what about the dudes in between.

Did Trump or Bush really give a flying fook about Ireland?

Even Obama ?

Did Reagan the other "Irishman" in the White House do anything bar lick Maggie's hole for his 8 years in charge?

Likewise be wary of the EU.

Oh yeah they stood with us regarding the border during Brexit negotiations, but don't ever ever assume that the other 25 will give a flying fook about us most of the time. Especially so if it really really affects them.

Did they bend over backwards when the troika were sent in?

When are some Irish people going to cop on the world does not revolve around us, we are not so special.

Yeah we have special access to places like Washington around St Patricks Day, but that is about it.

Also watch in the US how the Irish lobby becomes less powerful to say the Hispanic lobby in the coming years.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666667#Comment_119666667

100% agree.

The idea that a united Ireland would be so special that everyone would be throwing grants at it is in some sort of fantasy dreamland.

The reality is that a united Ireland requires higher taxes on everyone in the South.

Grassey

Sure what's another tax between friends... Be good to see tax paid going towards something constructive than pissed into the wind.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666425#Comment_119666425

Do a poll so - Do you think the Health Service in the Republic is? a)Brilliant b) Crap

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665465#Comment_119665465

You did not read my post. I dont mind a UI being devolved. A regional jurisdiction that meets at stormont is possible but it must not be the boundary line of what was the 6 counties of NI. If there is a UI we did fresh regional boundaries with no historical baggage like NI. Your solution to a UI seems to be just welding together NI and ROI.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666667#Comment_119666667

Exactly - as far as the EU is concerned, we are an island behind a bigger island and that's about it.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665536#Comment_119665536

No facts to back that. You dont know what people who put NI want in a UI. Do you think everyone who puts NI on their identity want tge same thing. This is just your ideology to turn NI into a nation which it clearly is not. You must be disappointing that NI only identity fell in the last 10 years despite you always claiming it is a growing cohert.

There is no reason why a UI cant have a devolved governments that dont include what was a 1921 madeup boundary line exclusively for prodesents that turned out to be a social disaster. Have a develoved Ulster in UI or any otherway but that bounday of NI must die because after Israel itis known to be the biggest social disaster in the world.

You cant accept this as we all know you're a partionist. The fact you can only be for a devolved that includes the jurisdiction of NI shows this very clearly

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667166#Comment_119667166

You want to eliminate the Northern Irish identity.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667196#Comment_119667196

No Northern Ireland the jurisdiction because of its history of social failures. You cant eliminate an identity in a place that allows freedom of expression.

Can you answer now? You can only be for a devolved UI that includes the 6 county NI? No other way of devolving ireland is acceptable?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667230#Comment_119667230

Those who are Northern Irish have a place, with borders, they won't want that to change.

They well accept an external shift in allegiance from UK to Ireland, but they will want their Northern Ireland preserved as part of that change. It is the biggest challenge to nationalists to account for this.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667238#Comment_119667238

How do you know what a person who puts NI on a census form wants when it comes to a UI. You really think they all want the same thing? How do you know many of them would not want a new system of a devolved Ireland. Back it up with some factual evidence please. Does this falling identity of 19% get a veto?

This again is your ideology to back up your objective to keep NI alive. Very telling you cant consider any other devolved structure of Ireland that does not include the 6 county of NI. You want it alive as it is a symbol of British dominance and that is that exact reason why it will be put to bed should there be a UI

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667238#Comment_119667238

Please stop speaking for those of us who are Northern Irish, Blanch. We aren't some hive mind with one opinion. We exist all along a spectrum from strongly supporting Unification through to ardently opposing it.

You are in no position to tell people what those who are Northern Irish think. It is patronising in the extreme to have someone with almost zero experience with the North (usually incorrectly) telling people what we think.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667040#Comment_119667040

Why would a poll matter? Most people wouldn't know which is better. You can Google the health outcomes though and see clearly the better outcomes in the Republic

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667400#Comment_119667400

Explain this so: https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-40899188.html

The Belfast or Blind Bus to take people from Cork & Kerry here who are on endless waiting lists for cataract operations, a 30min procedure they do out in Africa. It did it's 100th trip today to a private hospital in Belfast.

Try selling that idea of a public health service to the good people of NI.

cgcsb

How long do you think NHS cataract waiting lists in the North are?

The point being that overall the system in the Republic is better, both systems are bed though by North Europe standards.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669153#Comment_119669153

The HSE is a magnitude of massive propotions more **** than the NHS

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666667#Comment_119666667

The IMF were appaled at the the way the EU stuck the knife into Ireland

Same bunch who "accidentally" triggered article 16 after all the talk of them protecting the GFA

And yet you'll find plenty of Irish still willing to lick their hole, it was ever thus I suppose, we do love being run by others.

RavenBea17b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665734#Comment_119665734

Not sure where I mentioned that Northern Ireland is a socialist utopia. I merely commented on some of the concerns that people in the North have. The Republic is one of the most expensive countries to live in within the EU, but also is considered a low tax country within the EuroZone, Delighted that parents at last won't have to pay for school books, at primary level - why has it taken until now, and why only primary - is what I would be asking my TD.

Never said it couldn't be worked out, just mentioned some of the concerns and valid points about unification including the politics, social demographic changes.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119667341#Comment_119667341

I am not claiming to tell you what you think.

However, there are plenty of opinion polls that show support for a united Ireland far below the levels of the sectarian count, and closer to the level of the census declarations of Irish-only. That leads me to draw conclusions from that at a general level which are worthy of consideration and discussion, but they can't just be rejected on the basis of a single Northern Irish individual who says that me and my friends don't think like this.

Until somebody can produce credible evidence that the Northern Irish favour the dissolution of the state they claim to belong to, a border poll for a single unitary state seems further away than ever.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669557#Comment_119669557

I mentioned the Utopia asI read plenty of posts here and on other platforms that promote the idea that the population in Northern Ireland receive better social protections and benefits than in Ireland.

It's easy to pick obvious outliers like NHS and free GPs but why ignore how the social welfare system is way ahead of the UK?

Also picking out headliners like schoolbooks which is not that big but ignore other facts such as social welfare payments being much higher in Northern Ireland than in the North.

You mention taxation, but taxation is much more progressive and fair, especially since last Friday in Ireland than in the UK

Also, this taxation is redistributed by the taxation and social protection system in much fairer way resulting in lower levels of poverty in Ireland than in the UK.

I don't understand why people ignore these?

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669815#Comment_119669815

You've literally posted, 'those who are Northern Irish have a place, with borders, they won't want that to change'. In what world is that not telling us what Northern Irish people think? It is the grand sweeping statements as if we're all hive mind that are particularly irritating, Blanch.

'Northern Irish' people have a wide range of views, some favour Unification, some strongly oppose it, some have no strong feelings on it and will vote based purely on economics. You demonstrate time and time again that you have zero actual knowledge of NI beyond what you selectively read in Slugger O'Toole.

As usual, you note a few weak correlations and then try and smash them into accordance with your own preconceived ideas. There is substantially more evidence of support for Unification in NI than you've ever presented in support of your previous Independent NI idea, or your latest love-in with a federal solution. For someone crowing for evidence, you're consistently very short on it yourself.

The last time I asked you for evidence of any substantial ground level support for NI Independence or a Federal solution, you provided me with an irrelevant opinion piece confirming that some people in NI have Northern Irish identities.

A border poll would fail tomorrow, no one is disputing this. Any poll that happens will be won on the hearts and minds of those in the middle ground, no one disputes this either. If those favouring Unification wish for it to pass, then the concerns of others outside the committed Republican circles should be taken into consideration, maybe a handful of idiots dispute this. It's the twenty steps of weak extrapolation that you blindly run off with after this that offends.

RavenBea17b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666403#Comment_119666403

The EU wasn't backing the Republic, because it is the Republic. It was because it is the EU border, so acting on behalf of the EU.

Ireland is a net contributor, so in theory has more than sufficient funds. If the government can refuse a €13 billion plus interest fine from Apple, after a two year investigation into alleged unpaid tax, then go to court again over it, with the EU to refuse, and with central EU funds already having a larger demand from other countries, it will be tougher to claim help....

Different times I know, but when West and Germany re-unified, West Germany as was, did not utilise funds, from the pre-curser to the modern EU, as there would be apart from anything else, be strings attached to it, it too was a net contributor, it's economy at the time being one if not he largest . East Germany needed heavy investment, in many differing ways from, infrastructure alone, such as roads, electrical systems, water, buildings, to name a few. Not so, with Northern Ireland.

As I have said, unification will happen, but the political changes on the island will impact the Republic, as much as they will in the North - both for the positive and the negative.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669965#Comment_119669965

It still listened to Ireland and very much behind it's opinion was very much against setting up a hard border like it has with other EU borders so I don't think it treated it like a normal case.

Also, you point about the Apple tax is completely irrelevant. The truth was that Ireland could not afford to collect that tax due to the long term implications for the economy and it was proven correct as it has won its case.

As I said , if we do ever get to the stage of Northern Ireland joining Ireland than that will be a large geopolitical event with a few years of preparation and negotiation and I'm sure the EU will be involved and there will be economic packages discussed as it's in the EU's long term interest to do so.

RavenBea17b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670008#Comment_119670008

Did I say the EU hadn't listened to the Ireland ??? I stated that the EU spoke on behalf of the EU - which it did, it being the EU border, so i takes into consideration other EU members points. This Brexistshite has caused more issues and opportunities (in a roundabout way).

I raised the Apple tax situation to point out that Ireland as a net contributor may have a tougher time, if asking for help for funds - so NOT irrelevant, but pertinent to the situation should the case be that financial assistance be asked for/required. AND I had been commenting on other posts about possible EU aid. Having lived in the North and the South, I am more than well aware of the pro's and cons of unification.

We agree that long-term, the geopolitical changes for the island of Ireland will be huge if unification occurs. Sinn Fein will certainly rock the boat for the FF & FG, plus green and independents. Interesting times ahead whatever happens.

letsseehere14

From what I can tell from whats been released, The vast majority of those saying they are Northern Irish Only under the National Identity section are from the Catholic background community.

I recon about 74% of them are from the Catholic background.

I came to this conclusion by comparing the Religious Background section, the National Identity section and the local election results from the 2019 council elections. Now thats 3 years ago. What I can see is the following;

The Irish Only, Irish and Northern Irish and 74% of the Northern Irish Only population amounts to 46% of the Population.

The identities that mention British plus the 26% of the remaining Northern Irish only population amounts to 47% of the Population.

Other national identities making up the rest.

In the 2019 Local Elections Unionists won about 44.6% of the vote and Nationalists won 41.9% of the vote (3 years ago).

In the 2022 Stormont Election Nationalist won 41.03% of the vote, Unionists won 43.48% of the vote, the remainder mostly going to Alliance or Greens.

The unionist population is older and more likely to vote (as over 65s are much more likely to vote). The nationalist population is younger, and less likely/too young to vote. Also the Alliance and Green split from Ards and East Belfast mostly being split 50/50 across the two communities.

This idea that because the Irish only % sits at 29% means a UI is far away does not make sense as the Nationalist vote in each area requires a big % of the Northern Irish only National Identity to make sense. Whereas the Protestant/British/Unionist figures make sense with a much smaller % from the NI only section. I think most would agree that the number of Catholics voting unionist and proclaiming to be British is about the same as protestants voting Nationalist and proclaiming to be Irish only. Otherwise how can Nationalists get 41% of the vote with just 30 odd % of the population.

We can see in every area the Irish or Irish&NI populations growing by huge numbers, while the amount of British mentioned and NI population dropping by huge numbers in multiple districts. Ni only just about gaining a few 100 people over 10 years while the population as a whole rose by 92K. Irish only rising by 96K, more than the population of NI rose as a whole. In some districts Irish gaining over 20K, and All British mentions and NI only losing over 23K (this was Belfast). These are seismic numbers.

In 10 years, the Irish only and Irish&NI pop will be up more, probably around the 34% mark, possibly higher if the trend is more exponential than linear. The NI only will still sit around 20% but probably with 75 to 80% of them coming from a Catholic background and most voting nationalist. Nationalist vote will be about 42%, Unionist 40% and Alliance/Greens at 18%. More Nationalist MPs than unionist, more Nationalist MLAs than Unionist. In that scenario, where much of the Alliance vote is still split evenly, with East Belfast Catholics voting strategically for Alliance and progressive Ards Protestant/none still rejecting Unionism, then a serious conversation will have to be had on reunification.

The NHS in NI is no better than the HSE, both poor. We have a better infrastructure than NI, better education, better GDP and quality of life, longer life, easier Travel, access to the EU markets, multi nationals pouring out of Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway. An argument can be put forward to the soft Unionists about how theirs and their childrens and grand childrens lives can be so much better in a UI. With a good argument put forward, positive and forward thinking, a Yes vote could be tipping that 50% mark. Bring some of them down to Galway or Limerick from Bangor or Lisburn and show them the jobs available and facilities in these small cities and theyd want a piece of that. The option to study in close to home and not England, to get a great job in Ireland not Britain and it would soften them even more.

This also doesnt take into account what may happen in Scotland and what the next 10 years holds for the UK economy. I think it is time to start planning now for a early to mid 2030s vote.

Demographic show the Unionist vote will decline, the middle gain and Nationalist rise, slower than the Irish population though. I would love to see the nationality break down by age group. I think those numbers would be stark for the PUL community. When the see their % in the 30s for the 0-14 age.group and the Catholic/Irish group heading towards 60%.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119666292#Comment_119666292

Yeah, Bryson is some clown.

He seems to think it’s 1910 or something. Expects a quick online rant to have Ulster Covenant Mark II on the way.

Few in the PUL community give a toss about him.

A poor man’s Ian Paisley.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119665105#Comment_119665105

Well it seems that the idea of a devolved NI in a united Ireland has now come on to the main stage.

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/10/01/border-poll-should-aim-for-largest-majority-possible-not-50-plus-one-varadkar-says/

"He outlined a number of what he described as “models which can work” in a unitary state, which included that “Northern Ireland could continue with a devolved parliament, with cross-community power sharing, its own courts, education system, police and health service.”

Booing broke out among a section of the audience as he finished this sentence, adding that “North-South bodies and east-west co-operation would continue” and should be strengthened and deepened."

Of course he got booed, he was challenging the belligerent exclusionary nationalists. Interesting thoughts on the majority as well.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697299#Comment_119697299

An "all inclusive unified Ireland" is the belligerent exclusionary nationalist's way of excluding unionists.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119697323#Comment_119697323

And continued partition is exclusionary partitionists' way of excluding those who support the GFA, and those who wish to see a genuinely United Ireland instead of a half assed continuation of the previous 100 years.